EXPANDING the SANFL - PROMOTION and RELEGATION ... its time!

Should the SANFL adopt promotion + relegation?

  • Yes

  • No


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Great8

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I heard there was someone playing at Central Districts. Only getting ressies games and getting $250 a game.
Was offered $800 to play at some SAAFL club.
Thats quite high for ressies. Most of the blokes I know get $40-80 a game. There were guys in Norwood's league GF side last year getting under $800. There are 4 guys at my local club getting more than that, 2 are on double that.
 

Great8

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Yes the SAAFL divisions have promotion and relegation and yes I agree.
Money is always the issue. A team promoted from the SAAFL to the SANFL would probably need to find $500k a year just to field a side and then half the amateur home grounds would also be unable to host SANFL games
 

Great8

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This is why I think promotion relegation would spark much more passion and interest in the State competition.
As for now its is a stale merry go round of a competition where not a lot attracts anyone to see or support local matches, Port and Crows having their up and coming reserves and developing drafts playing has sparked more interest amongst both my Port and Crow-loving friends.
In terms of relegation - look at the support that was thrown behind Port Magpies in 2009 when there were threats from the SANFL to remove them from the competition, supporters need a reason to get behind their clubs again, right now there is none.
do your friends attend many games?
Crowds have dropped off a fair bit since the reserves sides entered. At Crows SANFL games there is often under 200 Crows fans there.
Many people have walked away from the comp and wont return as long as the reserves are in the league. Plans are well under way to remove them within 2 years, one board member at Norwood even thinks this year could be the last year of the arrangement
 

AdsGoNads

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do your friends attend many games?
Crowds have dropped off a fair bit since the reserves sides entered. At Crows SANFL games there is often under 200 Crows fans there.
Many people have walked away from the comp and wont return as long as the reserves are in the league. Plans are well under way to remove them within 2 years, one board member at Norwood even thinks this year could be the last year of the arrangement

Yeah, lets be honest.. the SANFL is dead.
If they remove Port and Crows, that leaves them with 8 teams and they are hanging by a bootlace, the number of SANFL players being drafted into the AFL will decrease, draftees will begin to come from SAAFL clubs until the number slowly tips and then we will have our Promotion and Relegation as the SANFL will no longer exist leaving the Div A SAAFL to be the highest state competition.. It would be a shame to see the SANFL simply a memory in the halls of Adelaide Oval, but I guess it is the shadow of once was already.
 

marty36

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Yeah, lets be honest.. the SANFL is dead.
If they remove Port and Crows, that leaves them with 8 teams and they are hanging by a bootlace, the number of SANFL players being drafted into the AFL will decrease, draftees will begin to come from SAAFL clubs until the number slowly tips and then we will have our Promotion and Relegation as the SANFL will no longer exist leaving the Div A SAAFL to be the highest state competition.. It would be a shame to see the SANFL simply a memory in the halls of Adelaide Oval, but I guess it is the shadow of once was already.


Since the introduction of AFL reserves the crowds have dropped to an all time record low on average. So yes your right it is a shadow of its former self. The debate may be what has caused it. The fact the clubs couldnt decide if it was better to go alone without AFL influence and see if the true traditional supporters stuck around or try and feed of the AFL for supporters. As I said with an all time record low attendance, would this have occured if they went alone or not, no one knows the answer to this but looking at the numbers it appears the decision made is costing them, so you can only point to that and say the wrong decision was made, should have made it a true local comp!
 

Great8

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Since the introduction of AFL reserves the crowds have dropped to an all time record low on average. So yes your right it is a shadow of its former self. The debate may be what has caused it. The fact the clubs couldnt decide if it was better to go alone without AFL influence and see if the true traditional supporters stuck around or try and feed of the AFL for supporters. As I said with an all time record low attendance, would this have occured if they went alone or not, no one knows the answer to this but looking at the numbers it appears the decision made is costing them, so you can only point to that and say the wrong decision was made, should have made it a true local comp!
This so much. I warned my club at several meetings and the majority were dead against letting them in. Unfortunately the 1 person who had the vote went against the members wishes and that 1 vote was the differance. Most of us know where we stand in the scheme of things, it should be just a local comp. The SANFL clubs do a pretty good job in their zones and their talent id is pretty top notch. The SANFL is still a great breeding zone for the AFL. Im of the belief we should get rid of SANFL reserves and just have league, u18 and u16, the better kids will still get drafted and players at league level could float back to their grassroots club if not selected that week.
 

AdsGoNads

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This so much. I warned my club at several meetings and the majority were dead against letting them in. Unfortunately the 1 person who had the vote went against the members wishes and that 1 vote was the differance. Most of us know where we stand in the scheme of things, it should be just a local comp. The SANFL clubs do a pretty good job in their zones and their talent id is pretty top notch. The SANFL is still a great breeding zone for the AFL. Im of the belief we should get rid of SANFL reserves and just have league, u18 and u16, the better kids will still get drafted and players at league level could float back to their grassroots club if not selected that week.

Would removing the AFL 'reserves' teams make the SANFL more or less interesting?
 

Great8

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Would removing the AFL 'reserves' teams make the SANFL more or less interesting?
More interesting IMO. A lot of people have been scared away because they believe its only a matter of time before they reserves sides start winning the Premiership every year. They feel there is no way the clubs restricted by a cap can defeat those without. Was only a very good Norwood side that prevented it last year but many feel its only a matter of time. You also get games that are decided by how many inclusions there are, one week you could play the Crows and they are that substandard and then the next week with a few AFL inclusions they are a 10 goal better side, just luck of the draw. Some people would be happy for them to stay as long as there are more restrictions on them (limit the number of AFL players each week) or exclude them from finals
 
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Im of the belief we should get rid of SANFL reserves and just have league, u18 and u16, the better kids will still get drafted and players at league level could float back to their grassroots club if not selected that week.

Good idea IMO. Would strengthen the SAAFL, and would also cut costs for SANFL clubs (or at least allow them to offer more money to true senior talent, instead of seeing them leave for more money in SAAFL or country footy) and create a better pathway into senior footy for talented juniors, and create more of a connection between SANFL clubs and their local "feeder" SAAFL clubs as well.
 

AdsGoNads

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Good idea IMO. Would strengthen the SAAFL, and would also cut costs for SANFL clubs (or at least allow them to offer more money to true senior talent, instead of seeing them leave for more money in SAAFL or country footy) and create a better pathway into senior footy for talented juniors, and create more of a connection between SANFL clubs and their local "feeder" SAAFL clubs as well.

So whats the attraction of reducing the SANFL to minimal teams and preserving whats left its heritage?
 
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So whats the attraction of reducing the SANFL to minimal teams and preserving whats left its heritage?

I never said anything about doing away with clubs, just the Reserves grade. With the number of SAAFL clubs, and the money they offer in comparison to what an SANFL Reserves player would get, the latter is somewhat redundant these days. I don't see simply doing away with it, and using the SAAFL feeder clubs as "reserve" teams, as an attack or compromise on the SANFL's heritage, but merely an adaptation to the times.
 

AdsGoNads

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I never said anything about doing away with clubs, just the Reserves grade. With the number of SAAFL clubs, and the money they offer in comparison to what an SANFL Reserves player would get, the latter is somewhat redundant these days. I don't see simply doing away with it, and using the SAAFL feeder clubs as "reserve" teams, as an attack or compromise on the SANFL's heritage, but merely an adaptation to the times.

Could some of these SAAFL 'reserves clubs' eventually be promoted to become an SANFL league team?
 
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Could some of these SAAFL 'reserves clubs' eventually be promoted to become an SANFL league team?

Well, I've already advocated for a composite Hills side in this thread, and think that the Modbury/Tea Tree Gully area could also be represented in a side at SANFL level too (even though putting both in place would significantly damage recruiting zones/sources for the club I support). I don't know whether a "promotion/relegation" system is really the way to go to achieve that, though.
 

AdsGoNads

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Well, I've already advocated for a composite Hills side in this thread, and think that the Modbury/Tea Tree Gully area could also be represented in a side at SANFL level too (even though putting both in place would significantly damage recruiting zones/sources for the club I support). I don't know whether a "promotion/relegation" system is really the way to go to achieve that, though.

Should they get rid of recruiting zones all together?
 
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Should they get rid of recruiting zones all together?

I don't think so, but introducing two new sides in the areas I mentioned would severely cut into Norwood and Sturt's recruiting zones. Whether that's ultimately a good or bad thing for local footy, I don't know.
 

AdsGoNads

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I don't think so, but introducing two new sides in the areas I mentioned would severely cut into Norwood and Sturt's recruiting zones. Whether that's ultimately a good or bad thing for local footy, I don't know.

Surely smaller recruitment zones for clubs would allow them to invest more?
 
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Surely smaller recruitment zones for clubs would allow them to invest more?

Also gives them a much smaller pool of players to choose from. Take away the Tea Tree Gully/Modbury area and their portion of the Hills, and Norwood's metro recruiting zone would be miniscule and almost non-existent. Taking the Hills away from Sturt would seriously damage them too, and puts a lot of pressure on clubs like Unley and Goodwood to produce talent.
 
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AdsGoNads

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Also gives them a much smaller pool of players to choose from. Take away the Tea Tree Gully/Modbudy area and their portion of the Hills, and Norwood's metro recruiting zone would be miniscule and almost non-existent. Taking the Hills away from Sturt would seriously damage them too, and puts a lot of pressure on clubs like Unley and Goodwood to produce talent.

If the SANFL stated using some of their $ instead of just putting it away, we could see the SANFL field the 10 best Clubs in our state every year with Promotion and Relegation.

Just award the grand final contenders in the SAAFL with enough prize money to maintain a SANFL standard ground + bolster their Club for League footy!

We'd have a much more exciting State competition with depth on our hands.. Currently its just a merry go round.
 
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do your friends attend many games?
Crowds have dropped off a fair bit since the reserves sides entered. At Crows SANFL games there is often under 200 Crows fans there.
Many people have walked away from the comp and wont return as long as the reserves are in the league. Plans are well under way to remove them within 2 years, one board member at Norwood even thinks this year could be the last year of the arrangement

Come on, surely the SANFL won't throw away the $$$ the Crows pay each year, plus the extra home game clubs are getting. Plus you try kicking Port out. An SANFL without a Port Adelaide (Magpies or Reserves) would die much quicker.
 

marty36

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Come on, surely the SANFL won't throw away the $$$ the Crows pay each year, plus the extra home game clubs are getting. Plus you try kicking Port out. An SANFL without a Port Adelaide (Magpies or Reserves) would die much quicker.


Its about to die now with how they have set it up, given the 8 member clubs voted the two guest sides into the league, it could be considered their own problem. Unfortunatley the clubs felt a duty in assisting the two AFL Franchises to the demise of its own league.

Crowds are dropping the big issue will come when volunteers stop showing up as unlike the AFL franchises who are bankrolled, the SANFL clubs live on Volunteers, if these Volunteers feel like most supporters are about how the SANFL has lost its way, that is when clubs will really start to struggle.
 

Great8

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Come on, surely the SANFL won't throw away the $$$ the Crows pay each year, plus the extra home game clubs are getting. Plus you try kicking Port out. An SANFL without a Port Adelaide (Magpies or Reserves) would die much quicker.
The Magpies should of been out when Port joined the AFL but thats another story.
Clubs are actually losing money over the Crows deal, the money the Crows pay isnt covering the decrease in revenue from attendences or memberships. Fans are leaving in droves and many volunteers have walked away from the game. I know 4 clubs that have lost decent sponsors because of it also. Think you will find things change drastically at seasons end, not sure the clubs will force them out but there has been a proposal from a couple of clubs to put a player restriction in place similar to what the VFL had, one club wants a max of 12 AFL players per game another only wants 10. Still may be other proposals brought up at seasons end, will have to wait and see
 

Great8

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Its about to die now with how they have set it up, given the 8 member clubs voted the two guest sides into the league, it could be considered their own problem. Unfortunatley the clubs felt a duty in assisting the two AFL Franchises to the demise of its own league.

Crowds are dropping the big issue will come when volunteers stop showing up as unlike the AFL franchises who are bankrolled, the SANFL clubs live on Volunteers, if these Volunteers feel like most supporters are about how the SANFL has lost its way, that is when clubs will really start to struggle.
Unfortunatelt the SANFL clubs were sold up the river by the AFL clubs. There was rumours a couple of clubs were about to fold without cash injections so when the AFL clubs came calling offering up a yearly fee plus claims of getting increased crowds to games a few clubs (including mine) took the bait and accepted them in. In our case the overwhelming % of members said no as did the board but our delegate went against club wishes and voted for what he thought was right for the comp at the time
 

AdsGoNads

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Its about to die now with how they have set it up, given the 8 member clubs voted the two guest sides into the league, it could be considered their own problem. Unfortunatley the clubs felt a duty in assisting the two AFL Franchises to the demise of its own league.

Crowds are dropping the big issue will come when volunteers stop showing up as unlike the AFL franchises who are bankrolled, the SANFL clubs live on Volunteers, if these Volunteers feel like most supporters are about how the SANFL has lost its way, that is when clubs will really start to struggle.

Sounds like its time to give voting rights back to Port + allow Crows to also have a member on the SANFL board if they are any chance of becoming a genuine State League club.. Still would love to see the Promotion or addition of a couple of other Stale league sides.

Mt Gambier, Hills district, Port Lincoln Districts + Iron Triangle for the win!
 

AdsGoNads

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Unfortunatelt the SANFL clubs were sold up the river by the AFL clubs. There was rumours a couple of clubs were about to fold without cash injections so when the AFL clubs came calling offering up a yearly fee plus claims of getting increased crowds to games a few clubs (including mine) took the bait and accepted them in. In our case the overwhelming % of members said no as did the board but our delegate went against club wishes and voted for what he thought was right for the comp at the time

So what would that have done for the SANFL competition if they said no?

Sounds like two clubs would have folded creating a 6 team competition - the Maggies would have moved to a SAAFL model or VFL.
Promotion + Relegation surely would have been discussed at some stage, a 6 team competition is hardly going to stay alive for very long..
 
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