Enough is Enough

The Rusty Trombone

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Also some pretty sound comments, and to be honest there has been, mostly, some pretty solid posting from everyone, some are more volatile and emotional than others, but there is nothing wrong with that, some are more measured and conservative, nothing wrong with that either.
On Benny, I have no doubt that, behind closed doors, he and his team are focusing very heavily on the areas that need most attention, I'm more than happy that they aren't playing it out in the media, being seen to be seeming to do something is something I'm happy to leave to the politicians!
I'm not a great believer in change for change's sake, but if it's decided that Dimma won't be taking us forward or that Dimma will be taking us forward, then so be it, I'll respect either decision, now or in years to come.
Word of warning for all, if Dimma stays or Dimma goes there is no magical easy fix either way, this is not an era where we can get the next Royce for six shirts and a suit, or pinch Dick Clay from North, nor is it an era that we can throw big, silly money at a "big name" signing and retain our best players.
We won't be attracting a Kurt Tippett and a Buddy Franklin to Richmond, and at the same time retaining all our best players, we also won't have dozens of the best young talents in the land all maturing and improving at the same clubs, GWS & GC have that "privilege", well done AFL.
All we can do is try to be smarter and luckier, yes luckier, than the clubs in the same boat as us - St Kilda, Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon, North, Western Bulldogs, Adelaide, Port Adelaide (let's see if they can keep it going shall we), West Coast.
Collingwood, Hawthorn, Geelong & Freo will have their own trials in the coming years.
The recruiting of Grigg, Houli, Maric etc when we did was justified and all have served the club well, it's up to every player on the list to improve themselves and the team going forward. Rookies are bonuses and I can see why we got Hampson, available, cheap and we had a real need with Ivan doubtful, yes it's looking like a bust, but hey all clubs have their busts.
I will be very surprised if some serious behind the scenes work isn't taking place right now, but this season has come as a most unpleasant surprise to all, so don't expect any miracles, but do expect some professionalism and bloody hard work.
This might not be a magical world where we can pick up the best CHF in the game for 6 shirts and a couple of bucks but it is a magical world where we can get a Heppell, Prestia or Tom Lynch over a Conca ( I love Conca by the way so don't get all stroppy with me) , it is also a magical world where we could of got Fyfe or Scott Selwood before Benny Griffiths.

I think what's magical about this world is that some people are capable of doing their jobs magically and if they don't then they can be replaced.
 

This Is Anfield

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This might not be a magical world where we can pick up the best CHF in the game for 6 shirts and a couple of bucks but it is a magical world where we can get a Heppell, Prestia or Tom Lynch over a Conca ( I love Conca by the way so don't get all stroppy with me) , it is also a magical world where we could of got Fyfe or Scott Selwood before Benny Griffiths.

I think what's magical about this world is that some people are capable of doing their jobs magically and if they don't then they can be replaced.
Did read, wish I didn't.
 
This is done in the corporate world all the time and since the clubs are run like businesses these days there shouldn't be much reason why we couldn't do the same. Get in your standard consulting people like BCG or KordaMentha etc. and get them to assess the club, establish measurable, definable KPIs for all employees of the club and tweaks to the management structure (if required) for both footy dept and general management.

The off field stuff seems to be going pretty well so focus on the footy dept. I think it's fairly clear even to casual observers that there doesn't seem to be much of a culture of accountability if people are left to their own devices so a framework needs to be established that can clearly identify the problem areas and then strategies to fix those problems (if that means that everyone could possibly be dropped to the twos then so be it). This is supposed to be the coaches job but instead of firing him, why not establish a system that can help him clearly assess where the team is at and what's going wrong. dimmas dissection is great when you've had 3 days to look at replays, what about in real time?


The capitulation after half time was not fun to watch. We just got slaughtered in every centre clearance and most stoppages. I was expecting North to make a comeback and for us to maybe lose but to give away a 35 point lead to then lose by 30 something points ... Richmond showing again that they can disappoint you in ways you can't imagine.

Given the relatively new professionalism at the club from the last few year's, I'd hope something like that can happen.

Just looking at the fitness for example. I remember reading/hearing somewhere that Dimma believed our fitness standards were amongst the best in the competition - given how we have struggled in second halves this season (couldn't over run GC in R1 despite having an extra man for the majority of the game, R2 vs the Blues and their big comeback, the Geelong game when we had a longer break and they were coming off another gruelling game against Hawthorn on the previous Monday and still broke us in the last quarter. The North game in the second half is another example of a concerning pattern...).

I believe in what the club (as an organisation) is doing but our footy department in particular, might be in need of some redirection/modifying/tinkering to try and break our slump backwards.
 

Nebular

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Goldfrog

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Given the relatively new professionalism at the club from the last few year's, I'd hope something like that can happen.

Just looking at the fitness for example. I remember reading/hearing somewhere that Dimma believed our fitness standards were amongst the best in the competition - given how we have struggled in second halves this season (couldn't over run GC in R1 despite having an extra man for the majority of the game, R2 vs the Blues and their big comeback, the Geelong game when we had a longer break and they were coming off another gruelling game against Hawthorn on the previous Monday and still broke us in the last quarter. The North game in the second half is another example of a concerning pattern...).

I believe in what the club (as an organisation) is doing but our footy department in particular, might be in need of some redirection/modifying/tinkering to try and break our slump backwards.

i admire your use of understatement, "might be in need of" and "redirection/modifying/tinkering" being the examples of those.
 
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As the boss, the finger must be pointed at Dimma
Has been out coached and via selection committee made the wrong call on ins and outs
Has persisted with players instead of sending a strong message and giving them the flick for under performing/ not sticking with the game plan / petulence / injury etc

Players are also to blame - in particular the leadership group for contributing to our malaise and not insisting on the best club culture but have added to mediocrity

Recruiting...hindsight is wonderful but let's face it, there have been errors
Today's game requires a team to have pace- we got rid of pace and we have not topped up on those players.
Small crumbling forward...we haven't recruited one of those in years...yet the club has relied on an aging and injury prone Jake King to be that small crumbling forward- doubt we will see him again ever because he is almost past it and can't get over his injury

2013 was a good year for us,..however that was last year and the game has moved on...our game plan has remained the same...our players have not developed / improved

The second half of the year will unfold and tell us in no uncertain terms what the club needs to do- but will it act? That is Coaching panel and players

I hope we just don't continue on with mediocrity because 2015 will be hell
 
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Tiger71

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As the boss, the finger must be pointed at Dimma
Has been out coached and via selection committee made the wrong call on ins and outs
Has persisted with players instead of sending a strong message and giving them the flick for under performing/ not sticking with the game plan / petulence / injury etc

Players are also to blame - in particular the leadership group for contributing to our malaise and not insisting on the best club culture but have added to mediocrity

Recruiting...hindsight is wonderful but let's face it, there have been errors
Today's game requires a team to have pace- we got rid of pace and we have not topped up on those players.
Small crumbling forward...we haven't recruited one of those in years...yet the club has relied on an aging and injury prone Jake King to be that small crumbling forward- doubt we will see him again ever because he is almost past it and can't get over his injury

2013 was a good year for us,..however that was last year and the game has moved on...our game plan has remained the same...our players have not developed / improved

The second half of the year will unfold and tell us in no uncertain terms what the club needs to do- but will it act? That is Coaching panel and players

I hope we just don't continue on with mediocrity because 2015 will be hell

Good post mate.

Im confident that we wont repeat the same mistakes as years past solely due to our club knows the status of our list better then anyone. Dan Richardson confirmed it in his interview on 3aw. He mentioned the impact of the two compromised drafts and why we were forced into going heavier then what we wanted to for cheap recylces. It was allow us to reset our player payments so that we can target quality. Bottom line this year we are paying for miss managed contracts, compromised drafts etc.
 

TheProwler

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As the boss, the finger must be pointed at Dimma
Has been out coached and via selection committee made the wrong call on ins and outs
Has persisted with players instead of sending a strong message and giving them the flick for under performing/ not sticking with the game plan / petulence / injury etc

Players are also to blame - in particular the leadership group for contributing to our malaise and not insisting on the best club culture but have added to mediocrity

Recruiting...hindsight is wonderful but let's face it, there have been errors
Today's game requires a team to have pace- we got rid of pace and we have not topped up on those players.
Small crumbling forward...we haven't recruited one of those in years...yet the club has relied on an aging and injury prone Jake King to be that small crumbling forward- doubt we will see him again ever because he is almost past it and can't get over his injury

2013 was a good year for us,..however that was last year and the game has moved on...our game plan has remained the same...our players have not developed / improved

The second half of the year will unfold and tell us in no uncertain terms what the club needs to do- but will it act? That is Coaching panel and players

I hope we just don't continue on with mediocrity because 2015 will be hell
Better brace yourself then mate as the stubborn as a mule/good bloke says he knows what the problem is they just have to get it up & going. You wait, Hampson will be back in this week:(

Good post too:thumbsu:
 

partycorolla

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But how do you get the players to start playing like AFL players? They haven't been able to do it for 12 rounds. Still a mess. Unfortunately, it lies with Dimma to make sure his players are playing to a standard that's acceptable. Regardless if he is doing okay with the game plan, everything else with coaching.

He continues to pick players that plain old suck. Chaplin has not played a decent game all year, but continues to get a game. Vickery hasn't played a decent game, gets dropped for a week, and regardless of how he plays he is back in the following week. Grigg, Houli, list goes on.

Tuck, Nahas and White have left. No major list changes to a list that made finals last year. So no excuse as to why they are playing like a ******* rabble.

Maybe a new coach is needed.... To come in and say "You guys are pathetic. This is a standard you must play, if you don't, you won't play seniors. Simple" If the players don't like it they can **** off. DImma may all and well say something similar, but then to continue to play guys like Chaplin, Grigg, Houli, Hampson. It contradicts the message if it's similar.

Well that is the question.... how do you? Even the players don't know.... the frustrating part for me is that they have played well in patches.... it'd be easier to understand if they just played like crap, every minute of every game....

I do agree that some players seem to get a longer run than they deserve.... they need to be a bit more brutal at selection. However there are only ever so many players that can come in. Once you bring them up and they don't succeed and then you drop them for a player who is just going ok in the ressies and do this over and over again, it loses its effect a bit (see your comments on Vickery)...Miles is the exception here.... demanded his spot in the side due to his great VFL form but precious few others have.... not the guys who will help us long term.

We could bring A.Edwards, Orren etc in but will that help us for 2015? Maybe it would if it sends the message that you play when you are playing well and you get dropped when you aren't...... I don't know.

I do know that 2014 is shot in terms of achievement.... what needs to happen in the next agonisingly long 11 games is that benchmarks need to be set and met, culture needs to be addressed by all and some real analysis into what went wrong and when.... Was it in the pre-season, do the players think they are great, did we think we didn't need to replace departed coaches, why the hell did we draft a giraffe etc etc etc

No simple answer IMO.... just a lot of hard work from all areas of the footy club, particularly the footy dept
 

partycorolla

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Well we will have to agree to disagree here, long term application is without question, IMO, the responsibility of the coach. All players and/or teams have flat spots throughout seasons, but overall it's up to the coach to have the players motivated, fit, organised and confident in each other and the game plan.

Look, I'm not looking to absolve DH of all responsibility.... decisions he has made have certainly contributed.... but in terms of motivation... that's crap. If I do my job poorly, it's not my manager who gets the flick, it's me. I control my motivation, I control what I do. Just like the players.... Game style, tempo, Hampson, rewarding players for mediocre form or not sending strong messages to out-of-form players.... yeah that is DH.
 
Oct 3, 2009
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Look, I'm not looking to absolve DH of all responsibility.... decisions he has made have certainly contributed.... but in terms of motivation... that's crap. If I do my job poorly, it's not my manager who gets the flick, it's me. I control my motivation, I control what I do. Just like the players.... Game style, tempo, Hampson, rewarding players for mediocre form or not sending strong messages to out-of-form players.... yeah that is DH.

You can't compare an everyday job to professional sport. All players go out on the park with high levels of motivation. The problem is you are competing against another team that also has high levels of motivation. Do you have someone sitting at a desk opposite you everyday where each day only one of you can complete your job satisfactorily? The other one automatically fails? Even if you try at 99% you may still end up with zero. It's so different it's not a valid comparison to raise. Even saying that if your Manager has an under performing team then you think he isn't under the pump from above?

It's OK we can disagree, in my experience the coach is wholly responsible for the long term "effort" of the side, whilst minor fluctuations will always occur at player level.
 
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The fact that the board decided not to replace Leppa and Campo makes it easier financially to replace Hardwick with a Coach that is up to the task, it's beyond match days now anyway , we've been losing at the selection table and have been brought in done by his woeful change of attitude and recycling mantra.

If I was in charge I'd identify the fact that when you sack a senior coach you usually have his assistants sitting around with contracts that need replacing also as the new coach wants to build a new team around him and this is an expensive exercise eg Ratten , Riley , Richardson , Williams when Malthouse came in . I think you make a fantastic point that we didn't replace Leppa and Cambo and if we do the maths now is the time to replace Hardwick and let the new coach interview the guys left . I reckon Ross Smith and Danny Daley and Tim Clarke will survive but the rest might not survive the cut.
All the rabble must go. I'm over them all
They've run us into the dirt in 6 months
 

This Is Anfield

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All the rabble must go. I'm over them all
They've run us into the dirt in 6 months
Ok then, who is responsible and must be replaced.
President & Board - Out
CEO - Out
Football Manager - Out
Recruiting Dept - Out
Coach - Out
Assistant Coaches - Out
Fitness Staff - Out
Captain - Out
Vice-Captain - Out
Rest of Leadership Group - Out
Players over 26 - Out
Usual Suspects (Grigg, Vickery, Houli, Thomas, Jackson, Hampson, Morris, Chaplin, Griffiths, Petterd, S Edwards, A Edwards) - Out

In - ????????????????????
 
Apr 27, 2014
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Ok then, who is responsible and must be replaced.
President & Board - Out
CEO - Out
Football Manager - Out
Recruiting Dept - Out
Coach - Out
Assistant Coaches - Out
Fitness Staff - Out
Captain - Out
Vice-Captain - Out
Rest of Leadership Group - Out
Players over 26 - Out
Usual Suspects (Grigg, Vickery, Houli, Thomas, Jackson, Hampson, Morris, Chaplin, Griffiths, Petterd, S Edwards, A Edwards) - Out

In - ????????????????????
Recruiters and coaching staff if we have any they're more like blood suckers
All retreads delisted or paid out to FO
Admin stays
Fitness staff stay but topped up and told they're on notice
 

Goldfrog

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Ok then, who is responsible and must be replaced.
President & Board - Out
CEO - Out
Football Manager - Out
Recruiting Dept - Out
Coach - Out
Assistant Coaches - Out
Fitness Staff - Out
Captain - Out
Vice-Captain - Out
Rest of Leadership Group - Out
Players over 26 - Out
Usual Suspects (Grigg, Vickery, Houli, Thomas, Jackson, Hampson, Morris, Chaplin, Griffiths, Petterd, S Edwards, A Edwards) - Out

In - ????????????????????
What about a panel from teh Big Footy forum. Not sure we would do any worse.
 
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Well that is the question.... how do you? Even the players don't know.... the frustrating part for me is that they have played well in patches.... it'd be easier to understand if they just played like crap, every minute of every game....

I do agree that some players seem to get a longer run than they deserve.... they need to be a bit more brutal at selection. However there are only ever so many players that can come in. Once you bring them up and they don't succeed and then you drop them for a player who is just going ok in the ressies and do this over and over again, it loses its effect a bit (see your comments on Vickery)...Miles is the exception here.... demanded his spot in the side due to his great VFL form but precious few others have.... not the guys who will help us long term.

We could bring A.Edwards, Orren etc in but will that help us for 2015? Maybe it would if it sends the message that you play when you are playing well and you get dropped when you aren't...... I don't know.

I do know that 2014 is shot in terms of achievement.... what needs to happen in the next agonisingly long 11 games is that benchmarks need to be set and met, culture needs to be addressed by all and some real analysis into what went wrong and when.... Was it in the pre-season, do the players think they are great, did we think we didn't need to replace departed coaches, why the hell did we draft a giraffe etc etc etc

No simple answer IMO.... just a lot of hard work from all areas of the footy club, particularly the footy dept

In regards to selection. It comes down to form. Right now, no one besides Dusty, Jack, Conca (when he was playing) Miles, Dea and Cotch are playing anywhere near AFL standard. We should have around 44 listed players, with a few injuries. That gives us around 35-36 players to chose a team from.
Which means, no matter how well they play, 15 players such as Arnott, A.Edwards, Stephson ect. Are not getting a game. Sure, they may not be brining down the house with their performances, but no one in the senior side is either. Season is shot, so why try and play the same people over and over again when no one in the side, excluding 5 are playing to a standard that is acceptable.
I'm not saying, drop them all and bring in the VFL side, can't be done. But it's time to drop people who clearly not playing to the standard.

My personal side for this week.

Out: Chaplin, Lids, Vickery, Houli, Thomas
In: A.Edwards, Arnott, Stephenson, Conca, Mcintosh

B: Mcintosh Rance Dea
HB; Vlas Griffiths McDonough
C: Foley Cotchin Arnott
HF: Lennon Maric A.Edwards
F: S.Edwards Riewoldt Miles
Foll: Stephenson Martin Conca
I/C: Pettard Batchelor Morris
Sub:Ellis

Now, that team isn't impressive at all. But the 5 I took out, 3 of them are vital pieces in our 22. Some time in the VFL to regain some form and confidence. Whilst giving some of the others a run in the seniors, giving them some confidence and experience. That team isn't going to be worse then what we have served up this year.
 
May 28, 2013
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Look, I'm not looking to absolve DH of all responsibility.... decisions he has made have certainly contributed.... but in terms of motivation... that's crap. If I do my job poorly, it's not my manager who gets the flick, it's me. I control my motivation, I control what I do. Just like the players.... Game style, tempo, Hampson, rewarding players for mediocre form or not sending strong messages to out-of-form players.... yeah that is DH.
This is a team sport and you cannot give the flick to the 10-15 players who are not performing. The coach plans how the team plays, the coach has a say in the team he wants, the coach is given everything he needs to get his troops up & running. If the team does not deliver, the coach gets the flick.

I am not sure if sacking DH or certain players is the solution, however every individual should be made accountable for his success & failure. You wear the jumper only if you perform, the day you stop performing should be the last day at the club. This is the culture we need on & off the field. Over the years we have delivered off the field but on field seems to be missing.............since 1982!
 

partycorolla

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This is a team sport and you cannot give the flick to the 10-15 players who are not performing. The coach plans how the team plays, the coach has a say in the team he wants, the coach is given everything he needs to get his troops up & running. If the team does not deliver, the coach gets the flick.

I am not sure if sacking DH or certain players is the solution, however every individual should be made accountable for his success & failure. You wear the jumper only if you perform, the day you stop performing should be the last day at the club. This is the culture we need on & off the field. Over the years we have delivered off the field but on field seems to be missing.............since 1982!

Why can't we get rid of 10-15 players? It might take 2 seasons but that is exactly what I would do.....All the under-performers and list cloggers

Agree with your second paragraph though...
 

Rich01

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So to be clear, you do happen to know(directly or by 2nd or 3rd hand?) that DH thinks he has lost the players, or actually has lost the players? was this discussed at this open heart session a while back?

Happy to admit I got this one wrong.
Don't believe my information was incorrect though - Hardwick at the time was having serious doubts and the club knew it. Seems to have pushed through.
 
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