Opinion Essendon Hird / drugs / legal saga

good4footy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 9, 2004
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Oh I'm sure we have players that flat out break the rules - but as I said earlier that was not what I said about Caff.
You love Hird who has brought the game into disrepute twice but Caff is a blight on the game? Aha.

Even if you guys get off on the drugs issue on some legality you can't argue your club failed the the spirit of the game test you refer to by what you did. Once again your hypocrisy shines like a beacon. Only those outside of Essendon in your mind breach the spirt by which the game is played.
 
You love Hird who has brought the game into disrepute twice but Caff is a blight on the game? Aha.

Even if you guys get off on the drugs issue on some legality you can't argue your club failed the the spirit of the game test you refer to by what you did. Once again your hypocrisy shines like a beacon. Only those outside of Essendon in your mind breach the spirt by which the game is played.

I can't?

There is a very real possibility that the report used to penalise club and staff was illegally presented. You do realise that 'technicality' is potentially a serious breach of the law.

Now unlike a few, I'm not going to try predict the future - but I'm very much going to wait and see what the outcome is when this debacle is over before I try and assign 'innocence' or 'guilt' (or somewhere in between).
 

good4footy

Norm Smith Medallist
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I can't?

There is a very real possibility that the report used to penalise club and staff was illegally presented. You do realise that 'technicality' is potentially a serious breach of the law.

Now unlike a few, I'm not going to try predict the future - but I'm very much going to wait and see what the outcome is when this debacle is over before I try and assign 'innocence' or 'guilt' (or somewhere in between).
As you say the rules / law is not about spirit of the game. Once again stick to the topic. Caff apparently does not break the rules but plays outside the spirit of the game according to you so you hate him.

Whether you get away on a technical breach of the rules or not, what your club did is definitely outside the spirit of the game.

Stop trying to talk about the difference of rules and spirit of the game when it suits you but then muddy the waters on the two when discussing anything to do with Essendon. I see the use of spin has now cascaded down to the supporters now as well.
 
Whats the difference between Caff and say a Darren Glass or Tom lonergan? He's a defensive player and plays his role well.

The spirit of the game is not to let cheap front running midfielders have it there way all the time......

I think a better comparison would be say a Cornes (also a tagger). He blocks, shepherds, holds - generally makes a pain in the ass of himself; and I don't have a problem with him because his game is (mostly) not based on scragging his opponent.

Caff is well known as a massive scragger (which I might add IS illegal), who gets away with it. I hate the way he plays the game because I consider him inferior to his opponents, and I despise how he makes the game look (aesthetically).

Think we may have had a breakthrough here - problem would be bloody fixed if the umpires penalised him consistently.

And bloody hell, an Essendon supporter talking about spirit of the game..... wowee!!

As I said earlier, if you want to talk ASADA, let's talk ASADA.
 

good4footy

Norm Smith Medallist
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What did we do?
Ha ha I rest my case. Read the club report on the uncontrolled drug regime implemented by your club. You are just being mischievous and unable to say you were wro...wron... Wron... Come on Fonzie you can do it.

Love Hird- despite being charged twice for bringing game into disrepute- but hate Caff. Right.
 
Ha ha I rest my case. Read the club report on the uncontrolled drug regime implemented by your club. You are just being mischievous and unable to say you were wro...wron... Wron... Come on Fonzie you can do it.

Oh it was indeed mischievous. Because until we have a player found guilty of a doping offence, we are no more guilty than the other dozen clubs who had the same issues we had (governance and/or management wise).

Now granted, it appears in hindsight that the 'self reporting' and the like was stupidity of the highest order - but again, I don't know all the facts as to why we did that to pass any meaningful judgement.

Love Hird- despite being charged twice for bringing game into disrepute- but hate Caff. Right.

Once for criticising an umpire, and rightfully so - McLaren was s**t.
Second time for a 'crime' that may very well be based on illegal evidence.

I'll give you one thing though, he is an egotistical maniac - if a court declares the investigation illegal (and I doubt that BTW) I suspect Hird will go hardest and longest to pursue every person and organisation he feels wronged him.
 
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Oh it was indeed mischievous. Because until we have a player found guilty of a doping offence, we are no more guilty than the other dozen clubs who had the same issues we had (governance and/or management wise).

Now granted, it appears in hindsight that the 'self reporting' and the like was stupidity of the highest order - but again, I don't know all the facts as to why we did that to pass any meaningful judgement.
Which dozen other clubs are you talking about? The recent work cover checks showed nothing wrong anywhere.

Essendon's own internal report showed a pharmacologically experimental environment...which really says enough in itself.
 
Which dozen other clubs are you talking about? The recent work cover checks showed nothing wrong anywhere.

For a start, workcover (actually now the VWA, but semantics.....) haven't completed those checks, but I would bet a shiny dollar that you'll be right (ie. nothing will come of it).

As for what twelve clubs (eleven actually, I used 'dozen' as a simplification), I don't know for sure. Of course there is speculation - but it's irresponsible to take that speculation as fact.

Essendon's own internal report showed a pharmacologically experimental environment...which really says enough in itself.

I can only speak for myself with certainty, but I believe that most Essendon supporters think the Ziggy report was the biggest mistake the club made post-blackest day. Knowing what we know now with the benefit of hindsight, my personal opinion would be that if we could repeat the circumstances it would be to tell ASADA to **** off (exaggeration of course) and do only the bare minimum in co-operation with them.
 
Mate simple question as everything else you bring up is just noise. Explain how you can hate Caff for what you call spirit of the game issues but love Hird despite him bringing the game into disrepute twice.

Mate, I've given you answers consistently - and you don't like the answer. Too bad for you to be honest.

Responded with detail on bringing the game into disrepute, further detail on Caff compared to other players and many other related questions on Essendon/ASADA.

But the answer you want is 'I HATE JAMES HIRD!'

Well you won't get it. As I said numerous times, I reserve judgement until I know all the facts (which could be years), but my feel at the moment is the bloke was thrown under the bus because of his immense profile, and he was likely no more or less guilty than the majority of AFL coaches in this regard prior to the scandal breaking. That opinion may change as I know more.

Now, if you don't like the answer - that's fine, you won't be the first or last person to disagree with me, but stop asking me the same question. And for the love of god stop trying to imply I've dodged it or am 'spinning' an answer, it's mildly insulting to someone trying to respond to all posts in good faith - and I really don't want to be ignoring people over it.
 

good4footy

Norm Smith Medallist
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Mate, I've given you answers consistently - and you don't like the answer. Too bad for you to be honest.

Responded with detail on bringing the game into disrepute, further detail on Caff compared to other players and many other related questions on Essendon/ASADA.

But the answer you want is 'I HATE JAMES HIRD!'

Well you won't get it. As I said numerous times, I reserve judgement until I know all the facts (which could be years), but my feel at the moment is the bloke was thrown under the bus because of his immense profile, and he was likely no more or less guilty than the majority of AFL coaches in this regard prior to the scandal breaking. That opinion may change as I know more.

Now, if you don't like the answer - that's fine, you won't be the first or last person to disagree with me, but stop asking me the same question. And for the love of god stop trying to imply I've dodged it or am 'spinning' an answer, it's mildly insulting to someone trying to respond to all posts in good faith - and I really don't want to be ignoring people over it.
You haven't answered what I have brought up. More noise by you. Oh and please ignore me if you don't like being made accountable on another teams board for the rubbish you write. You won't be missed by me. I much prefer logical conversation.

I don't care if you hate Caff or love Hird. My question which remains unanswered is how can you logically ( and using the parameters you put up) hate Caff but not Hird. You can't answer it because it would mean admitting you are a hypocrite and one eyed- which has been my one and only point.
 
You haven't answered what I have brought up. More noise by you. Oh and please ignore me if you don't like being made accountable on another teams board for the rubbish you write. You won't be missed by me. I much prefer logical conversation.

I don't care if you hate Caff or love Hird. My question which remains unanswered is how can you logically ( and using the parameters you put up) hate Caff but not Hird. You can't answer it because it would mean admitting you are a hypocrite and one eyed- which has been my one and only point.

This will be the last time I answer you because of your rude, childlike responses.

The difference between the two is, Hird has never played against the spirit of the game. Moreover, prior to this scandal he was often held up as a shining beacon of the 'right' way to play. And quite frankly lets face it, there is a vast difference in talent between the two.

Now everything AFTER the scandal is entirely unproven, sensationalist junk. Now as I said, I reserve the right to change my opinion once I know the facts - at the moment I, and you I might add, simply have no idea. He could be anything from evil mastermind who instigated a doping program, or an unwitting victim of a club that simply didn't know how to dot it's i's and cross it's t's.

Either way, your posting absolutely shames this board - which I hold in as high a regard as I do any board. A refusal to listen, boorish statements and lazy, clumsy attacks.

It's because I LIKE posting here that I won't be responding to your posts.
 
Can we keep the drug talk out of this thread please? There are lots of other threads where this topic can be discussed.

Magpie Girl

No problem. As I said, I was happy to answer questions re: ASADA, but inevitably there is always someone that drags it down to another level. More than happy to discuss the game.
 
Do it somewhere else please. This thread is to discuss the upcoming game.

No problem. As I said, I was happy to answer questions re: ASADA, but inevitably there is always someone that drags it down to another level. More than happy to discuss the game.

I agree.
 

good4footy

Norm Smith Medallist
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This will be the last time I answer you because of your rude, childlike responses.

The difference between the two is, Hird has never played against the spirit of the game. Moreover, prior to this scandal he was often held up as a shining beacon of the 'right' way to play. And quite frankly lets face it, there is a vast difference in talent between the two.

Now everything AFTER the scandal is entirely unproven, sensationalist junk. Now as I said, I reserve the right to change my opinion once I know the facts - at the moment I, and you I might add, simply have no idea. He could be anything from evil mastermind who instigated a doping program, or an unwitting victim of a club that simply didn't know how to dot it's i's and cross it's t's.

Either way, your posting absolutely shames this board - which I hold in as high a regard as I do any board. A refusal to listen, boorish statements and lazy, clumsy attacks.

It's because I LIKE posting here that I won't be responding to your posts.
If you look at my posting history never have I responded in the manner you suggest. Have a sook for being called on the rubbish you write.Look in the mirror pal and you will see who you are referring to.

You have one rule for Essendon and another for everyone else. As I said hypocrite and one eyed. You and I disagree on how you go about judging people- that's the issue. You allow you allegiance to determine your opinion on things. Caff and Hird being a case in point.
 

good4footy

Norm Smith Medallist
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I
Can we keep the drug talk out of this thread please? There are lots of other threads where this topic can be discussed.

Magpie Girl
I m not talking about ASADA if you are referring to my responses to him. Discussing Caff and Hird and how one can be hated on some arbitrary spirit of the game level but the other one loved.
 
I

I m not talking about ASADA if you are referring to my responses to him. Discussing Caff and Hird and how one can be hated on some arbitrary spirit of the game level but the other one loved.

Either way, it does not add to the discussion regarding the upcoming game which this thread is intended for.
 

PieNSauce

Norm Smith Medallist
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are jealous!
I can only speak for myself with certainty, but I believe that most Essendon supporters think the Ziggy report was the biggest mistake the club made post-blackest day. Knowing what we know now with the benefit of hindsight, my personal opinion would be that if we could repeat the circumstances it would be to tell ASADA to **** off (exaggeration of course) and do only the bare minimum in co-operation with them.
Totally agree that your club's administration is stupid and incompetent but that does not change the fact that the program that Essendon undertook was high risk and oddly... not in the spirit of the game. The fact that they may get off on an evidential technicality will never change the fact that the whole saga has brought the game into disrepute and the blame lies squarely at the feet of your so called messiah!

P.S. Still shaking my head at your comments on Macaffer. The hypocrisy is astonishing despite your repeated subsequent attempts to justify such an idiotic statement.
 
Totally agree that your club's administration is stupid and incompetent but that does not change the fact that the program that Essendon undertook was high risk and oddly... not in the spirit of the game. The fact that they may get off on an evidential technicality will never change the fact that the whole saga has brought the game into disrepute and the blame lies squarely at the feet of your so called messiah!

Got to admit, when ever someone states that they believe the blame lies squarely on James Hird, my head kind of switches off - it screams of no understanding of the debacle, aside from wanting to see Essendon bleed (which as I've said a number of times, doesn't bother me if people can actually admit it).

Generally it means that no real conversation can be had on the topic. So I'm happy to talk the upcoming game, but you can't offer me any value in this regard (and I dare say vice versa).

P.S. Still shaking my head at your comments on Macaffer. The hypocrisy is astonishing despite your repeated subsequent attempts to justify such an idiotic statement.

Meh, it was a small number of posters that tried to twist what I sad into something else.

Macaffer is an ugly player, not a dirty one. His tactics and actions are grimy. I can't stand watching him play, and I genuinely wish that the umpires would call him on it a dozen times a game until he stops doing it.

The comparisons to Hird were foolish because:

a) He was one of the finer players the game had seen (Caff most certainly is not)
b) The ASADA debacle is ongoing, with no resolution and certainty of fact as yet
 
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Got to admit, when ever someone states that they believe the blame lies squarely on James Hird, my head kind of switches off - it screams of no understanding of the debacle, aside from wanting to see Essendon bleed (which as I've said a number of times, doesn't bother me if people can actually admit it).

Generally it means that no real conversation can be had on the topic. So I'm happy to talk the upcoming game, but you can't offer me any value in this regard (and I dare say vice versa).



Meh, it was a small number of posters that tried to twist what I sad into something else.

Macaffer is an ugly player, not a dirty one. His tactics and actions are grimy. I can't stand watching him play, and I genuinely wish that the umpires would call him on it a dozen times a game until he stops doing it.

The comparisons to Hird were foolish because:

a) He was one of the finer players the game had seen (Caff most certainly is not)Nn
b) The ASADA debacle is ongoing, with no resolution and certainty of fact as yet

Miraculously recovered from a career threatening foot injury due to a friendship with one Shane Charters.

Now, where have I heard that name before...

It's no coincidence that Charters has 2 framed photos on his wall.

Shane '1 year wonder' Woewoedin.

And

James 'shocked to be sitting here' Hird.
 
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