- Moderator
- #51
Anyone using Facebook or Twitter numbers to prove any point is barking up the wrong tree. Those are so inflated by neutral followers, commentators, media, news aggregators and bloggers that they are a joke.
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ESSENDON is the most popular club in the AFL after it was revealed the Bombers sell the most replica
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Anyone using Facebook or Twitter numbers to prove any point is barking up the wrong tree. Those are so inflated by neutral followers, commentators, media, news aggregators and bloggers that they are a joke.
Hm
Hmmm but it still shows which teams have a bigger following then others. If that was the case in what you are saying then every team will be the same Facebook likes and twitter followers.
At the end of the day the stats prove that Collingwood are Australia's biggest footy club being ranked number 1 in every statistical measure their is;
Attendances
Membership
Facebook
Twitter
Afl.com survey
Hmmm but it still shows which teams have a bigger following then others. If that was the case in what you are saying then every team will be the same Facebook likes and twitter followers.
At the end of the day the stats prove that Collingwood are Australia's biggest footy club being ranked number 1 in every statistical measure their is;
Attendances
Membership
Afl.com survey
Hm
Hmmm but it still shows which teams have a bigger following then others. If that was the case in what you are saying then every team will be the same Facebook likes and twitter followers.
At the end of the day the stats prove that Collingwood are Australia's biggest footy club being ranked number 1 in every statistical measure their is;
Attendances
Membership
Facebook
Twitter
Afl.com survey
Hmmm but it still shows which teams have a bigger following then others. If that was the case in what you are saying then every team will be the same Facebook likes and twitter followers.
At the end of the day the stats prove that Collingwood are Australia's biggest footy club being ranked number 1 in every statistical measure their is;
Attendances
Membership
Afl.com survey
- Moderator
- #54
Im saying that social media is not a reliable measurement of support, any more than using tv ratings is or away crowds.
Not saying its the most accurate measure but based on the numbers I produced there is a strong correlation between Facebook / Twitter presence and membership / attendance (the traditional measures of club support)
Make of that what you will
I think you're just struggling to come to terms with the fact that, shock! horror! some statistics are suggesting Collingwood might not be the biggest club.
- Jun 30, 2014
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- #57
a good example of that was with st kilda, their crowds averages jumper up to nearly the mid 40ks in a few years ago when they had their successful period. now they have dropped dramatically to 27k this year
it will be interesting to see where collingwood go over the next few years with their drop off in form
- Jun 30, 2014
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- #58
no those factors are distorted due to poke ownership. hawthorn & carlton's revenue is only so high is due to the millions made in poke revenue.
west coast make less revenue than hawthorn $55.97million to Hawthorns 64 million, 18 million of that comes from poke and gaming plus add in several other million in selling games to tasmania
No they didn't, you're about 8,000 off.
St Kilda's regular season attendances peaked in the 38,000 to 39,000 range in 2004/05 and again in the 37,000 to 38,000 range in 2010/11.
Edit: They drew 41,157 and 44,307 across 25 and 26 games in 2009/10. Though both seasons were heavily inflated by 3 MCG finals - including GF in 2009 and 4 MCG finals - including 2 GF's in 2010. Which is hardly a like for like comparison with a regular season where they only play 22 home / away games.
For all intent and purpose you are the 'inaccurate one'.
- Jun 30, 2014
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- #61
yes they did in
2010 44,307
2009 41,157
2008 40,688
yes they did play some finals in those years
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/attendances?year=2008&t=A&h=A&s=T
go back and read some facts
yes they did in
2010 44,307
2009 41,157
2008 40,688
yes they did play some finals in those years
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/attendances?year=2008&t=A&h=A&s=T
go back and read some facts
Awesome. So you are going to compare St Kilda crowds like for like in seasons where they play 26 games instead of 22. The 2010 season is makes for a great like for like comparison I mean between both fixtures that game drew in excess of 193,000!
That's a bit like me saying that Hawthorn's average crowds in 2008, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 were:
2008 - 46,576
2011 - 43,194
2012 - 45,819
2013 - 45,769
2014 - 42,691 (with MCG PF and potentially GF's to come)
Including finals in attendance pissing contests is ridiculous. The reality is that St Kilda peaked in 2004/5 and 2009/10 with 37,000 to 39,000 across their regular season games in much the same Hawthorn have peaked in 2008/14 with 40,000 to 42,000 across regular season games (with the exception of 2011 which was 39,270). Finals distorts this figure as the Saints didn't play finals in 2012, 2013 and 2014 and their downturn in crowds reflects this (31,604, 28,857 and 27,504)
That's a bit like me saying that if Hawthorn make the GF this season we would be the highest drawing club for the season (we're currently 67,000 behind Collingwood and 75,000 behind Essendon). That in itself is ridiculous as we would have played an extra 2 finals in order to surpass Collingwood. On a like for like we were the 3rd highest draw for the season, 70,000 behind Essendon (3000 per match) and 140,000 behind Collingwood (6000 per match).
In this instance you're running with a truly nuffy argument
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In
Lol in jumper sales!!! Look at every other statistical data and Collingwood is always on top!
Lol in jumper sales!!! Look at every other statistical data and Collingwood is always on top!
Plus the jumper sales were taken from a 1 chain store. (Rebel).
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boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
Essendon aren't popular. There was a scientific poll on the HTB that showed we were screwed.
There are a number of famous-for-being-famous celebrities who have conclusively proved it is not just possible, but easy, to be both popular and screwed.
boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
Nope the poll showed our popularity was on the slide.
So clearly this financial evidence was fudged by an Essendon fan boi. Probably Robbo.
If it was Robbo, the fudge in fudged figures may be literal.
Use this knowledge wisely.
- Jun 30, 2014
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- #69
what ever finals or no finals look at the drop in fans as the team slides down the ladder
look at the drop in saints fans, look at the drop in the pies attendance this season. hawthorn's base will drop as well.
the interesting figure will be how they will react next season if the pies continue to slide down.
the same will happen to the hawks when their form drops away
The aggregate drop is obviously larger but the slide isn't as significant (it within the cluster of clubs that the AFL will allow given they control the fixture)...
The bigger clubs (the big four and for the sake of the argument Hawthorn) are protected due to scheduling. For example Hawthorn now play Collingwood / Geelong twice at the MCG in every season, in seasons where we are shallow our attendances are buffered by playing high drawing clubs in the MCG (we started to see this in 2009 and 2010 when the Hawks were 1-7 after 8 rounds). Its even more evident for Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and in some cases Richmond (although not against Collingwood) who are locked in to play early season fixtures every year. When one big club is down, another is up so the status quo is maintained (or so the theory goes)
For the smaller clubs, who aren't blessed with 10/12 games at the MCG (like the MCG co-tenants + Essendon) nor the sweetheart stadium deals they are completely exposed when form drops. This is why equalisation must exist...
In 2004/2011 the Saints were given commercially appealing draws and averaged 36923 to home and away games. Likewise from 2006/2010 the Dogs had a pretty good run of it and drew 33952 to home and away games. The Saints were in a cluster of clubs above middle, the Dogs a cluster of clubs below middle...both clubs haven't lost much in terms of total (same with membership), Saints 29340 since 2011 and the Dogs 25045 since 2010. Both clubs need 28,000 or so to break even at Docklands (or so its said)...so the fluctuation in on field performance is critical to the club making a profit/loss across the season.
That said looking at both clubs total numbers doesn't tell the whole story. Because St Kilda and Western Bulldogs play at Ethiad and aren't regarded to be high profile by nature they don't get to play Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton twice at the MCG. Instead of getting 30,000 or more Collingwood fans rocking up to their Friday Night / Saturday Night matches they are more prone to play GWS or North Melbourne in a Sunday Twilight slot to appease the broadcasters.
So where I'm going with this, the on field / off field prosperity curve is scaled in accordance with the bracket that the AFL pigeon holes the club into. Its why the same 6 clubs (with the exception of Adelaide replacing Geelong in 6th) have finished with the top 6 crowd averages for 8 years in succession
Not sure if trolling?
To a significant extent Collingwoods position at the top of these lists is the result if 10 years of contending for premierships. If the last 6-7 weeks proved anything, it showed that even Collingwoods crowds flop when they hit a run of poor form. Home crowds of just over 30,000 at the G and sub 50,000 crowds against big Vic clubs shows that a poor Collongwood on field will see crowds drop to unseen levels if this poor on field fortunes was to start at the beginning of the year and not emerge in the last qtr of the year. A year of crowds not too dissimilar to the Richmond crowds this year is a reasonable expectation.
The first test of Collingwoods position at the top of these measures will be to see how it gies in retaining it's 80,000 members in 2015.
Re the digital stats, on field firm is a massive driver of this. For instance, in the last 4-5 weeks Essendon closed the gap on Facebook likes between Essendon and Collingwood from 16,000 to 13,000 as Essendon won more games and entered a finals series. On field success drives engagement and support via likes and followers. This is Also evident in Hawthorns growth in these metrics over the last 18 months.
I still place greater emphasis on Superteam and Dreamteam club breakdowns as these are a national 'survey' across a huge survey size. It should be viewed as a serious survey of support. The AFL fans survey is another decent guide based on national data. However you do again see winning teams over achieve during their successful eras. Collingwood and Essendon are always 1 or 2 year in year out, only separated by a Geelong or Hawthorn in their contending years.
On merchandising, Essendon has held top spot in merchandising sales for years, irrespective of the Rebel jumper sales. I worked there about 10 years ago and at that time they sold the most AFL licensed product overall. Today they are still number 1, without premierships skewing the final full year outcome.
So with all that said and done, is club membership a reasonable metric of club support - with some degree of freedom around on field success?
Because it seems all other metrics support this view (West Coast / Fremantle low numbers notwithstanding)
Because it seems all other metrics support this view (West Coast / Fremantle low numbers notwithstanding)
BlackWhiteBlood
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avg attendances measured across the home and away season is the most reliable way to tell the most popular club. The bigger clubs will naturally get the better stadium deals and have deals with the MCG instead of Ethiad. Looking at long term figures is also a must as this should filter out 'fair weather' supporters who only turn up when the team is succeeding. Using http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/attendances?year=1993&t=R&h=A&s=T as the reference since 1990 (24 years), Essendon has average the most 6 times, and coming anywhere from 2nd to 5th in the other years. Collingwood has come out on top every other year, and the 6 years in the late 90's to early 2000's we came in second. Make of this as you will but we had some fairly horrid years in this period.
It would be interesting to see how Essendon's attendance figures are effected by playing home games at Ethiad (by choice mind you). It also shows just how important it is for supporters of clubs of the less popular teams to show up at home games to help their clubs raise mush needed revenue. As the gap between the rich and poor is only going to get bigger.
It would be interesting to see how Essendon's attendance figures are effected by playing home games at Ethiad (by choice mind you). It also shows just how important it is for supporters of clubs of the less popular teams to show up at home games to help their clubs raise mush needed revenue. As the gap between the rich and poor is only going to get bigger.
Oh and back on the topic Collingwood was giving away Collingwood jumpers with every Collingwood fan buying a 3 game membership for $100.00. Apparently Collingwood have 20,000 3 game members. So if Collingwood were not doing this then Collingwood would be ranked no.1 instead of 2!
Pretty good deal to sign up for $100.00 you get to go to three games and get a Collingwood jumper thrown in.
Still I stand by as well as 98% of big footy members that Collingwood is the most supported club in Australia.
Until Essendon start drawing bigger crowds (have not done this since 2004) Essendon were in the finals and Collingwood were in the bottom 4,get more members and start coming first in Facebook, twitter And fan survey's like afl.com and herald sun surveys then Collingwood is still the biggest club in Australia.
Pretty good deal to sign up for $100.00 you get to go to three games and get a Collingwood jumper thrown in.
Still I stand by as well as 98% of big footy members that Collingwood is the most supported club in Australia.
Until Essendon start drawing bigger crowds (have not done this since 2004) Essendon were in the finals and Collingwood were in the bottom 4,get more members and start coming first in Facebook, twitter And fan survey's like afl.com and herald sun surveys then Collingwood is still the biggest club in Australia.
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