News Dons ASADA scandal (Latest: Pg 101 - CAS verdict. Guilty, 12 months.)

[Baltimore Jack]

How do you split the blame for this debacle?

What percentage blame is ASADA?
What percentage blame is Essendon?
What percentage blame is AFL?

** Numbers must add up to 100%

ASADA = 5%
Essendon = 80%
AFL = 15%

 

[danielnajdek]

They've been hit with a lettuce leaf.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...g-was-deplorable-20150331-1mc8hi.html?stb=twt

Drug record keeping 'deplorable'.

Tribunal could not be comfortably satisfied that the players took the banned drug thymosin beta-4

Tribunal noted that "it is the responsibility of the club to ensure that complete and accurate records are kept".

Consent forms "alarmingly inadequate".

far too much reliance on Mr [Stephen] Dank

It's clear the players had no actual knowledge of the substance with which they were injected.

"There is evidence from a player he was injected with a substance from a brown vial that Mr Dank always told him was thymosin." But Jones said that was of "no significant probative value".

comfortably satisfied that biochemist Shane Charter had bought thymosin beta-4

some inference in correspondence from Alavi that he had compounded the drug.

The tribunal was not sure that Dank had received the drug in his capacity as an Essendon representative.

The tribunal rejected the notion that he had used the legal variant, thymosin alpha.

...

Hird, who said on Tuesday he had apologised five times throughout the ordeal, could not confirm what substances were given to the players, saying it hadn't been his role as a coach to choose the supplements.

...

"There are questions that will never be answered," McLachlan said.

"There are some people who say they know what they had given and I think the players would love to know.

"From what I have read and I need to be careful because it is a confidential document, what we can say what was established through the tribunal is that theyweren't comfortably satisfied it was thymosin beta-4. I don't think they have established what it was."

 

[vjknight]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...g-was-deplorable-20150331-1mc8hi.html?stb=twt

Drug record keeping 'deplorable'.

Tribunal could not be comfortably satisfied that the players took the banned drug thymosin beta-4

Tribunal noted that "it is the responsibility of the club to ensure that complete and accurate records are kept".

Consent forms "alarmingly inadequate".

far too much reliance on Mr [Stephen] Dank

It's clear the players had no actual knowledge of the substance with which they were injected.

"There is evidence from a player he was injected with a substance from a brown vial that Mr Dank always told him was thymosin." But Jones said that was of "no significant probative value".

comfortably satisfied that biochemist Shane Charter had bought thymosin beta-4

some inference in correspondence from Alavi that he had compounded the drug.

The tribunal was not sure that Dank had received the drug in his capacity as an Essendon representative.

The tribunal rejected the notion that he had used the legal variant, thymosin alpha.

...

Hird, who said on Tuesday he had apologised five times throughout the ordeal, could not confirm what substances were given to the players, saying it hadn't been his role as a coach to choose the supplements.

...

"There are questions that will never be answered," McLachlan said.

"There are some people who say they know what they had given and I think the players would love to know.

"From what I have read and I need to be careful because it is a confidential document, what we can say what was established through the tribunal is that theyweren't comfortably satisfied it was thymosin beta-4. I don't think they have established what it was."

You forgot to add the consent forms stating Thymosin was going to be injected,and agreed to.

It wasn't TA as you stated, but TB4 was bought, compounded and paid.

Expect dank to be found guilty of giving TB4 in a few weeks.

But that's all ok.

Our game truly sucks right now.

 

[ColinMochrie]

At this point I could not give two shits about the afl season. Absolute disgrace that the bombers have gotten away with not just cheating, but endangering the health of players.

Even if WADA intervene, AFL is forever tainted.

Seems drugs combined with a paper shredded is the key to success now. However Saad gets done for a goddamn energy drink.

Corrupt and broken for me right now. I am sure as the season goes on I will get back into it, but I won't be watching any AFL apart from collingwood for a good while.

You have to wonder if this happened to the saints or dogs would the result have been the same.

 

[jerry springer]

The very thing that got Essendon off (shredding evidence) will the thing that brings them down when the law suits begin

 

[jmac70]

The very thing that got Essendon off (shredding evidence) will the thing that brings them down when the law suits begin

I think there is a good chance that ASADA or WADA will appeal.

 

[jerry springer]

I think there is a good chance that ASADA or WADA will appeal.

i think there is no chance unfortunately. I would love this to go to CAS

 

[Lockyer24]

My respect for the AFL is at its lowest point, ever.

Love the club but the competition I have no time for, and the more market that A- League takes away the better.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Just reading one of the articles in The Age, it seems the standard of proof was set very high and more similar to that of beyond reasonable doubt. Despite purchasing TB-4 from the Chinese manufacturer (and having this confirmed as what they produce) and also having the molecular weight determined as TB-4 and it could not reasonably be TA-1 or Thymomodulin, the tribunal accepted that it still could not be satisfied that this was, in fact, TB-4.

I guess everyone is happy to walk away just accepting that thymo-something was used but it definitely wasn't banned or performance enhancing.

 

[MarkT2]

Then why did Hird get Suspended for a Season?

It's not hard Dave.
Essendon/Hird etc got punished for overseeing a regime that resulted in an inability to prove what did or didn't go into their players.
The players did not get found guilty of taking any specific banned substance because there was a lack of evidence due to the inability to prove what did or didn't go into them.
You could argue (and I believe) that the first issue for which Essendon and officials were punished was deliberate and designed to make the second issue hard to prove but the result was far from surprising to me - as I have said all along.

There is no real evidence that any specific player too any specific banned substance. The reason there is no evidence is why Essendon were punished.

Unless there are undisclosed facts or testimony this is where it ends.

Well not having Enough Evidence is a Good Excuse by the AFL

It really has little to do with the AFL. ASADA prosecuted the case and a judge and some tribunal members heard the evidence.

 

[MarkT2]

Ashamed of what? Of not being guilty? Of ASADAs incompetence? They have every right to celebrate as the club was found not guilty.

No, the club was found guilty. The players were found not guilty.

 

[MarkT2]

Just reading one of the articles in The Age, it seems the standard of proof was set very high and more similar to that of beyond reasonable doubt. Despite purchasing TB-4 from the Chinese manufacturer (and having this confirmed as what they produce) and also having the molecular weight determined as TB-4 and it could not reasonably be TA-1 or Thymomodulin, the tribunal accepted that it still could not be satisfied that this was, in fact, TB-4.

I guess everyone is happy to walk away just accepting that thymo-something was used but it definitely wasn't banned or performance enhancing.

I don't think it is quite that simple. What did, for example, Jobe Watson receive? Was it the same as Patrick Ryder? The answer to both questions can at best be an educated guess, even if there is a good probability that TB was in fact supplied to someone that supplied Essendon something.

You don't keep records of things you don't want used as evidence.

 

[Lord Wilberforce]

ASADA prosecuted the case and a judge and some tribunal members heard the evidence.

Former County Court judge I believe. No longer member of the judiciary. They love to appoint former judges to give the appearance of a court, but really it could be anyone.

 

[MarkT2]

My respect for the AFL is at its lowest point, ever.

Love the club but the competition I have no time for, and the more market that A- League takes away the better.

What is it that you think the AFL should have done? Remember that an independent judge sat on the panel.

 

[MarkT2]

Former County Court judge I believe. No longer member of the judiciary. They love to appoint former judges to give the appearance of a court, but really it could be anyone.

But it isn't anyone and it isn't the AFL. It is a huge leap to infer that he was a bunny.

 

[Lord Wilberforce]

But it isn't anyone and it isn't the AFL. It is a huge leap to infer that he was a bunny.

Agree, just need to be careful about using the term "judge". Might confuse some people. It was an independent panel that reviewed the evidence. Essendon sabotaged this case, not the AFL.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Then why did Hird get Suspended for a Season?

Because there was a lack of controls around the "supplements" program.

 

[Maggie5]

Gee, just watching ASDA press conference, not sure that this is all over yet.

 

[morelli89]

I just hope in the future there is a proper test for TB-4 and they go back and test the essendope players samples again and then take the whole club down for the mockery they have turned the AFL into

 

[stevo86]

I dont particularly care the players got off, they are 50/50 for mine in the guilt department.. yes they should have asked why they were doing it off location, but they were just getting told what to do and probably told it was legal. Everyone in the football department should have been sacked but.. including pretty boy.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

I don't think it is quite that simple. What did, for example, Jobe Watson receive? Was it the same as Patrick Ryder? The answer to both questions can at best be an educated guess, even if there is a good probability that TB was in fact supplied to someone that supplied Essendon something.

You don't keep records of things you don't want used as evidence.

Well reading that article, it kind of is that simple. The case seems to fall down at the stage when Alavi had the material compounded. The tribunal couldn't be satisfied that it was TB-4. This is before it needs to be determined that each player received TB-4. Proving each individual player received TB-4 would have seemed to be the most difficult task and likely where the case would have fallen down. However, it seems the tribunal wasn't even satisfied beforehand of what the substance was. But they were satisfied it was not TA-1 and the Thymomodulin argument was never pursued.

 

[TradeDraft]

My respect for the AFL is at its lowest point, ever.

Love the club but the competition I have no time for, and the more market that A- League takes away the better.

Well the A-League has it’s best Chance to catch up with the AFL. With tons of Fans Sick of the Amateur Hour that is the AFL

 

[Old Spice]

Such an eye opener to see the type of justifications people make for behaviour, but parents knowing about it and saying nothing! What the hell is that?

 

[TradeDraft]

Gee, just watching ASDA press conference, not sure that this is all over yet.

Bloody Hope not