Opinion Don't mention the war (a.k.a. The same old arguments)

[Go Hoops]

Thompson took us to finals in his first season. It would be three years before we were back there again but this time around, he had constructed his own team which would inevitably go onto be a dominant force.
That was all the work of coaching staff. They developed and backed in players to play a role. There was none of this alternating between two or there positions at any one time. They had their jobs to do on the day and they stuck to it.



And you are here telling everyone the Geelong side of 2011 couldn't have won it without the coach



Explain to me how that Geelong side of 2012 could be down by 50 points to Fremantle in the qualifying final?



Many of those players have either stagnated or gone backwards in a hurry.
Smedts, GHS, Murdoch, Bews, Kersten, Simpson and you even look at the guys who switched clubs and instantly improved under a new coaching staff . . . Varcoe, Hunt, Hamling etc.

Hunt? Wrong! GHS? Wrong! Murdoch? Wrong! Hamling? Too early to say. Kersten, Simpson? Injury plagued would have done no better elsewhere. Smedts and Bews? You have a case.

 

[Bobby_]

Hunt? Wrong! GHS? Wrong! Murdoch? Wrong! Hamling? Too early to say. Kersten, Simpson? Injury plagued would have done no better elsewhere. Smedts and Bews? You have a case.

Hunt just played the best football of his career for Richmond. I am not sure how you could possibly dispute this.
Murdoch stagnated and is currently rumored to be trade bait.
Horlin-Smith played how many games last year then how many this year?
Hamling is best 22 in a team which just played finals. I'd say on that basis alone, he's done something he couldn't do under Geelong's coaching staff.

 

[Bobby_]

One of the many furtfies that surround footballers is the so-called acclaim 'he's a premiership player'. There are many players who got that medal by default.

he was still a solid performer in every one of the grand finals he played in.
20 hit-outs, 3 clearances in half a game of footy is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[fpm84]

Hunt just played the best football of his career for Richmond. I am not sure how you could possibly dispute this.
Murdoch stagnated and is currently rumored to be trade bait.
Horlin-Smith played how many games last year then how many this year?
Hamling is best 22 in a team which just played finals. I'd say on that basis alone, he's done something he couldn't do under Geelong's coaching staff.

Hunt may have played career best football but that ain't saying much. Check out the Richmond board where he was their whipping boy every week. Or perhaps rewatch the elimination final where his opponent was near BOG.

Murdoch didn't stagnate at all - this was his career best season. He's not 'rumoured to be trade bait.' The rumour is that Adelaide is keen because they think he'd add value to their best 22 and that we don't want to trade him. Quite the opposite to being trade bait.

GHS struggled with injury all season. It happens sometimes. Doesn't mean you completely write off someone's career. He showed enough in 2014 to think he's worth persisting with.

Hamling got a handful of games, good luck to him. Perhaps he's the next Brian Lake headed for multiple flags or perhaps he's the next Tim Callan. A bit too early to call, wouldn't you think?

Interesting that you list those players but fail to mention how the likes of Duncan, Motlop, Blicavs, Guthrie and Caddy - and the even younger likes of Thurlow, Bews, Kolodjasnij, Lang and Gregson- have shown plenty under Scott.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

At what point do we start blaming the injuries on our coaching/fitness staff and not just bad luck??? It's been four years of horrendous injuries now.

I don't know how you can blame the coaching staff for our injuries. Do you honestly think that they say anything to our fitness staff other than get the players as fit and injury free as possible ?

with regards to the fitness staff they were mostly sacked at the end of the last year .It does look like some progress may of been made with regards to some long term injured players this year.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yeah and we all know the reason for this. Thompson couldn't get the players to buy into a long kicking game to beat the press because Scarlett and the likes were too stubborn. All parties involved have admitted this. So why do you ignore it?

No this is just something Thompson had said to try and justify why he walked out on the club , broke his contract and went to Essendon .

The idea that he said to the players lets just reduce the number of handballs, assess the situation , get more numbers around the ball and use the wings more often and they said no were just going play on handball at all cost up the middle is ridiculous . If this was true all it says was that Bomber was very weak man .

The idea to that we didn't have a reason to change until after 2010 is ridiculous , this stupid game plan cost us the 2008 premiership.

 

[Bobby_]

Interesting that you list those players but fail to mention how the likes of Duncan, Motlop, Blicavs, Guthrie and Caddy - and the even younger likes of Thurlow, Bews, Kolodjasnij, Lang and Gregson- have shown plenty under Scott.

It's not interesting at all mate.
Kolodjashnij ended up playing because injuries forced the coaches hand.
Bews has been in and out of the team and we ended up reverting back to Bartel in the back-line instead by seasons end.
Guthrie and Duncan are simply irrelevant because they showed from a very early stage (VFL) they were always going to be solid contributors in the AFL. If they were recruited by Richmond or Adelaide they would be no different to the players we see right now.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Thompson took us to finals in his first season. It would be three years before we were back there again but this time around, he had constructed his own team which would inevitably go onto be a dominant force.
That was all the work of coaching staff. They developed and backed in players to play a role. There was none of this alternating between two or there positions at any one time. They had their jobs to do on the day and they stuck to it.



And you are here telling everyone the Geelong side of 2011 couldn't have won it without the coach



Explain to me how that Geelong side of 2012 could be down by 50 points to Fremantle in the qualifying final?



Many of those players have either stagnated or gone backwards in a hurry.
Smedts, GHS, Murdoch, Bews, Kersten, Simpson and you even look at the guys who switched clubs and instantly improved under a new coaching staff . . . Varcoe, Hunt, Hamling etc.

1.Your re-writing history , 7 years into Bomber Thompsons coaching career you know how many finals he had won ? 2
Most people considered us to be blue a collar workman like side before 2007 , the only A grade player we had was Scarlett

2.The Geelong Football club and the AFL have changed over the past 15 years , we are not going to go about building our next premiership side in exactly the same way as we build our last premiership side.

3.The idea that players like Ablett,Johson and Bartel wouldn't of been superstars under most other coaches is less believable than the Easter bunny and the tooth-fairy.

4.I don't think that Scott was the only coach who could of coached us to a premiership in 2011, just like I don't think Clarkson is the only coach who could of coached Hawthorn to the last 3 premierships.

5. The Geelong side of 2010 was a much better side than the Geelong side of 2012. Ablett,Ottens,Ling,Milburn and Mooney all gone .Bartel,Kelly,Chapman,Corey and Scarlett all past their best.

6.Players usually don't develop in a straight linear line , they have their ups and downs. Do you think our players all had great years in 2006 ?

 

[Seeds]

No this is just something Thompson had said to try and justify why he walked out on the club , broke his contract and went to Essendon .

The idea that he said to the players lets just reduce the number of handballs, assess the situation , get more numbers around the ball and use the wings more often and they said no were just going play on handball at all cost up the middle is ridiculous . If this was true all it says was that Bomber was very weak man .

The idea to that we didn't have a reason to change until after 2010 is ridiculous , this stupid game plan cost us the 2008 premiership.

Nope some of the players have also admitted it. Its not just come from Thompson.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

It's not interesting at all mate.
Kolodjashnij ended up playing because injuries forced the coaches hand.
Bews has been in and out of the team and we ended up reverting back to Bartel in the back-line instead by seasons end.
Guthrie and Duncan are simply irrelevant because they showed from a very early stage (VFL) they were always going to be solid contributors in the AFL. If they were recruited by Richmond or Adelaide they would be no different to the players we see right now.

Bobby you have to forget about how we build our premiership side 15 years ago .Things have changed since then .

Geelong have decided and this comes from the very top of the club , to complete a gradual rebuild over a number of years. This means were not going to play a stack of young players at once .We are gradually introducing young players into our side .

Its also very naïve to think that all our young players just require games , if they perform on the training track , in the VFL and when they get into the side than they will get plenty of games given too them .

Our young players must work and earn there spots. This will provide them with the incentives to become the best players possible rather than simply being gifted games.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Nope some of the players have also admitted it. Its not just come from Thompson.

any links ?

I have a friend that works for the club and I have never heard this before ,other from Thompson .

Kind of says something about Thompson that his coaching a side that using a game plan that he doesn't like ? kind of makes it even worse. All he had to do was just some small changes ,I find hard to believe the players refused to accept.

 

[cats_09]

Bobby you have to forget about how we build our premiership side 15 years ago .Things have changed since then .

Geelong have decided and this comes from the very top of the club , to complete a gradual rebuild over a number of years. This means were not going to play a stack of young players at once .We are gradually introducing young players into our side .

Its also very naïve to think that all our young players just require games , if they perform on the training track , in the VFL and when they get into the side than they will get plenty of games given too them .

Our young players must work and earn there spots. This will provide them with the incentives to become the best players possible rather than simply being gifted games.

Your last point is so true.

It's amazing how many supporters think player/s should debut in yr 1 or yr 2 just because we should get games into them, regardless if the player is ready or not; and it seems now days that some youngsters feel the same, especially when you look at the 2nd & 3rd yr players requesting trades as they feel they aren't being given the opportunities they deserve.

I heard it mentioned during yesterday's game, and just checked the stats, Taylor Duryea had to wait until his 4th year on the Hawks list to debut. He was pick #69 in the 2009 draft, and he didn't debut for them until Rnd 3 2013, and since his debut he has gone on to play 63 games of a possible 74 for the Hawks. And it doesn't appear he had any significant injury issues early in his career either with the number of VFL games he played during those early yrs - 2013 he played 17 VFL games (6 VFL seniors, 11 VFL reserves), in 2011 it was 12 VFL games (11 VFL seniors, 1 VFL reserves), and in 2012 he had 1 game in the VIC Development League & 15 in VFL seniors; and he has actually played a minimum of 1 VFL game a season since his AFL debut also.

Seems like the Hawks didn't treat him with kiddy gloves or just gift him games because it would be the nice thing to do and would give him a reason to stay on the list - he was actually made to earn his spot in not only the AFL side, but also the VFL senior side, and from the looks of things he didn't request a trade during those early years, instead he re-signed on a 2yr deal after his initial contract and worked on his game until he forced his way into the side.

What is so wrong with some of our youngsters being told to do the same - just because someone is taken in the 1st or 2nd round doesn't mean they will be ready for football in their 1st or 2nd season, no matter what we may think from the outside or what the individual thinks themselves; there are times where we actually have to put our trust in the coaching staff that when a player isn't selected to play senior footy that there is a reason, and hope that those players are being given advice and help on the areas of their game they need to work on, and that those players are actually taking that advice and working on their game; not just looking at players who are being drafted after them and expecting that they should be ahead in the pecking order just because they were drafted first.

 

[David the Cat]

Your last point is so true.

It's amazing how many supporters think player should debut in yr 1 or yr 2 just because we should get games into them, regardless if the player is read or not; and it seems now days that some youngsters feel the same, especially when you look at the 2nd & 3rd yr players requesting trades as they feel they aren't being given the opportunities they deserve.

I heard it mentioned during yesterday's game, and just checked the stats, Taylor Duryea had to wait until his 4th year on the Hawks list to debut. He was pick #69 in the 2009 draft, and he didn't debut for them until Rnd 3 2013, and since his debut he has gone on to play 63 games of a possible 74 for the Hawks. And it doesn't appear he had any significant injury issues early in his career either with the number of VFL games he played during those early yrs - 2013 he played 17 VFL games (6 VFL seniors, 11 VFL reserves), in 2011 it was 12 VFL games (11 VFL seniors, 1 VFL reserves), and in 2012 he had 1 game in the VIC Development League & 15 in VFL seniors; and he has actually played a minimum of 1 VFL game a season since his AFL debut also.

Seems like the Hawks didn't treat him with kiddy gloves or just gift him games because it would be the nice thing to do and would give him a reason to stay on the list - he was actually made to earn his spot in not only the AFL side, but also the VFL senior side, and from the looks of things he didn't request a trade during those early years, instead he re-signed on a 2yr deal after his initial contract and worked on his game until he forced his way into the side.

What is so wrong with some of our youngsters being told to do the same - just because someone is taken in the 1st or 2nd round doesn't mean they will be ready for football in their 1st or 2nd season, no matter what we may think from the outside or what the individual thinks themselves; there are times where we actually have to put our trust in the coaching staff that when a player isn't selected to play senior footy that there is a reason, and hope that those players are being given advice and help on the areas of their game they need to work on, and that those players are actually taking that advice and working on their game; not just looking at players who are being drafted after them and expecting that they should be ahead in the pecking order just because they were drafted first.

Top drawer post cats_09 ... thats exactly how it works....and how it should work. A lot of the game is played between the ears, and some of these kids aren't ready mentally for the game at the top level, and it doesn't do the psyche much good to be gifted a game when you're not ready and then given an absolute bath when you get there. Developing players isn't an easy gig, and in some it takes time...a good example using Dureya...and I think Kolo is another...given time to develop, get some senior VFL experience, so that when he got his chance he was equipped to take it. Lang is another example...I'm hoping Smedts is another.

Not all players are ready at 19-20...and many play their best footy at 26-30...the "ageism" on this board is incredibly wide of the mark IMO.

 

[one eyed cat]

Hunt may have played career best football but that ain't saying much. Check out the Richmond board where he was their whipping boy every week. Or perhaps rewatch the elimination final where his opponent was near BOG.

Murdoch didn't stagnate at all - this was his career best season. He's not 'rumoured to be trade bait.' The rumour is that Adelaide is keen because they think he'd add value to their best 22 and that we don't want to trade him. Quite the opposite to being trade bait.

GHS struggled with injury all season. It happens sometimes. Doesn't mean you completely write off someone's career. He showed enough in 2014 to think he's worth persisting with.

Hamling got a handful of games, good luck to him. Perhaps he's the next Brian Lake headed for multiple flags or perhaps he's the next Tim Callan. A bit too early to call, wouldn't you think?

Interesting that you list those players but fail to mention how the likes of Duncan, Motlop, Blicavs, Guthrie and Caddy - and the even younger likes of Thurlow, Bews, Kolodjasnij, Lang and Gregson- have shown plenty under Scott.

A good post fpm84, and it seems there are a few posters who claim to be Cats fans who have nothing positive to say ever, full of negativity, and I can think of 3 of them that their names start with the letter B.

 

[one eyed cat]

Your last point is so true.

It's amazing how many supporters think player should debut in yr 1 or yr 2 just because we should get games into them, regardless if the player is read or not; and it seems now days that some youngsters feel the same, especially when you look at the 2nd & 3rd yr players requesting trades as they feel they aren't being given the opportunities they deserve.

I heard it mentioned during yesterday's game, and just checked the stats, Taylor Duryea had to wait until his 4th year on the Hawks list to debut. He was pick #69 in the 2009 draft, and he didn't debut for them until Rnd 3 2013, and since his debut he has gone on to play 63 games of a possible 74 for the Hawks. And it doesn't appear he had any significant injury issues early in his career either with the number of VFL games he played during those early yrs - 2013 he played 17 VFL games (6 VFL seniors, 11 VFL reserves), in 2011 it was 12 VFL games (11 VFL seniors, 1 VFL reserves), and in 2012 he had 1 game in the VIC Development League & 15 in VFL seniors; and he has actually played a minimum of 1 VFL game a season since his AFL debut also.

Seems like the Hawks didn't treat him with kiddy gloves or just gift him games because it would be the nice thing to do and would give him a reason to stay on the list - he was actually made to earn his spot in not only the AFL side, but also the VFL senior side, and from the looks of things he didn't request a trade during those early years, instead he re-signed on a 2yr deal after his initial contract and worked on his game until he forced his way into the side.

What is so wrong with some of our youngsters being told to do the same - just because someone is taken in the 1st or 2nd round doesn't mean they will be ready for football in their 1st or 2nd season, no matter what we may think from the outside or what the individual thinks themselves; there are times where we actually have to put our trust in the coaching staff that when a player isn't selected to play senior footy that there is a reason, and hope that those players are being given advice and help on the areas of their game they need to work on, and that those players are actually taking that advice and working on their game; not just looking at players who are being drafted after them and expecting that they should be ahead in the pecking order just because they were drafted first.

It seems to me some young players these days believe their good enough to play senior footy after a year, probably believe all the hype from being the best player in their previous teams and recruiters telling how good they will be, just seems like a lot of young players requesting trades these days, quoting not enough senior game time at this club. Most clubs want them to bulk up a bit firstly, wait until they are dominating in the vfl or where ever they are playing, until they are banging down the door because they are now good enough. If it takes four years, I applaud their patience and persistence.

 

[Bobby_]

A good post fpm84, and it seems there are a few posters who claim to be Cats fans who have nothing positive to say ever, full of negativity, and I can think of 3 of them that their names start with the letter B.

Really couldn't care what you think to be honest.
I'm afraid to say it but this is simply going to be a case of I told you so all over again.

There are about 10 or so supporters on here, usually the same people who enjoy giving each other a little tickle who continually applaud the Geelong football club in virtually every aspect of their business.
Facts are, we are losing young merging talent and replacing them with injury riddled list plodders (Clark, Stanley, McIntosh, Delaney, Blease) just to name a few.

This page clearly illustrates many Geelong supporters frame of mind. The bloke who is trying to convince everyone (fpm84) that Taylor Hunt hasn't done much at his new new club is a perfect example of this. Trying to insinuate playing for a team which actually finished well above us on the ladder doesn't mean much is quite fitting really. Great insight there fpm
You do realize Richmond are a better football team than Geelong right now, correct?
Let me guess . . . you predicted Geelong would be playing finals and Clark would be booting 40 goals?

lol keep up the circle jerking guys.

 

[Cataholic]

Really couldn't care what you think to be honest.
I'm afraid to say it but this is simply going to be a case of I told you so all over again.

There are about 10 or so supporters on here, usually the same people who enjoy giving each other a little tickle who continually applaud the Geelong football club in virtually every aspect of their business.
Facts are, we are losing young merging talent and replacing them with injury riddled list plodders (Clark, Stanley, McIntosh, Delaney, Blease) just to name a few.

This page clearly illustrates many Geelong supporters frame of mind. The bloke who is trying to convince everyone (fpm84) that Taylor Hunt hasn't done much at his new new club is a perfect example of this. Trying to insinuate playing for a team which actually finished well above us on the ladder doesn't mean much is quite fitting really. Great insight there fpm
You do realize Richmond are a better football team than Geelong right now, correct?
Let me guess . . . you predicted Geelong would be playing finals and Clark would be booting 40 goals?

lol keep up the circle jerking guys.

I respect your opinion Bobby, and look forward to your posts on various topics, but is it necessary to be derogative of your fellow posters?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

A good post fpm84, and it seems there are a few posters who claim to be Cats fans who have nothing positive to say ever, full of negativity, and I can think of 3 of them that their names start with the letter B.

The avatar username combo is absolute gold mate

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Your last point is so true.

It's amazing how many supporters think player should debut in yr 1 or yr 2 just because we should get games into them, regardless if the player is read or not; and it seems now days that some youngsters feel the same, especially when you look at the 2nd & 3rd yr players requesting trades as they feel they aren't being given the opportunities they deserve.

I heard it mentioned during yesterday's game, and just checked the stats, Taylor Duryea had to wait until his 4th year on the Hawks list to debut. He was pick #69 in the 2009 draft, and he didn't debut for them until Rnd 3 2013, and since his debut he has gone on to play 63 games of a possible 74 for the Hawks. And it doesn't appear he had any significant injury issues early in his career either with the number of VFL games he played during those early yrs - 2013 he played 17 VFL games (6 VFL seniors, 11 VFL reserves), in 2011 it was 12 VFL games (11 VFL seniors, 1 VFL reserves), and in 2012 he had 1 game in the VIC Development League & 15 in VFL seniors; and he has actually played a minimum of 1 VFL game a season since his AFL debut also.

Seems like the Hawks didn't treat him with kiddy gloves or just gift him games because it would be the nice thing to do and would give him a reason to stay on the list - he was actually made to earn his spot in not only the AFL side, but also the VFL senior side, and from the looks of things he didn't request a trade during those early years, instead he re-signed on a 2yr deal after his initial contract and worked on his game until he forced his way into the side.

What is so wrong with some of our youngsters being told to do the same - just because someone is taken in the 1st or 2nd round doesn't mean they will be ready for football in their 1st or 2nd season, no matter what we may think from the outside or what the individual thinks themselves; there are times where we actually have to put our trust in the coaching staff that when a player isn't selected to play senior footy that there is a reason, and hope that those players are being given advice and help on the areas of their game they need to work on, and that those players are actually taking that advice and working on their game; not just looking at players who are being drafted after them and expecting that they should be ahead in the pecking order just because they were drafted first.

We have blooded plenty of young players in the last few years but some want it to have been more aggressive, possibly at the short term detriment to team performance. In that case what would the chances have been of convincing Motlop to stay this year rather than leave? Less than what they were given the path we have gone down I'd imagine.

 

[Bobby_]

I respect your opinion Bobby, and look forward to your posts on various topics, but is it necessary to be derogative of your fellow posters?

grow some balls mate. If you think that is derogatory, try reading the Collingwood board or the Hawthorn board once in a blue moon. They call each other flogs and ****wits and there's no crying or whinging to the moderators for using the words circle jerking

It's any wonder our supporters are the most timid and quietest in the competition.

 

[Cataholic]

grow some balls mate. If you think that is derogatory, try reading the Collignwood board or the Hawthorn board once in a blue moon. They call each other flogs and ****wits and there's no crying or whinging to the moderators for using the words circle jerking

It's any wonder our supporters are the most timid and quietest in the competition.

I have no interest in reading other boards, and trust me, my balls are just as big as yours.

I didn't 'cry' or 'whinge' but merely suggested a little more respect wouldn't go astray.

Your posting is noticeably far more aggressive than it used to be. Just an observation.

Anyhow, I'll leave it there. Nothing to be gained by a spat.

 

[Lana]

On the Geelong Forum, many people fall into two separate yet unequally powerful circlejerks, the pessimists who attack the club and the optimists who prosecute those offenders, these are their stories.

 

[one eyed cat]

Really couldn't care what you think to be honest.
I'm afraid to say it but this is simply going to be a case of I told you so all over again.

There are about 10 or so supporters on here, usually the same people who enjoy giving each other a little tickle who continually applaud the Geelong football club in virtually every aspect of their business.
Facts are, we are losing young merging talent and replacing them with injury riddled list plodders (Clark, Stanley, McIntosh, Delaney, Blease) just to name a few.

This page clearly illustrates many Geelong supporters frame of mind. The bloke who is trying to convince everyone (fpm84) that Taylor Hunt hasn't done much at his new new club is a perfect example of this. Trying to insinuate playing for a team which actually finished well above us on the ladder doesn't mean much is quite fitting really. Great insight there fpm
You do realize Richmond are a better football team than Geelong right now, correct?
Let me guess . . . you predicted Geelong would be playing finals and Clark would be booting 40 goals?

lol keep up the circle jerking guys.

I didn't mention any names, why would think I was talking about you.

 

[one eyed cat]

The avatar username combo is absolute gold mate

TY very muchly NSFB..

 

[David the Cat]

I respect your opinion Bobby, and look forward to your posts on various topics, but is it necessary to be derogative of your fellow posters?

Really?