Eastern FL - Division 2 2017

Bobby Beecroft

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 25, 2003
5,572
1,812
Junction Oval Goalsquare
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions THFC
Everything has gone to plan & fallen into place. Fantastic that the opposition is the local rivals, great for footy in a challenging municipality. All things being well this will be a great day for the Sharks, culminating in a long awaited return to 1st Division.

For those heading out I hope you enjoy the day & may the best team win - BWS may have softened by 5.00pm (possibly even earlier).
 

Scribe

Cancelled
May 26, 2005
2,323
301
Elwood
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Just saw the scores from yesterday. So 4 of Doncaster's best players were ex-AFL in Thompson, Johnson, Fiora and Scotland. How many junior games for Donny amongst that quartet? :rolleyes:
 

smy1305

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 27, 2011
6,354
2,587
Buderim
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Yeah terrible practise...:rolleyes: There would only be what.... Every club in vic that win a premiership this year in a half decent comp that do the same thing.... .??
 

Scribe

Cancelled
May 26, 2005
2,323
301
Elwood
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Yeah terrible practise...:rolleyes: There would only be what.... Every club in vic that win a premiership this year in a half decent comp that do the same thing.... .??

Not in Premier division of the VAFA competition - which is consistently ranked #1 in metropolitan Melbourne.

Mercenaries and money is destroying local footy.
 

Levelnuts

Draftee
Apr 16, 2015
6
6
AFL Club
Carlton
Not in Premier division of the VAFA competition - which is consistently ranked #1 in metropolitan Melbourne.

Mercenaries and money is destroying local footy.

Let me guess, another one that believes no transactions are done in the VAFA ?????

Local footy has never been better, has been an absolute pleasure watching those 4 over the last 3 years and they are great to have around the club. Don't believe me ? come down to the Harp in Kew today and you'll see all 4 of them celebrating just as much as any AFL win they had
 

Scribe

Cancelled
May 26, 2005
2,323
301
Elwood
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Let me guess, another one that believes no transactions are done in the VAFA ?????

Local footy has never been better, has been an absolute pleasure watching those 4 over the last 3 years and they are great to have around the club. Don't believe me ? come down to the Harp in Kew today and you'll see all 4 of them celebrating just as much as any AFL win they had

Incorrect. Scotland at the ripe old age of 34, retired from AFL last year, and now has taken the spot of a Doncaster junior in a senior premiership team.

Try selling that to an u17 or u19 kid who is wondering if there's a pathway to senior footy for him.

I think you will find not a single player from Old Trinity (won the Premier section 2nd semi final and now plays off in the GF) has either not been from the school, or had a mate from the school. No ex-AFL, VFL senior or NFL/EFL players there. No need to pay "under the table".
 

Dee Snider

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 17, 2006
7,869
7,329
Burning in Hell
AFL Club
Collingwood
As a local its great to see both Doncaster and East Doncaster fight it out for a Division 1 spot. Fantastic to see either make it to Division 1.

There's plenty of spots available to kids good enough to play Div 1 Scribe. Not sure if you have watched a whole lot of Metro Div 1 football but regardless of the competition (EFL, NFL, EDFL, WRFL, VAFA etc) - they don't simply hand them out to make kids feel good.
 

smy1305

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 27, 2011
6,354
2,587
Buderim
AFL Club
Gold Coast
"Taken the spot of a junior in a senior premiership team".....
I am assuming you know that the Sharks would have won without Scotland in the side and this poor old 17yr old in?

What Scotland (& the other 3) have done, is provide an opportunity for Doncaster(and the associated juniors) to now compete in Div 1. What a greta thing this is.
Is it 1985 that was the last time in Div 1 LN / BB?

Well done to you guys - the off field people should not be forgotten when it comes to the tough task of winning premierships.

Unfort our group got knocked over in the big one this year... :(
 

Bobby Beecroft

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 25, 2003
5,572
1,812
Junction Oval Goalsquare
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions THFC
1991 - if my memory serves me correctly.

I must say that I find it extremely disappointing that a line coach of a VFL club finds the need to come on such a forum casts such unfounded aspersions about players that have played at the highest level. To throw around words such as mercenaries and lines such as money is destroying local football clearly insinuating that 4 particular players fit within these descriptions is unfounded with clearly no knowledge, and to be honest cowardly.

Tough enough for stand alone VFL clubs to succeed but you do wonder if this is the image that the Coburg Football Club wish to portray within the wider football community.

I think I will stop here & not stoop to such levels, but in all honesty Fraser I hope you display far stronger leadership in your role than you have in these parts. Your club & players deserve better than that.
 

Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 1, 2006
9,275
16,637
Victoria
AFL Club
Essendon
Well done to Doncaster on a great win. Wasn't the B&F Lumicisi, a local?

Who cares where the guys are imported from, they bond and play as a team to win the flag and that's all that matters.

Spruiking VAFA as simply young guys coming through to seniors is complete nonsense. Perhaps some of the players and coaches are kept in the dark, but of the 5-6 guys I know who played VAFA in the top 3 divisions, all of them were on deals outside the club, but related to the club.

You only have to watch which ex-AFL players play for which club and then wait to see where the kids go to school....
 

Scribe

Cancelled
May 26, 2005
2,323
301
Elwood
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I accept I've used a broad brush in the last line Bobby, but in answer to your question, no the "mercenaries" comment wasn't directed at those players specifically.

The swift demise of such clubs such as Scoresby, East Burwood and Donvale in the EFL, Parkside in the WRFL, and the success of the likes of Aberfeldie in the EDFL and Deer Park in the WRFL have created horribly lopsided grand finals and uncompetitive leagues where the key to success is getting the largest war chest from your sponsors (often a wealthy single benefactor) and paying stupid money to play local footy.

Do you honestly think these four guys would have played at Doncaster for $500 a game? I heard Thompson on the radio saying the key factor in his picking a club to play at in 2015 was they needed a dominant midfield which could kick the ball accurately to his advantage as (at age 37), he couldn't run more than 10-15m!

Please don't use the fact I'm coaching at VFL level as somehow excluding me from being entitled to express an opinion (and I accept its a strong one) on what's occurring at local level. It also isn't fair to suggest it's a reflection on my coaching ability or how I represent my club either.

Getting back to my main point Deer Park won their third flag in a row paying $400k plus to players - this wasn't happening four years ago, but the main sponsor was backing Maribyrnong Park prior to that. They win an EDFL flag, backs are slapped all around, then he pulled his money out, players move on in huge numbers and now they battle to remain competitive in the top grad.

Aberfeldie won their first flag in ages on a player budget of $450k. Angus Graham lobs on their doorstep mid season because he is sick of travelling to Albury - bang kicks 7 goals in an embarrassingly lopsided hammering of Greenvale. Clubs are paying local footy players more than $150-200k above the salary cap at VFL level and in my view it's ridiculous. No wonder AFL Victoria are stepping in with the points system and salary caps.

You yourself Bobby have tiptoed over to the EDFL thread this year and make a few "nudge nudge" comments about Pascoe Vale securing players mid season for primary financial grounds, so you know what I'm talking about.

We are getting multiple 100 point plus beltings week in/week out in the top divisions of suburban footy because the money gets stockpiled at a few clubs who pull out the chequebook and entice players from neighbouring clubs across on the promise of $50-$100 more a game and the chance to playing with these ex-AFL nomads.

How does that develop a long term sustainable club culture? Are you saying by getting into Division 1 (partly) on the back of four ex-AFL players (three of whom will most likely retire), that it puts Doncaster in a strong position to compete with Balwyn, Norwood, Vermont, etc.? Frankly, I have my doubts unless they can build on this through proper junior development and RETAIN their best juniors with the carrot of Div 1 senior football for those willing to be patient and work hard to play the best possible football try can.

Why did I say "mercenaries" at all? Well the fact is player movement off season, en masse, continues and is escalating. In 2014, heaps of kids jumped ship from Donvale when it appeared money was tough to raise and the dominos started falling. They simply follow the lead of all these other players - pick the club that gives me the best deal and pull in that jumper. FYI - Doncaster told Donvale it wouldn't approach any of the 30-odd who held firm until March. Magically 4 boys ended up at training and signed on. Two remained for this year and two moved on. Donvale was gutted and now sits as a shell of its former self propping up the Div 4 ladder. Raw nerves all round if you ask me - and yes, I did coach those remaining 20-odd kids who stayed at Donvale in 2014, and am glad they have at least been able to take the field for Donvale in the EFL once again in 2015.

So yes - maybe it's not the case that that Fiora, et al are "mercenaries" and if you re-read the posts, it should be clear that this comment was made in response to another poster claiming that EVERY competition was like this, and (I infer he meant) everyone is doing it so that makes it OK. I used my old VAFA club as an example which disproves that theory. The next line was, as I said earlier a comment directed more at suburban footy as a whole, not Doncaster FC specifically.

No doubt I have identified these guys as a high profile quartet to highlight the deeper malaise that has totally transformed local footy (country even more so) into something I find far less grass roots than it should be.

So if I have caused offence to Doncaster FC people (specifically you Bobby) then that wasn't my intention, and for that I apologise. I just hate what I have recently seen/experienced happening to local footy, and hope the moves to
introduce points/salary cap succeed in remedying what AFL Victoria have identified as a huge problem at sub-VFL level footy.

Let's face it, if/when it comes in to play at local level, clubs will have to focus more on junior development and retention in order to be successful won't they?

As it should be...
 
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Billy the Lid

Cancelled
Feb 12, 2014
363
354
AFL Club
Richmond
The EDFL, WRFL and EFL Div 1 grand finals demonstrate everything that is wrong with suburban football at the moment. It’s no longer a tribal battle between suburbs; it’s a battle of chequebooks and the fattest one wins.
 

Worm4

Premiership Player
May 14, 2001
3,512
3,651
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Macleod just won the northern league and not one ex afl player amongst the group. In fact , their success was based on the back of a strong junior development program. Funny that.
Reading what some clubs are paying upwards of 400k is quite laughable.
Macleod's would have been a quarter of that . Chequebook footy doesnt always guarantee success.
 

Billy the Lid

Cancelled
Feb 12, 2014
363
354
AFL Club
Richmond
Macleod just won the northern league and not one ex afl player amongst the group. In fact , their success was based on the back of a strong junior development program. Funny that.
Reading what some clubs are paying upwards of 400k is quite laughable.
Macleod's would have been a quarter of that . Chequebook footy doesnt always guarantee success.

You will see I did not mention the NFL in my post and good on Macleod. However a model based on junior development was scrapped long ago but the other suburban comps. Don’t know much about the EDFL but would suggest that very few of Balwyn and Deer Parks premiership 22 played juniors for those clubs. In most cases the biggest cheque book still wins.
 

smy1305

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 27, 2011
6,354
2,587
Buderim
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Interesting - talking to an old fossil who is involved with a club in one of the Ballarat subsidary leagues the other day - his comment was that if they have to rely on juniors to come through and play then they are stuffed - won't even field a side bc there literally isn't enough juniors in their area to sufficiently supply their A grade team. The points system will have an affect but it will negatively affect those clubs that rely on recruiting guys in just to put a side on the paddock..

Scribe - don't disagree with your comments re money and mercenaries - absolutely terrible the stories you hear re the way blokes change clubs these days BUT maybe a blanket statement by me to say EVERY team but i would suggest 95% of premiership teams in half decent comps will go down this track this year. I thought you were having a crack at Doncaster as being one of the few that do this..

As for Donvale - sad yep but they were right at the forefront of such behaviour throwing cheque books around with the best of them 20 years ago.
 

Fatboy35

Debutant
Jan 17, 2007
146
28
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The EDFL, WRFL and EFL Div 1 grand finals demonstrate everything that is wrong with suburban football at the moment. It’s no longer a tribal battle between suburbs; it’s a battle of chequebooks and the fattest one wins.

A very good comment, IMO so true. Hopefully the the EDFl, WRFL and EFL really get behind the Points and salary cap system and we can see some positive changes. The question remains are these league administrations brave enough to force lasting change?
 

Scribe

Cancelled
May 26, 2005
2,323
301
Elwood
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Nathan Thompson confirmed as going back to play at Kyneton for 2016.

I realise Doncaster are now in Div 1, but it's arguably more relevant given this thread's earlier discussion.
 

Bobby Beecroft

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 25, 2003
5,572
1,812
Junction Oval Goalsquare
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
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Brisbane Lions THFC
Confirmed going back, Nathan & his family have relocated. Really not sure the point being made or the issue of a family heading back to their roots.
Clearly I am missing something that at least one other can see.
 

Dave Trotter

Rookie
Apr 15, 2015
37
11
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
East Ringwood
How are the Sharks looking Bobby. Do you think they can be competitive in Division 1 in 2016?
 

Bobby Beecroft

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 25, 2003
5,572
1,812
Junction Oval Goalsquare
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Brisbane Lions THFC
Could have asked in 1st Division thread Dave, been waiting a long time for this. ;)

Difficult to judge given the only game we see annually in Div 1 is generally the Grand Final. Recruiting coming along pretty well. Will have a better idea come practice matchs, but as we know they are not the be all & end all.

Not a great response but it is an honest one. Club is playing Cards close to chest at this point.
 

CliffMcTainshaw

Premiership Player
Apr 11, 2015
4,113
4,970
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Hawthorn
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Cill Chainnigh
Gday Bob, I've been told Michael Fogarty, a Footscray Premiership player in 2014 is going to Doncaster, is that true?
 
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