Dustin Martin v Dyson Heppell

[Collingwoodity]

Comparing shots on goal is pretty laughable given the amount of time Martin played up forward compared to Heppell. Martin is FWD/MID and Heppell is DEF/MID - its just what their respective teams need of them . That said i do agree that the next step forward for Heppell is to have more score involvements. However I think Heppell has more improvement in him than Martin - He's younger and he's shown a continual ability to keep improving year to year (really disciplined player who you can tell works hard to remedy any of his flaws each year). The idea that Martin has a lot of improvement in him seems based off hope more than anything - i think he will mature a bit but i don't think his onfield presence will change greatly. I've always regarded him as a very physically mature player from the moment he set foot on the field - those types don't typically have the same degree of improvement scope in them.

I don't think its clear cut who is better anyway so I have no problem with people preferring Martin's x-factor attributes to Heppell's consistency. It will be interesting to see how this comparison evolves in the next few years.

So is it pretty laughable to compare disposals and contested possessions given the amount of time Heppel played midfield compared to Martin?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I think Martin has the potential to become a better and (much) more damaging player than Heppell, but at the moment Heppell is delivering more consistently.

I get the feeling that you know what you will always get with Heppell, but Martin could take it to another level and surpass him. Or he could become a 'what could have been.'

 

[Tiger_man322]

Can't we just leave it at "they are both good players?"

As we should all be asking ourselves

 

[AFEV]

Impossible to split them really, neither team would trade their guy for the other guy, and that's the way it should be. They're entirely different players, Martin isn't - and likely won't ever be - a pure midfielder, and Heppell is nothing but. Martin is a powerful burst player, while Heppell is almost omnipresent.

People question the professionalism of Martin, yet his dedication to the came is evidenced by his continued development since he entered the league. It feels like an extremely unfair criticism, and these minor indiscretions came from a misguided young man that has seemingly reformed. His fitness and consistency were real issues, however he has clearly committed himself to the off-field work as they have both improved drastically. Although he can still have a tendency to float in and out of games, he is an impact player after all. As for being a 's**t bloke', well, it has not been enough to detract from his on-field performance thus far, and we still idolise and acknowledge the achievements of other drop-kicks like Carey, Fevola, etc.

Heppell is far more consistent not only from game to game but within games. He is a more constant presence throughout a match but rarely overwhelms, likely where the 'vanilla' tag is derived from. He has become Essendon's premier midfielder, but originally drew a lot of criticism over his inside game, and was seemingly a low-ceiling average-paced receiver. In 2014 he was in the top 20 for total and average contested possessions a game, which is a testament to his dedication to improve himself.
What is probably most endearing about Hairpell are his intangible values, similarly for Martin it must be the games he literally wins off his own boot.

I hope that I will get to see both of them celebrating on the dais some day as I love both players, and hope they get the opportunity to enjoy the reward they would want more than any monetary or individual offerings.

 

[DontArgue4]

Impossible to split them really, neither team would trade their guy for the other guy, and that's the way it should be. They're entirely different players, Martin isn't - and likely won't ever be - a pure midfielder, and Heppell is nothing but. Martin is a powerful burst player, while Heppell is almost omnipresent.

People question the professionalism of Martin, yet his dedication to the came is evidenced by his continued development since he entered the league. It feels like an extremely unfair criticism, and these minor indiscretions came from a misguided young man that has seemingly reformed. His fitness and consistency were real issues, however he has clearly committed himself to the off-field work as they have both improved drastically. Although he can still have a tendency to float in and out of games, he is an impact player after all. As for being a 's**t bloke', well, it has not been enough to detract from his on-field performance thus far, and we still idolise and acknowledge the achievements of other drop-kicks like Carey, Fevola, etc.

Heppell is far more consistent not only from game to game but within games. He is a more constant presence throughout a match but rarely overwhelms, likely where the 'vanilla' tag is derived from. He has become Essendon's premier midfielder, but originally drew a lot of criticism over his inside game, and was seemingly a low-ceiling average-paced receiver. In 2014 he was in the top 20 for total and average contested possessions a game, which is a testament to his dedication to improve himself.
What is probably most endearing about Hairpell are his intangible values, similarly for Martin it must be the games he literally wins off his own boot.

I hope that I will get to see both of them celebrating on the dais some day as I love both players, and hope they get the opportunity to enjoy the reward they would want more than any monetary or individual offerings.

one of the better posts ive seen on bigfooty

well done

 

[Hate]

Impossible to split them really, neither team would trade their guy for the other guy, and that's the way it should be. They're entirely different players, Martin isn't - and likely won't ever be - a pure midfielder, and Heppell is nothing but. Martin is a powerful burst player, while Heppell is almost omnipresent.

People question the professionalism of Martin, yet his dedication to the came is evidenced by his continued development since he entered the league. It feels like an extremely unfair criticism, and these minor indiscretions came from a misguided young man that has seemingly reformed. His fitness and consistency were real issues, however he has clearly committed himself to the off-field work as they have both improved drastically. Although he can still have a tendency to float in and out of games, he is an impact player after all. As for being a 's**t bloke', well, it has not been enough to detract from his on-field performance thus far, and we still idolise and acknowledge the achievements of other drop-kicks like Carey, Fevola, etc.

Heppell is far more consistent not only from game to game but within games. He is a more constant presence throughout a match but rarely overwhelms, likely where the 'vanilla' tag is derived from. He has become Essendon's premier midfielder, but originally drew a lot of criticism over his inside game, and was seemingly a low-ceiling average-paced receiver. In 2014 he was in the top 20 for total and average contested possessions a game, which is a testament to his dedication to improve himself.
What is probably most endearing about Hairpell are his intangible values, similarly for Martin it must be the games he literally wins off his own boot.

I hope that I will get to see both of them celebrating on the dais some day as I love both players, and hope they get the opportunity to enjoy the reward they would want more than any monetary or individual offerings.

Finally we have an Essendon supporter who isn't so delusional.

 

[eth-dog]

Heppell could win the Brownlow and Norm Smith next year and Richmond fans would still say Martin.

Heppell is in the top 15 midfielders in the game and top 20 players in the game. Martin wouldn't be in the top 50 players in the game.

 

[Blueyboy74]

Heppell could win the Brownlow and Norm Smith next year and Richmond fans would still say Martin.

Heppell is in the top 15 midfielders in the game and top 20 players in the game. Martin wouldn't be in the top 50 players in the game.

Could say the same in reverse.

Top 20 players in the competition ... get your hand off it

 

[eth-dog]

Could say the same in reverse.

Top 20 players in the competition ... get your hand off it

Name 20 better.

 

[DontArgue4]

Ablett, franklin, kennedy, watson, fyfe, danger, boak, mitchell, roughead, mundy, pendles, selwood, griffen, hodge, jack, n riewoldt, cotchin, Sloane, McVeigh, sandilands..... I could keep going

That's without the unbelievable bias and delusion shown by eth

 

[Donkey Chop]

I would take Martin.

He's just so much more damaging then Heppell. When Martin gets the ball he plays long and direct and will hurt you with most possessions.

Heppell is all about maintaining possession so always looks to take the safe option, thus kicks sideways and backwards a lot. He's a very fine player but could be much better if he played more direct.

 

[Ambrosia]

Ablett, franklin, kennedy, watson, fyfe, danger, boak, mitchell, roughead, mundy, pendles, selwood, griffen, hodge, jack, n riewoldt, cotchin, Sloane, McVeigh, sandilands..... I could keep going

That's without the unbelievable bias and delusion shown by eth

If you base it on 2014 sits above quite a few of the blokes in that list.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Heppell could win the Brownlow and Norm Smith next year and Richmond fans would still say Martin.

Heppell is in the top 15 midfielders in the game and top 20 players in the game. Martin wouldn't be in the top 50 players in the game.

I used to like you.

Name 50 better

 

[Richo83]

Heppell could win the Brownlow and Norm Smith next year and Richmond fans would still say Martin.

Heppell is in the top 15 midfielders in the game and top 20 players in the game. Martin wouldn't be in the top 50 players in the game.

Pretty much all the media outlets, who placed Martin in the top 50 based on voting disagree with you.

Number of players to average 25 touches or more a game and a goal a game in 2014:

Ablett, Beams, Fyfe, Parker, Selwood, Deledio, Harvey, Martin.

All the rest are in the top 50, why isn't Martin? And before you say "he's not consistent enough, doesn't get enough of the ball" Martin's 2014 average possessions per game is about the same as Parker and Selwood. He averaged more possessions, goals and goal assists per game than Dangerfield in 2014.

 

[HolyWars]

Martin.

Beast.

 

[Bailey01]

Heppell the better player but Martin more electric

 

[eth-dog]

Ablett, franklin, kennedy, watson, fyfe, danger, boak, mitchell, roughead, mundy, pendles, selwood, griffen, hodge, jack, n riewoldt, cotchin, Sloane, McVeigh, sandilands..... I could keep going

That's without the unbelievable bias and delusion shown by eth

Heppell's better than all of the bolded.

I used to like you.

Name 50 better

Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker, Jacobs, Beams, Rockliff, Murphy (debatable but Murphy slightly ahead IMO), Pendlebury, Watson, Heppell, Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow, Sandilands, Pavlich, Hawkins, Selwood, Duncan, Taylor, Mackie, S Johnson Ablett, Ward, Griffen, Mumford, Cameron, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Roughead, I Smith, Gunston, Breust, Birchall, Gibson, N Jones, Swallow, Cunnington, Goldstein, Harvey, Ryder, Boak, Schulz, Gray, Cotchin, J Riewoldt, N Riewoldt, Parker, Hannebery, McVeigh, JP Kennedy, Franklin, Jack, Priddis, JJ Kennedy. I haven't counted but I'd guess that's more than 50.

Pretty much all the media outlets, who placed Martin in the top 50 based on voting disagree with you.

Number of players to average 25 touches or more a game and a goal a game in 2014:

Ablett, Beams, Fyfe, Parker, Selwood, Deledio, Harvey, Martin.

All the rest are in the top 50, why isn't Martin? And before you say "he's not consistent enough, doesn't get enough of the ball" Martin's 2014 average possessions per game is about the same as Parker and Selwood. He averaged more possessions, goals and goal assists per game than Dangerfield in 2014.

Big deal.

Because they're better than him.

 

[Bazzar]

Heppell could win the Brownlow and Norm Smith next year and Richmond fans would still say Martin.

Watson won a Brownlow over Cotchin and we still say Cotchin.

 

[eth-dog]

Watson won a Brownlow over Cotchin and we still say Cotchin.

Well that's because you're delusional.

 

[Richo83]

Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker, Jacobs, Beams, Rockliff, Murphy (debatable but Murphy slightly ahead IMO), Pendlebury, Watson, Heppell, Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow, Sandilands, Pavlich, Hawkins, Selwood, Duncan, Taylor, Mackie, S Johnson, Ablett, Ward, Griffen, Mumford, Cameron, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Roughead, I Smith, Gunston, Breust, Birchall, Gibson, N Jones, Swallow, Cunnington, Goldstein, Harvey, Ryder, Boak, Schulz, Gray, Cotchin, J Riewoldt, N Riewoldt, Parker, Hannebery, McVeigh, JP Kennedy, Franklin, Jack, Priddis, JJ Kennedy. I haven't counted but I'd guess that's more than 50.

Martin is better than the players bolded. He's also younger than many of the players I haven't bolded. He also had fairly similar stats to many of the other players on that list, like Hannebery and Dangerfield. And seriously, Jones? Duncan? Murphy? Man you're reaching.

 

[Richo83]

Heppell's better than all of the bolded.

Heppell better than Hodge? Suuuuuure he is.

 

[eth-dog]

Martin is better than the players bolded. He's also younger than many of the players I haven't bolded. He also had fairly similar stats to many of the other players on that list, like Hannebery and Dangerfield. And seriously, Jones? Duncan? Murphy? Man you're reaching.

Murphy, Duncan and Mackie are debatable but there is no way he's better than Rockliff, Tex, Barlow, Mumford, Cotchin, Jack, etc. Jones is seriously underrated. Priddis just won the ******* Brownlow.

Heppell better than Hodge? Suuuuuure he is.

Hodge is a gun, pretty much the only player at Hawthorn that I don't hate but Heppell is better now.

 

[Richo83]

Murphy, Duncan and Mackie are debatable

Debatable is being very kind. Murphy has been solid these past few years, but is little more. Duncan is good, but only one eyes cats fans would choose him over Martin. Mackie is a floating third tall who is protected by his fellow backmen. He's the kind of player who would look half the player he is in a poor side.

but there is no way he's better than Rockliff,

Gets a lot of stats, but isn't that damaging.

Tex

Is this the same Walker who has only kicked 50 goals or more in a season once? Or is this a different Tex?

Barlow

Good solid player, but isn't penetrating enough.

Mumford,

Look, they're not even comparable. But saying that Mumford is better than Martin is like saying that Pyke or Maric is. You're putting big stock in a ruck position.

Cotchin,

Buddy, I watch these every game they play. Martin can do what Cotchin can do, Cotchin can't do what Martin can. Martin wins.

Jack, etc.

Martin gets the ball more and is four years younger.

Jones is seriously underrated.

Oh please, now you're overrating him. He's a good foot soldier but he's been only slightly better than Daniel Cross.

Priddis just won the ******* Brownlow.

So did Shane Woewodin.

Hodge is a gun, pretty much the only player at Hawthorn that I don't hate but Heppell is better now.

Is this the same Hodge who has won three premiership medals and two Norm Smiths?

 

[timtamWB]

Oh please, now you're overrating him. He's a good foot soldier but he's been only slightly better than Daniel Cross.

I love Crossy.

But Jones is leaps and bounds better than him. And at his peak? Well Cross won our B&F in 2008, one of our prelim years. And that was in a team with guys like Lake, Murphy, Boyd, Griffen, Johnson, Aker and Cooney (Brownlow year). Not too shabby company.

 

[eth-dog]

Gets a lot of stats, but isn't that damaging.



Is this the same Walker who has only kicked 50 goals or more in a season once? Or is this a different Tex?



Good solid player, but isn't penetrating enough.



Look, they're not even comparable. But saying that Mumford is better than Martin is like saying that Pyke or Maric is. You're putting big stock in a ruck position.



Buddy, I watch these every game they play. Martin can do what Cotchin can do, Cotchin can't do what Martin can. Martin wins.



Martin gets the ball more and is four years younger.



Oh please, now you're overrating him. He's a good foot soldier but he's been only slightly better than Daniel Cross.



So did Shane Woewodin.



Is this the same Hodge who has won three premiership medals and two Norm Smiths?

Carried Brisbane's midfield for 2 years, similar to what Watson did under Knights

I was unaware of that stat. I'll concede that one.

Mumford is arguably the best ruckman in the league when fit. Absolute gun, not at all comparable to Pyke or Maric

Martin has the potential to be better than Cotchin, but Cotchin has delivered better than Martin.

Jack is still better. Stats aren't the be all and end all. Jack is the 3rd or 4th best mid at Sydney, he'd be the best at Richmond comfortably.

Nathan Jones is far more than a foot soldier. Saying that show's how much you're underrating him.

Priddis carries the West Coast midfield. Give him better support and they're genuine contenders.

Is Myke Pyke better than Paddy Ryder because he's won more flags? Some very stupid logic there.