Dylan Shiel...

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Topkent

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Aug 29, 2010
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How we would feel about losing Hogan is probably about the same as GWS would feel about losing Shiel or Treloar. They'd be gutted. There needs to be a way where the player can't just walk to the bottom club and their former club get zero compensation. Not sure how though...

GWS losing shiel or treloar would suck for them but I'm sure the other 5 billion first rounders they have will keep them happy

If we lose hogan to the dockers we would have to get nat fyfe and a first round atleast for me to not give up on afl
 

Topkent

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I don't get this. Why is it overs for a top 4 pick for Aish? He's got 2 years of development, looks a jet and was originally taken with pick 7.

Well he will have 2 years at the end of the year but because he's only had 1 decent season and now wants to leave

You have to ask if we would be better taking pick 4 to the draft and finding another mentally tough kid not one that wants to run away
 
Build the side around tough Victorian kids like Brayshaw and promote Geelong-style mateship. It's the only way to go these days, as seen by the amount of guys taking the coin and going home. If we get another top 5 pick this year; take the best Vic kid.
 

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Build the side around tough Victorian kids like Brayshaw and promote Geelong-style mateship. It's the only way to go these days, as seen by the amount of guys taking the coin and going home. If we get another top 5 pick this year; take the best Vic kid.
You don't pass up the best available talent because they are from interstate, you draft them and make it damn hard for them to leave.

Best available, all day, every day.
 

Cannon82

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You don't pass up the best available talent because they are from interstate, you draft them and make it damn hard for them to leave.

Best available, all day, every day.

As long as they're not mental. Not sure what the point of all the interviews etc they do is if it turns out Gysberts is an arrogant, work-shy little prick and Lucas Cook has head mates or whatever it was that led us to jettison him in short order without so much as a sniff of a first team chance.
 
You don't pass up the best available talent because they are from interstate, you draft them and make it damn hard for them to leave.

Best available, all day, every day.
The difference between the best available and the best Vic kid available is unlikely to be big at all. Happy to take a chance if the deficit is huge, but not if its negligible or a toss of the coin. All of our recent top picks have been Vic kids, Tyson too considering the way that we got him. Lets face it, the current climate is built around offering big dollars to lure guys home. The fewer players we have in that basket, the better.
 

Marc_Remillard

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Kind of. When 90% of the AFL players in the league come from Vic, WA, SA and Tas, it's in the best interest of the league to try to ensure the non-traditional states' teams stay competitive so they don't lose their fickle fans to Super Rugby, rguby leeeegegegegeg and lawn bowls. Yes, it's about making the AFL money. That means it's also about creating development pathways for players, and QLD and NSW don't have your TAC cup or strong local leagues (NEAFL not there, yet, if ever) for the kids to cut their teeth in. It's a bit of an advantage having an academy - no one seemed that fussed by it until this Heeney bloke turned up. It's a disadvantage having most of your draftees crying into their pillows every night being away from home.

This is a billion dollar competition, it shouldn't be a charity organisation that constantly changes the rules to ensure certain clubs remain in the finals over the expense of others. As for your comment about the academy and Heeney, I've been against it from the beginning so that comment is really irrelevant. Having said that I think that the two new teams should have them for development, but not Sydney and Brisbane. It's such an obvious scam.
 

Marc_Remillard

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My concern is for the bigger picture not specifically the Giants. It's seeing first and second year players dictating where they want to play. I'm concerned for when the powerful top end clubs are able to clear cap space when a gun player retires and throw that money at a future star that a struggling club is investing in to rise up the ladder. Young player takes the easier road and the struggling team starts from scratch again. Like the constant talk - whether pie in the sky or not - of a certain purple Western Australian club into a key forward we are building our future around. That's what concerns me.

It's the changing shape of the game and it's only going to get worse. The AFL sped up the process when they introduced GWS & GCS but it's here to stay
 

Cannon82

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This is a billion dollar competition, it shouldn't be a charity organisation that constantly changes the rules to ensure certain clubs remain in the finals over the expense of others. As for your comment about the academy and Heeney, I've been against it from the beginning so that comment is really irrelevant. Having said that I think that the two new teams should have them for development, but not Sydney and Brisbane. It's such an obvious scam.

It doesn't ensure they remain in the finals. Have a look at Brisbane and all that marvellous success they've enjoyed since 2003. It's nice that you've been against it 'from the very beginning', but no one at an AFL club seemed to give two shits until an academy produced a player they actually would have liked to draft.

So we can agree it's a billion dollar competition, or shall we call it a business? In Vic, SA, WA and Tassie, there's no genuine competition to AFL. In NSW and QLD, there is. So what's a good businessman to do but try to help those teams battling it out with other codes stay competitive? From a club point of view, absolutely, it's not fair. From the AFL's point of view, they're trying to make further inroads into non-traditional AFL states, and that's a good thing.

What are you suggesting should happen? Shut down the Swans and Brisbane academies? Or keep them but don't give the Swans or Brisbane any priority to select them?
 

Marc_Remillard

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What are you suggesting should happen? Shut down the Swans and Brisbane academies? Or keep them but don't give the Swans or Brisbane any priority to select them?

Let me put it this way. How can you have a professional sporting competition where the rules of the competition are made to favour a couple of clubs?

To answer your question, yes, those two academies should be immediately shut down. Or give every other club exactly the same opportunity. Neither is going to happen of course because the AFL is corrupt. This has been going on with those two clubs for decades. Call it COLA, zone selections, killing off Fitzroy and now the academies. All different names but they all have one goal, to artificially keep these two clubs as competitive as possible. In the past it's been only two clubs so it hasn't been too much of a drain to the rest of the league, but now it's four. We support Melbourne and the reality is that we will never see the ultimate success because of the concessions given to the Northern clubs. If you've already accepted that then there's not much point continuing this debate.

Heeney has kicked 4 goals so far tonight, it's unbelievable that Sydney should have direct access to the best talent over and above the rest of the competition.
 

Marc_Remillard

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As for Brisbane, the AFL manufactured 3 premierships for them. Melbourne hasn't won one since 1964. That pisses me off and now the AFL are going to do anything they can to get them back in the finals.

* this s**t
 

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thetank

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Aug 1, 2009
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As for Brisbane, the AFL manufactured 3 premierships for them. Melbourne hasn't won one since 1964. That pisses me off and now the AFL are going to do anything they can to get them back in the finals.

**** this s**t


Melbourne have had their chances, draft picks galore. Certainly can't feel hard done by, unlike say a Bulldogs or Roos.
 
Melbourne have had their chances, draft picks galore. Certainly can't feel hard done by, unlike say a Bulldogs or Roos.
I partially agree with both of you. Brisbane got to select star players from two clubs and then have a good run in the draft, so they were built up to have a good run. But we also did much a lot of drafting up as well
 

Cannon82

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Let me put it this way. How can you have a professional sporting competition where the rules of the competition are made to favour a couple of clubs?

Quite easily. We seem to have a very professional sporting competition at the moment. By your logic we should abolish father son rules as well. How is a salary cap fair? Surely teams with more fans and more money should be able to make the most of that natural advantage... etc etc etc. Have you noticed that I don't care that it's not overly fair? It's not a huge game-changing advantage. You're carrying on like they get these blokes for free.

The reason everyone is complaining about it is Sydney got to pick up Heeney for their first round pick, which was 17 or 18. Something everyone also complained about was us getting pick 3 for Frawley.

To answer your question, yes, those two academies should be immediately shut down.

Aren't you a good egg - how dare they develop players in the area. The reason the academies are there is due to the shortage of local talent and lack of decent development leagues. No shortage of those in the traditional AFL states.

If every club had an academy, do you know who would be most likely to lose out? Us. Hawthorn, Collingwood, Essendon, etc are going to have more pull than us and much better track records at bringing on talent. We'd be back in the old times when kids and their parents could up and move into the zone of the club they wanted to be at. So in terms of everyone having an academy, no one having an academy and the northern states having the academies, I think they have the best option for the game in general.

Brisbane winning all those Premierships probably had a lot to do with the Fitzroy players they picked up and absolutely sweet * all to do with their academy.

Anyway, let's leave it there, Mr Chippy McShoulders.
 

Marc_Remillard

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By your logic we should abolish father son rules as well.

How did you come to this conclusion? The father/son rules is available to every club and I've already stated that I think the academies are good for GWS and GCS which is completely different to my above argument.

If you truly think it's the same logic then you clearly don't understand the logic. Read it again and have another try.

Edit: I like how you've tried to slip in a personal insult, really, there's no point debating anything with you. Go and calm down kid.
 
As for Brisbane, the AFL manufactured 3 premierships for them. Melbourne hasn't won one since 1964. That pisses me off and now the AFL are going to do anything they can to get them back in the finals.

**** this s**t
They bought us a coach, sacked a bunch of guys with their coin, gave us a PP and were generous with compensation for Scully and Frawley. None of this inferiority shite.
 

Marc_Remillard

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They bought us a coach, sacked a bunch of guys with their coin, gave us a PP and were generous with compensation for Scully and Frawley. None of this inferiority shite.

Because we were below AFL standard, what they've done for us is to get us to an acceptable AFL level. How many finals have we played in the last 5 years?

As for the 'their coin' comment. We received the same as the other clubs, what they did last year was to bring this years' payment forward a year.

The public have been conditioned to accept a loaded competition and it will never change, clubs like Melbourne will always struggle and the AFL will continue to change the rules to make sure the northern clubs have massive advantages. Where else in the world does this happen in a major sporting competition?
 
Because we were below AFL standard, what they've done for us is to get us to an acceptable AFL level. How many finals have we played in the last 5 years?

As for the 'their coin' comment. We received the same as the other clubs, what they did last year was to bring this years' payment forward a year.

The public have been conditioned to accept a loaded competition and it will never change, clubs like Melbourne will always struggle and the AFL will continue to change the rules to make sure the northern clubs have massive advantages. Where else in the world does this happen in a major sporting competition?
We were given a $2m bailout, where's your evidence that it was brought forward?
 

Marc_Remillard

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We were given a $2m bailout, where's your evidence that it was brought forward?

Check the figures this year, they will be reduced.

If you want further proof simply look at our fixture year after year. The main reason why we have no money is because of the fixture.
 
The difference between the best available and the best Vic kid available is unlikely to be big at all. Happy to take a chance if the deficit is huge, but not if its negligible or a toss of the coin. All of our recent top picks have been Vic kids, Tyson too considering the way that we got him. Lets face it, the current climate is built around offering big dollars to lure guys home. The fewer players we have in that basket, the better.

I agree.

In fact the vast majority of the best players in the country will be VIC kids.

But, I don't see a huge factor for us being the go-home factor... let's face it, Melbourne is a great city to live in for a footy player.
 

Cannon82

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How did you come to this conclusion? The father/son rules is available to every club and I've already stated that I think the academies are good for GWS and GCS which is completely different to my above argument.

If you truly think it's the same logic then you clearly don't understand the logic. Read it again and have another try.

Edit: I like how you've tried to slip in a personal insult, really, there's no point debating anything with you. Go and calm down kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father–son_rule#Player_eligibility
Have a read. South Australian clubs have one father son recruit between them. Brisbane have had one through Fitzroy. GWS and Gold Coast are going to be miles off as well. Top 7 teams in terms of quantity of father son recruits are all Victorian clubs. Not exactly fair across the competition, is it?

Take it as a personal insult if you like. It very much comes across as though you have a big chip on your shoulder regarding this.
 
May 17, 2004
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We should have the cashola, and be in a reasonable position trading wise ie we are going to get another high draft pick this year by the look of it. Problem is so will Carlton. I don't think Richmond will be able to get a deal done that satisfies GWS.
Box seat are Saints and Blues. If I was him though I'd come to either us or the Dogs if he wants success. Otherwise stay put.
These players generally get to where they want, read o rourke and Taylor Adams . RFC are very keen on choco s future son in law and we expect to get him ,
 

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