Europa League 15/16

[Bojan KantKick]

You guys kept saying we won all of them when it was easy back then, so no that's not all I had to say!

pls quote me on that

 

[Cooldude]

pls quote me on that

Not you but jd said this

Five times five times thats all we ever here even though the comp only got real in the late 90s

EDIT: I remembered people lamenting how the CL comp isn't all that for a while after we won it coz it allows the 4th best team of the previous year like us "fluking" it to the top. And they want the old format of only reigning champions being in it, coz it was better back then

Then there are a group that says we won things when they were easier and it's actually harder now

So I'm not sure how my club can ever win anything and have it be recognized in anyway.

 

[joy division]

Look at the 32 sides in that comp and look at the 32 in this seasons. Take off the red glasses. The difference in class is catastrophic!

Linfield of Northern Ireland & no Barca, Juve or AC Milan

Not quite since the Uefa ranking system always had the best clubs playing in Europe in it. Wtf does not having Juve in there that year have anything to do with it? They hadn't even won anything in Europe in 1981! Milan didn't play champions league that year because guess where they were? Serie B.

What is an easier way into the final 16 of a comp? Finishing top 2 in the current format or beating superpower league winners like Oulun Palloseura, the mighty Valletta FC & Linfield of Northern Ireland?

Northern Ireland were in the same group as Spain in the 1982 World Cup, Northern Ireland finished first in the group. So I guess football in Northern Ireland was shite in 1981...

 

[Cooldude]

Not quite since the Uefa ranking system always had the best clubs playing in Europe in it. Wtf does not having Juve in there that year have anything to do with it? They hadn't even won anything in Europe in 1981! Milan didn't play champions league that year because guess where they were? Serie B.


Northern Ireland were in the same group as Spain in the 1982 World Cup, Northern Ireland finished first in the group. So I guess football in Northern Ireland was shite in 1981...

 

[moomba]

For me, only a proper league proves you are the best.

Knockouts, especially seeded knockouts are great to win, but don't really prove anything.

 

[jd2010]

Not quite since the Uefa ranking system always had the best clubs playing in Europe in it. Wtf does not having Juve in there that year have anything to do with it? They hadn't even won anything in Europe in 1981! Milan didn't play champions league that year because guess where they were? Serie B.


Northern Ireland were in the same group as Spain in the 1982 World Cup, Northern Ireland finished first in the group. So I guess football in Northern Ireland was shite in 1981...

And Milan had won a league title just a couple years before that. s**t like that happened in the 70s & 80s!

Oh yeah Northern Irish domestical football was a real force back then was it? Between 78-86 (4 years either side of that WC) their record in Europe....

P: 18
W: 3 (1 victory of note against CSKA Sofia)
D: 7
L: 8

Across the 8 seasons in question the got past the first round twice. Once against a mob from Luxembourg and the other time against Shamrock Rovers after 2 draws. ******* super power!

 

[BlueBen]

It seems that some need to realise that the best teams today/in the modern era weren't necessarily the best teams in years gone by, and vice versa.

Although these days they aren't the powerhouses they once were, teams like Red Star Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Club Brugge and Borussia Mönchengladbach were once very powerful sides. Are they going to win the European Cup these days? No. But they were a big deal once, and we shouldn't let their somewhat diminished status in the today's game to obscure that fact.

 

[jd2010]

What European Cup was harder to win for Liverpool 80/81 or 04/05?

80/81: 9 games in total (against Finnish league champs, Aberdeen, CSKA Sofia, Bayern & Real)
04/05: 13 games in total (against Monaco, Olympiakos, Deportivo, Bayer Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea & AC Milan)

Take out the 2 gimmes against the Finnish side and it's 7 games to win the thing. And you know what you did a fantastic job doing it. But it's 7 games compared to the 13 in 2004/05, and while Deportivo might have been a gimme they were in a group stage where just beating them wouldn't get you to the last 16. You had to fight and fight hard against the Greeks & Monaco just to get to the final 16. From there it's the same thing, 7 tough games which you pulled off again.

You can't tell me the 2 games against the Finns to get to the last 16 is tougher than the 6 games endured against Monaco, Olympiakos & Deportivo

 

[jd2010]

Although these days they aren't the powerhouses they once were, teams like Red Star Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Club Brugge and Borussia Mönchengladbach were once very powerful sides.

Am I talking about sides like that? No. I've mentioned that league champs from the likes of Northern Ireland, Luxembourg, Finland as the golden tickets to the round of 16

 

[jd2010]

How much longer until we have him back?

Back in training so hopefully back for Palace on Sunday if not probably the week after

 

[Cooldude]

What European Cup was harder to win for Liverpool 80/81 or 04/05?

80/81: 9 games in total (against Finnish league champs, Aberdeen, CSKA Sofia, Bayern & Real)
04/05: 13 games in total (against Monaco, Olympiakos, Deportivo, Bayer Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea & AC Milan)

Take out the 2 gimmes against the Finnish side and it's 7 games to win the thing. And you know what you did a fantastic job doing it. But it's 7 games compared to the 13 in 2004/05, and while Deportivo might have been a gimme they were in a group stage where just beating them wouldn't get you to the last 16. You had to fight and fight hard against the Greeks & Monaco just to get to the final 16. From there it's the same thing, 7 tough games which you pulled off again.

You can't tell me the 2 games against the Finns to get to the last 16 is tougher than the 6 games endured against Monaco, Olympiakos & Deportivo

I cannot speak for the Finnish sides or whatever coz I haven't seen them play so whatever I say about whether they're any good or not would be based on assumption

But I lived that 04/05 campaign as it happened in its entirety, and I can say that group stage and those 4 teams were not very good at all. That Olympiakos side only had one good thing going for them and it was a 33 year old Rivaldo's freekicks (which nearly was enough to do us for the group stage). Deportivo was getting pwned by Igor Biscan at their own turf, and Monaco was probably the best of the 4 teams but not by much. Yet we still scrapped through based on the finest of margins via 2nd in the group stages

We obviously improved in the knockouts, that Leverkusen side was not any chop either and we outplayed them easily. They finished 3rd the season before and 6th that same year I think? Obviously those Juve Milan and Chelsea sides were just amazing teams with some ridiculously great players so it was a huge effort to get over them with the shite that was in our squad

But if it was the old format then I think we would've gotten knocked out early based on our pretty shitehouse displays early on, we only got a crack at it because we qualified through 2nd in the group stages by a bee's dick. Not to mention we wouldn't have qualified for it in the first place under the old format

 

[jd2010]

I cannot speak for the Finnish sides or whatever coz I haven't seen them play so whatever I say about whether they're any good or not would be based on assumption

But I lived that 04/05 campaign as it happened in its entirety, and I can say that group stage and those 4 teams were not very good at all. That Olympiakos side only had one good thing going for them and it was a 33 year old Rivaldo's freekicks (which nearly was enough to do us for the group stage). Deportivo was getting pwned by Igor Biscan at their own turf, and Monaco was probably the best of the 4 teams but not by much. Yet we still scrapped through based on the finest of margins via 2nd in the group stages

We obviously improved in the knockouts, that Leverkusen side was not any chop either and we outplayed them easily. They finished 3rd the season before and 6th that same year I think? Obviously those Juve Milan and Chelsea sides were just amazing teams with some ridiculously great players so it was a huge effort to get over them with the shite that was in our squad

But if it was the old format then I think we would've gotten knocked out early based on our pretty shitehouse displays early on, we only got a crack at it because we qualified through 2nd in the group stages by a bee's dick. Not to mention we wouldn't have qualified for it in the first place under the old format

If it was the old format you guys wouldn't have been there either and I think we can both agree you guys were more than worthy winners that year! The Greeks & Monaco provided much sterner resistance than the mob you crushed 10-1 to get to the round of 16 back in 1980/81. My point all along has been that it was much easier (with seeded knockout ties) in the old format to get to the final 16 than it is now. Case in point you guys last season in a fairly weak group didn't manage to get through after 6 games, the 2 times you didn't manage that back in the 70s/80s was when you were unseeded and had to either face Notts Forrest or a powerful USSR Tibblisi side. Had Forrest not have been the seeded English side those two ties would have been against much weaker opposition.

 

[Zidane98]

Fairly weak group with Real Madrid in it? Turn it up. Basle are/were quality, they have knocked out Chelsea, United & ourselves back in the Owen days. Not an easy group by any means.

 

[jd2010]

Fairly weak group with Real Madrid in it? Turn it up. Basle are/were quality, they have knocked out Chelsea, United & ourselves back in the Owen days. Not an easy group by any means.

Basel and Ludgorets compared to some of the other sides you could have drawn was fairly weak.

Only side weaker you could have drawn than Basle were Zenit, according to the co-efficients. Are they an easier task than Basel probably not.

Big whoop you could have drawn Malmo instead of Ludgorets. Apart from that you're group could not have been any easier for you last season

 

[Cooldude]

If it was the old format you guys wouldn't have been there either and I think we can both agree you guys were more than worthy winners that year! The Greeks & Monaco provided much sterner resistance than the mob you crushed 10-1 to get to the round of 16 back in 1980/81. My point all along has been that it was much easier (with seeded knockout ties) in the old format to get to the final 16 than it is now. Case in point you guys last season in a fairly weak group didn't manage to get through after 6 games, the 2 times you didn't manage that back in the 70s/80s was when you were unseeded and had to either face Notts Forrest or a powerful USSR Tibblisi side. Had Forrest not have been the seeded English side those two ties would have been against much weaker opposition.

Well sure, but coz we were an amazing side back in 80/81 and reigning champions, we probably had the tools to crash inferior sides (like that 7-0 against Spurs in 78 ). If it was that Liverpool side of the 04/05 against that same Finnish side then who knows what happens.

We'll agree to disagree, but my point was that while you think there's a few dud games in the round of 16, to get there and qualify for it in the first place you have to win your own domestic league (in our case the English league), so that to me at least balances out the difficulty.

Well then again we probably wouldn't have met Forrest first up in the current format coz of the same country stuff anyway, and that Forrest side was by all accounts brilliant anyhow

Last season was just sad, apart from Real Madrid all the other 3 teams including us were just utter s**t, that sorta standard for the CL is actually kinda sad. I wouldn't think the Finnish sides back then would be inferior to that

 

[jd2010]

Last season was just sad, apart from Real Madrid all the other 3 teams including us were just utter s**t, that sorta standard for the CL is actually kinda sad. I wouldn't think the Finnish sides back then would be inferior to that

No doubt the talent doesn't spread like it used to in the mid-top leagues anymore but those weak seeded sides back in the day from Finland, Malta, Iceland, Northern Ireland etc. would be the equivalent of the sides that get knocked out in the early qualifying rounds these days

 

[Cooldude]

No doubt the talent doesn't spread like it used to in the mid-top leagues anymore but those weak seeded sides back in the day from Finland, Malta, Iceland, Northern Ireland etc. would be the equivalent of the sides that get knocked out in the early qualifying rounds these days

Well I wouldn't know coz I don't watch them so I gotta take your word for it, but a Brendan Rodgers side in Europe would probably come pretty damn close to losing to them

Anyway don't think we'll find agreement here so we'll agree to disagree

 

[jd2010]

Well I wouldn't know coz I don't watch them so I gotta take your word for it, but a Brendan Rodgers side in Europe would probably come pretty damn close to losing to them

Anyway don't think we'll find agreement here so we'll agree to disagree

I'll agree that Brendan Rodgers would find positives in the performance even if you guys managed a draw with the Maltese FA Cup finalist!

 

[Cooldude]

I'll agree that Brendan Rodgers would find positives in the performance even if you guys managed a draw with the Maltese FA Cup finalist!

Mate, show some sympathy for the suffering, reach out a helping hand and display your love

 

[jod23]

i'm not bagging Pool or scouse logic, i know your not jod so we can debate this. I just disagree with your point .....using your examples above, do you think the comp would be stronger in 2013 when Chelsea didn't win the league (previously) and in the season after your hypothetical of Barca not winning the league despite both teams being the previous years UCL champions?

Just cos i disagree with your point doesn't denigrate 4 of your European Cups....the comps were different for better or worse & probs a bit of both.

Someones talking about me. They must love me....

Oh....

 

[joy division]

And Milan had won a league title just a couple years before that. s**t like that happened in the 70s & 80s!

Oh yeah Northern Irish domestical football was a real force back then was it? Between 78-86 (4 years either side of that WC) their record in Europe....

P: 18
W: 3 (1 victory of note against CSKA Sofia)
D: 7
L: 8

Across the 8 seasons in question the got past the first round twice. Once against a mob from Luxembourg and the other time against Shamrock Rovers after 2 draws. ******* super power!

Haha you use an 8 year spectrum for me? *s sake. If you wanna go 1978-1986 in Northern Ireland, look at The Troubles they had in that period and give them credit for even being able to compete while there were 50+ random bombings going off a year and random kidnappings.

At least I kept it within 1 year of when you wanted to slag them off. I'm just saying that is where the competition was at THAT YEAR. Milan weren't in the league hence why they didn't play them, Northern Ireland deserved to be there, and Juventus weren't even a "European" club.

 

[jd2010]

Haha you use an 8 year spectrum for me? ****s sake. If you wanna go 1978-1986 in Northern Ireland, look at The Troubles they had in that period and give them credit for even being able to compete while there were 50+ random bombings going off a year and random kidnappings.

At least I kept it within 1 year of when you wanted to slag them off. I'm just saying that is where the competition was at THAT YEAR. Milan weren't in the league hence why they didn't play them, Northern Ireland deserved to be there, and Juventus weren't even a "European" club.

Like I said the Northern Irish sides barely got past the 1st round time after time that has nothing to do with how strong the national side was. Have a look at their side from back then I'd say most weren't playing domestically (for political reasons as well as it being a weaker comp than England). My point was more on seeded sides back then getting weaker passages into the final 16 than they do now. If the English champs could draw the Italian or German champs straight up it's a different story, that's not disrespecting those Maltese, Finnish or Northern Irish sides, it just is what is the likes of Linfield or Valleta aren't going to knock out a Liverpool

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Back in training so hopefully back for Palace on Sunday if not probably the week after

Rested for Goons in midweek? We'll need him for City at home.

 

[jd2010]

Rested for Goons in midweek? We'll need him for City at home.

We need all the points we can get he should play tonight

 

[go you pups]

Why is there CL talk in an EL thread?

Anyways.

3am KO

Dunno if il go to bed soon and get up at four and watch the second half