EDFL Premier Division

[barfly]

In answer to your question 'ItsAllAboutMe', a successful club structure in my opinion would have to be the structure in which the current reigning Premiership team of any one year implemented, in the relevant division in which they competed in, and yes, I agree that having people who are capable of networking to encourage sponsors and 'white knights' to invest funds would most probably be the absolute key factor in most cases in a successful structure, because without the necessary funds it's pretty tough to be competitive at the pointy end of the season.

SUCCESS IS SUCCESS. Not many people remember which club comes 2nd, 3rd or 4th for that matter.

In my opinion, there is a difference between a quality CLUB structure and a successful CLUB structure, but, it's only an opinion.

'YOU GET WHAT YOU PLAN FOR'

'INTERESTING TIMES AHEAD FOR SOME CLUBS'

Shadowmaster your very much like a showbag full of s**t and no value most on here post decent info unlike your rubbish now move along peanut

 

[Shadow Master]

Shadowmaster your very much like a showbag full of s**t and no value most on here post decent info unlike your rubbish now move along peanut

Sally and Matt took their dog Spot for a walk to the park, whilst at the park Matt kicked the ball for Spot to go fetch, once Spot had exhausted his energy levels, Sally, Matt and Spot returned home.

There is a little story that a 'barfly' who resides in a tent might just be able to decipher as decent info!

 

[BlueJet]

Now that we've all gotten past the procession of bullshit..

Believe that former Western Bulldog and Carlton defender Mark Austin will commit to Aberfeldie very shortly. Would be a great pick up as he would be in the top 3 defenders and also a top bloke to boot ..... Originally a South Australian who has resisted offers to return to the SANFL. Also heard a highly rated VAFA premiership player from Uni Blacks has also committed to Aberfeldie. Brock McLean still a chance to return to his junior club but Port Melbourne have offered the Norm Goss grandstand and Deer Park FC have offered their "suburb" to get him !!!!!

They'd be some pretty handy additions if they do eventuate.
Would you be able to name the Uni Blacks player by any chance?

 

[williguls]

Disagree as you will then find the standard of country footy will drop there are heavy investigations due to large payments that the ato is involved and especially when it's advertised so readly like on these sights of players getting a gorilla a week or 40,000 or even a 100,000 it can't work unless it's across the board works in WA
So guess it can here

Just because a points system is involved, doesn't necessarily mean less money will be paid out, clubs will still have the same budget.

Players worth minimal points could possibly demand double what they are now, as they know how important they are to the club for not taking up many points and the absolute guns of the comp could ask for 100k plus and still get it, if the clubs still have the money in the budget to spend

 

[shagshouli]

Just because a points system is involved, doesn't necessarily mean less money will be paid out, clubs will still have the same budget.

Players worth minimal points could possibly demand double what they are now, as they know how important they are to the club for not taking up many points and the absolute guns of the comp could ask for 100k plus and still get it, if the clubs still have the money in the budget to spend

Good response. Similar to my post earlier where local players from small clubs will be targeted by the bigger clubs. eg Fort Caruso. Under a points system he would be 1 point so he would be in huge demand.

 

[Prophetic]

Good response. Similar to my post earlier where local players from small clubs will be targeted by the bigger clubs. eg Fort Caruso. Under a points system he would be 1 point so he would be in huge demand.

Can someone give a quick run down of the general rules involved with a points system. I understand it's about getting more reward for playing home-grown players but I have NFI about the actual detail?

For example, wouldn't Fort only be worth 1 point if he played at Northern Saints? If he moved to another club he wouldn't be a junior and therefore would be worth more points?

If you bring in a points system, how do you stop clubs from poaching players at u/16 level so they can claim them as 'home grown'? Or how do you stop clubs from cooking the books and saying jo blogs played juniors for them when he didn't? Sounds like a lot more resources would need to be devoted to policing this sort of inevitable loop holes that some clubs will try...

 

[Abers]

Can someone give a quick run down of the general rules involved with a points system. I understand it's about getting more reward for playing home-grown players but I have NFI about the actual detail?

For example, wouldn't Fort only be worth 1 point if he played at Northern Saints? If he moved to another club he wouldn't be a junior and therefore would be worth more points?

If you bring in a points system, how do you stop clubs from poaching players at u/16 level so they can claim them as 'home grown'? Or how do you stop clubs from cooking the books and saying jo blogs played juniors for them when he didn't? Sounds like a lot more resources would need to be devoted to policing this sort of inevitable loop holes that some clubs will try...

I think the Caruso example is based on the idea that blokes from within the league are worth less points than blokes from outside the league.

Not sure how this system will work for smaller clubs. Surely it just puts the likes of Abers, Keilor and Greenvale at an even greater advantage with their massive amount of juniors.

Only real way to even it up and lower spending would be a full blown salary cap and good luck policing that.

 

[Canplaythisguy]

I think the Caruso example is based on the idea that blokes from within the league are worth less points than blokes from outside the league.

Not sure how this system will work for smaller clubs. Surely it just puts the likes of Abers, Keilor and Greenvale at an even greater advantage with their massive amount of juniors.

Only real way to even it up and lower spending would be a full blown salary cap and good luck policing that.

Greenvales juniors arnt that strong
Under 16s and 14s were in b grade in 2014 and will be in b grade potentially c grade in 2015.

 

[Prophetic]

I think the Caruso example is based on the idea that blokes from within the league are worth less points than blokes from outside the league.

Not sure how this system will work for smaller clubs. Surely it just puts the likes of Abers, Keilor and Greenvale at an even greater advantage with their massive amount of juniors.

Only real way to even it up and lower spending would be a full blown salary cap and good luck policing that.

Well if players from within the league are worth less that will just lead to poaching of players from other clubs, something which is not really considered 'the done thing' in EDFL unless a player specifically wants out. Surely it is a far worse environment for clubs like Northern Saints if the bigger clubs are encouraged by the points system to poach all their best players? Recruiting players from outside the league should be encouraged as it keeps good faith between clubs and doesn't create a poaching mentality within the league.

 

[My North]

How is everyone preseason training? Good numbers at preseason training.

 

[milkman99]

Can someone give a quick run down of the general rules involved with a points system. I understand it's about getting more reward for playing home-grown players but I have NFI about the actual detail?

For example, wouldn't Fort only be worth 1 point if he played at Northern Saints? If he moved to another club he wouldn't be a junior and therefore would be worth more points?

If you bring in a points system, how do you stop clubs from poaching players at u/16 level so they can claim them as 'home grown'? Or how do you stop clubs from cooking the books and saying jo blogs played juniors for them when he didn't? Sounds like a lot more resources would need to be devoted to policing this sort of inevitable loop holes that some clubs will try...

How could you cook the books if player is a registered player at each club & when you get cleared to a new club you have to write down your previous playing history , the problem l think is the leagues do not want it in because that could limit the number of quality footballers playing in there league

 

[dunedog]

Well if players from within the league are worth less that will just lead to poaching of players from other clubs, something which is not really considered 'the done thing' in EDFL unless a player specifically wants out. Surely it is a far worse environment for clubs like Northern Saints if the bigger clubs are encouraged by the points system to poach all their best players? Recruiting players from outside the league should be encouraged as it keeps good faith between clubs and doesn't create a poaching mentality within the league.

A points system template that I remember seeing early in the year, a link posted in the Ovens and Murray thread I believe, had players from other teams within the same competition as the highest amount of points. Above that of an ex AFL player to prevent exactly that.

 

[Shadow Master]

Believe that former Western Bulldog and Carlton defender Mark Austin will commit to Aberfeldie very shortly. Would be a great pick up as he would be in the top 3 defenders and also a top bloke to boot ..... Originally a South Australian who has resisted offers to return to the SANFL. Also heard a highly rated VAFA premiership player from Uni Blacks has also committed to Aberfeldie. Brock McLean still a chance to return to his junior club but Port Melbourne have offered the Norm Goss grandstand and Deer Park FC have offered their "suburb" to get him !!!!!

Where there is smoke there is fire, 'Carl on the Corner' was happy to crow on the weekend that Aberfeldie FC was about to sign, if not already, a trio of quality players. As mentioned earlier, Brock McLean and Mark Austin had all but agreed to terms and conditions, but Carl was happy to add Brad Vasall's name to recent additions, an ex NEAFL, SANFL strong bodied midfielder. Carl was also happy to crow about the fact that Aberfeldie FC was also in negotiations with Kyle Hardingham re his services for the 2015 season and beyond.

If it is true! As previously reported, that Aberfeldie FC would be retaining a large percentage of it's playing list from the 2014 season, these recent additions would certainly create a playing list that would surely help ensure a SUCCESSFUL structure is in place for the 2015 season, just in time before the proposed points system is supposedly introduced STATE wide in 2016.

These recent additions would also add credence to another topic that 'Carl on the Corner' was happy to elaborate on. Carl seems to believe there may be a possible internal administration battle underway behind closed doors re the misuse of funds provided for junior development!

'YOU GET WHAT YOU PLAN FOR'

'INTERESTING TIMES AHEAD FOR SOME CLUBS'

 

[Joey Montoro]

A points system template that I remember seeing early in the year, a link posted in the Ovens and Murray thread I believe, had players from other teams within the same competition as the highest amount of points. Above that of an ex AFL player to prevent exactly that.

If this is the case, which it really needs to be, players like Fort won't be that attractive to clubs and rightly so. It will also limit the gauging of junior players that has been going for some time. Clubs will need to ensure they get their junior programs and retention in order and try and retain their very best. Clubs like Glenroy, Northern, Moonee Valley, Haddy, Roxy, Westy just to name a few will need to do everything to retain these kids right NOW. If not, Shadow Master's famed quote, will come true. .

 

[Two Planks]

All the point system will do is force clubs like Aberfeldie, Strathmore and Greenvale to start paying parents of talented kids to switch clubs at the age of 14 rather than at 20. The kids only need to play 3 years of juniors to qualify as the lowest point scorer under the proposed system.

 

[bsddbsfbfd]

Would the system be similar to some cricket leagues?

Eg. A set total number of points per team each game which can not exceed whatever number.

Then for eg.

AFL = 10 pts
State League = 8 pts
State Dev. League = 6pts
Metro/Country senior player = 4 pts
Homegrown junior = 1 pt

Then each year played at a club consecutively the points can go down 1 each year, increasing loyalty etc.

The problem is with a points system and not a salary cap, is that even though the senior team can only have so many players, a team with a lot of cash can ensure that they still have huge depth.

 

[dunedog]

Would the system be similar to some cricket leagues?

Eg. A set total number of points per team each game which can not exceed whatever number.

Then for eg.

AFL = 10 pts
State League = 8 pts
State Dev. League = 6pts
Metro/Country senior player = 4 pts
Homegrown junior = 1 pt

Then each year played at a club consecutively the points can go down 1 each year, increasing loyalty etc.

The problem is with a points system and not a salary cap, is that even though the senior team can only have so many players, a team with a lot of cash can ensure that they still have huge depth.

I believe so. The template I seen, from memory, was something like this:

- A total of 30 points per team

- Player from an opposition team within the same competition = 6 points
- AFL player = 5 points
- State league player = 4 points
- Major Country or Metro league player = 3 points
- Minor Country or Metro league player = 2 points
- Junior player with club = 1 point

- Players points begin to be reduced after having played 2 consecutive years at a club.

- Possibility for teams that finish last to score an extra point for the next season in leagues without a relegation/promotion system.

Again I am just going from memory after reading this earlier in the year. No perfect system/template but will be interesting to see how a trial would pan out. Definitely see this having some legs, especially in the country where no relegation/promotion exists and the bottom teams that can't compete with the big spending teams are simply getting flogged every week, year in year out.

 

[the horse whisper]

I believe so. The template I seen, from memory, was something like this:

- A total of 30 points per team

- Player from an opposition team within the same competition = 6 points
- AFL player = 5 points
- State league player = 4 points
- Major Country or Metro league player = 3 points
- Minor Country or Metro league player = 2 points
- Junior player with club = 1 point

- Players points begin to be reduced after having played 2 consecutive years at a club.

- Possibility for teams that finish last to score an extra point for the next season in leagues without a relegation/promotion system.

Again I am just going from memory after reading this earlier in the year. No perfect system/template but will be interesting to see how a trial would pan out. Definitely see this having some legs, especially in the country where no relegation/promotion exists and the bottom teams that can't compete with the big spending teams are simply getting flogged every week, year in year out.

With this theory how many points would someone like Addam Maric be worth??
5 points for AFL player
4 points for state league player or
1 point for being a Greenvale junior

 

[dunedog]

With this theory how many points would someone like Addam Maric be worth??
5 points for AFL player
4 points for state league player or
1 point for being a Greenvale junior

My understanding is that he would be 1 point. If a player is a former junior then they come under that banner first and foremost, no matter the level of football played. That's the way I understand it.

 

[Joey Montoro]

My understanding is that he would be 1 point. If a player is a former junior then they come under that banner first and foremost, no matter the level of football played. That's the way I understand it.

If he is originally a junior from that club, to that club he should be 1 point. To another club, 5 points. If he had of played at an opposition team but is still from AFL, to another club, would he be classed as AFL 5 points or Opposition 6 points?

30 points covering 22 players is really not much per player. The team would need to be made up of a lot of juniors from the club, something many people on this form would have a problem with.

If you do the math/calculation, it's going to be a challenge for clubs to have Opposition team players let alone ex AFL/VFL. It may have to be bumped up to cater for these clubs who seem to attract ex AFL/VFL and other major league players.

 

[Fevolution14]

Has a point system ever actually worked in a major league or is it like a "salary cap" good idea but ineffective?

I can't see how you can limit the capacity of players to continue to play the game by introducing a point limit which may exclude them from playing in a competition - reckon there could be a few restraint of trade issues that would come from that.

Surely its better to have the clubs self regulate - pay what they can afford - maybe even submit a playing budget to the league before they start with explanations on how they can afford to pay - bit like a financial statement - if the books say they are illiquid then they can't recruit etc....

The points ystem looks like you will get one ex-AFL player per team and the rest of the blokes who get delisted can sit on the sidelines or play the early game so as kids get to play....

The payment issue has been happening for years - ever since Bobby Rose left Collingwood to play in the O&M because he got paid more - Fred Fannings last VFL game was one where he kicked 18 goals - next game with Hamilton because of the cash - a problem with EDFL grounds is you can charge entry to recoup player costs....

 

[footy mad 1953]

Has a point system ever actually worked in a major league or is it like a "salary cap" good idea but ineffective?

I can't see how you can limit the capacity of players to continue to play the game by introducing a point limit which may exclude them from playing in a competition - reckon there could be a few restraint of trade issues that would come from that.

Surely its better to have the clubs self regulate - pay what they can afford - maybe even submit a playing budget to the league before they start with explanations on how they can afford to pay - bit like a financial statement - if the books say they are illiquid then they can't recruit etc....

The points ystem looks like you will get one ex-AFL player per team and the rest of the blokes who get delisted can sit on the sidelines or play the early game so as kids get to play....

The payment issue has been happening for years - ever since Bobby Rose left Collingwood to play in the O&M because he got paid more - Fred Fannings last VFL game was one where he kicked 18 goals - next game with Hamilton because of the cash - a problem with EDFL grounds is you can charge entry to recoup player costs....

 

[footy mad 1953]

How would abers 2014 got anywhere 30 points with all their ex AFL guys. They would make the points system unworkable, be a massive change to all clubs

 

[My North]

How would abers 2014 got anywhere 30 points with all their ex AFL guys. They would make the points system unworkable, be a massive change to all clubs

most of those ex AFL blokes would not have been at Abers in 2014 if that was the case, the point system will work but all metro and country leagues need to be part of it.

 

[shagshouli]

How would abers 2014 got anywhere 30 points with all their ex AFL guys. They would make the points system unworkable, be a massive change to all clubs

It would also be the death of Airport West and Pasco Vale. Demographically not enough young men living in those catchments to field teams and can't recruit because of a points system. Quandary???