Expansion has gone too far

[master bate]

Last night was as a disgraceful game of footy I've ever seen in my life at any level of footy. I am positive a representative team from Melbourne metro leagues would have beaten both of last nights sides.

If last nights game was the example of what the lower tier of our elite comp is producing then yes we certainly need to divide the league with a relegation/promotion structure.

It was a pathetic excuse for a game of football.

Meh being on the pies vs kangas game, at least we will some decent coaching and silky footballers. Last night was a total embarrassment to the AFL.

They wouldn't. But not due to lack of skill compared to half the players out there last night but lack of elite fitness. Therefore they couldn't run with the AFL sides even young ones like Brisbane. Which is half of the problem.

I would suggest that most clubs have a player who is probably best 22 (or very close) who doesn't get a look in because they don't have the fitness for AFL footy. Dayle Garlett at the Hawks would've been an example. Tom Lee and Siposs at the saints, Kieran Harper at North, Sam Blease at Melbourne. Both of the Davey's probably were young and skilled enough to still be playing.

 

[Cmarsh]

Last night was as a disgraceful

If last nights game was the example of what the lower tier of our elite comp is producing then yes we certainly need to divide the league with a relegation/promotion structure.

I admire the promotion/relegation system they have in soccer. If the AFL had that in place, there would be no need for any talk of mergers or relocations. All current clubs could keep their identities without any compromise to their history. The hard part would be to convince current fans of AFL clubs to continue to support their team when relegated and go to games against Casey, Sandringham etc.

 

[Rob]

Yeah I guess so. Although the Giants have a stack of elite talent, albeit undeveloped.

But not just in terms of a close game, more the spectacle of 44 elite performers doing their thing as well. How many games can we say we truly sit back and see that these days, as a proportion of the total?

You also have to remember that the 900 or so players on AFL lists aren't the best 900 players in the country. The first 500 of those would be, but a lot of the rest are kids that, at this point in time, wouldn't be as good at the game as hundreds of 2nd tier mature age players that have played 100+ games of state league footy. In time most of them will probably end up better, but at the moment they're not and sometimes they can be thrown into AFL football too early. At least half a dozen, possibly more of the Brisbane team last night would be in that boat, and i'm sure Brisbane could have fielded a much better team if they were allowed to recruit players outside the draft direct from the state leagues on short term contracts.

That's not to say they should be, but the current structure of the AFL encourages clubs to recruit lots of kids and doesn't let them plug immediate gaps when unforeseen circumstances arise, like a big injury crisis. So you get players that aren't even remotely close to AFL standard getting games when much better players are playing elsewhere.

 

[Defacto]

i'm starting to get concerned with the interchange cap. its starting to have an affect on players, its increase the gap between the good and the bad. i think its going to return football back to the 90s

 

[OniAu]

Blame those in charge of the AFL.

- Expansion teams have thinned the talent even further.
- Sub Rule has fatigued players even more. Going to be more scrappy games (well thats its intention, to leave players on the field longer, apparently thats better for hte players, than being refreshed more often)
-Free Agency again is going to further add to talent leaving the bottom clubs for more successful teams.
-Clubs trialling internationals or bit part talents over pure footballers - A few are exceptions and have made it (Pyke, Kennelly) . But its sad that so many kids miss out on draft day yet we can allow an international player a spot on the list straight away. Where as those that miss out on draft day have to proove their worth in the vfl for years on years and get drafted at mature age. (knit picking i know, in short though why not put more time into home grown talent that know and love the game )

 

[Defacto]

I admire the promotion/relegation system they have in soccer. If the AFL had that in place, there would be no need for any talk of mergers or relocations. All current clubs could keep their identities without any compromise to their history. The hard part would be to convince current fans of AFL clubs to continue to support their team when relegated and go to games against Casey, Sandringham etc.

it would never work. a VFL/WAFL team could never compete against an AFL team, where do they find the talent?

it works in soccer because theres a massive pool of players to purchase

 

[EasternTiger]

Last night was as a disgraceful game of footy I've ever seen in my life at any level of footy. I am positive a representative team from Melbourne metro leagues would have beaten both of last nights sides.

If last nights game was the example of what the lower tier of our elite comp is producing then yes we certainly need to divide the league with a relegation/promotion structure.

It was a pathetic excuse for a game of football.

Meh being on the pies vs kangas game, at least we will some decent coaching and silky footballers. Last night was a total embarrassment to the AFL.

Does this mean Richmond will drop down the power rankings?

 

[tige19]

I admire the promotion/relegation system they have in soccer. If the AFL had that in place, there would be no need for any talk of mergers or relocations. All current clubs could keep their identities without any compromise to their history. The hard part would be to convince current fans of AFL clubs to continue to support their team when relegated and go to games against Casey, Sandringham etc.

Have a look at the ITM cup in NZ rugby union. They have a great system where the comp is still elite but it's promotion and relegation. There's been many years where some of the largest and most successful union sides have been playing in the lower tier league.

 

[tige19]

it would never work. a VFL/WAFL team could never compete against an AFL team, where do they find the talent?

it works in soccer because theres a massive pool of players to purchase

Redland bombers from the QAFL ( now NEAFL ) defeated the lions 2s by 100 points. Richmond 2s only limped past Coburgs VFL side on the weekend who have a budget of 70k.. The divide is next to nothing in actual ability.

 

[BF Tiger]

50% growth in team numbers without similar growth in population, or development of the game at lower levels... what could go wrong?

 

[SdKfz 181]

Are we doomed to the permanent prospect of a hell of a lot of poor football, as long as we persist with 18 clubs?

Just wait till we have 20 teams, highly likely in the next 10-20 years..

 

[SBYM]

Last night was as a disgraceful game of footy I've ever seen in my life at any level of footy. I am positive a representative team from Melbourne metro leagues would have beaten both of last nights sides.

If last nights game was the example of what the lower tier of our elite comp is producing then yes we certainly need to divide the league with a relegation/promotion structure.

It was a pathetic excuse for a game of football.

Meh being on the pies vs kangas game, at least we will some decent coaching and silky footballers. Last night was a total embarrassment to the AFL.

FMD...

And I thought the OP was an overreaction.

 

[Pessimistic]

Hit the boundary line !

Honestly theres always been crap. They replay the pf where stynes ran over the mark often.

Absolotely crap football from two physically spent teams. The reason the stynes penalty is significant is bucky would probably missed everything from a further distance out.

And that game keeps getting served up as a classic

 

[lamaros]

Perhaps, I dunno.

Maybe it's an expectation thing? The AFL is hyped beyond beyond belief. The marketing is ubiquitous in our community. We've seen so many aspects of the league compromised in the name of it being used as a marketing tool.

The gap in financials, resources and crowds between the top tier and the second (current state leagues) has never been so vast.

Maybe it just all creates the expectation of a super elite league.

It's like every aspect of the league has become that... Except the players themselves.

Umm... Fitzroy. St. Kilda. Etc.

There has nearly always be significant on field and financial gaps between clubs in the league.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Umm... Fitzroy. St. Kilda. Etc.

There has nearly always be significant on field and financial gaps between clubs in the league.

I would argue the gaps right now between Hawthorn and Brisbane puts that to shame. It's cavernous.

 

[Flukey!]

The OP has made a number of good points.
What is clear is that the gap between the top sides and what was dished up as football last night is enormous.
So while more teams might mean more money for Vlad and his commission cronies, it makes the gulf between the strong and weak teams even greater.

 

[Kwality]

Wasn't the talent spread across more teams in the old days with 30 odd teams across Vic, SA and WA?

The AFL was supposed to be elite, something the state based teams never were.

In WA, some of the country footballers played a few games only, some flew in each weekend in light aircraft & many of the underage champions just went back to the farm. It didnt stop the VFL clubs seeking them out with a bag of gold.

 

[Topkent]

A few guys are here have nailed it , they need to ban the interchange rotations and go back to maybe 4 a quarter , that way you could have great footballers and not just great athletes with footy skills

 

[JuddsABlue]

One issue with the expansion teams is because they were flooded with so much talent at the beginning, they have a whole lot of talent playing in the twos that wont get an AFL chance

If these players were allowed to develop at other clubs (Richmond or Brisbane for example) then these clubs would be that little bit stronger.

If you replace each clubs worst player with a younger talented player then they become a fair bit stronger. But its hard to identify these players now for trade options because they havent developed the way they wouldve at other clubs and havent gotten enough chances at AFL level and have lost their development years.

 

[Crawb]

What, crap players in the AFL!?! No...well I never...

 

[EasternTiger]

What has happened with expansion is clubs have overreacted to compromised drafts, and loaded up with second tier players. This situation will correct itself in a season or two. By that time the expansion clubs will be nigh on unbeatable.

 

[evo]

It's not a shot at Richmond or Brisbane or anybody else. We all know it's cyclical in this league and in a few years they'll be up there and this will be our own clubs.

hehe, i call bullshit. this was a veiled trolling of Richmond under the guise of concern for the game.

yes, we were ordinary last night but need i remind you last time we met your club we beat them.

 

[Seadog]

Skill level was worse in the 60s and 70s, where anyone who couldn't kick was deposited in the backline. The favoured kick by most backline players was the mongrel punt.

 

[MightyHawks]

I'm not sure why anyone was watching last night - surely you all had better things to do

 

[master bate]

A few guys are here have nailed it , they need to ban the interchange rotations and go back to maybe 4 a quarter , that way you could have great footballers and not just great athletes with footy skills

Doing that means even more talented players who don't have elite endurance go by the wayside. Good bye Dane Swan with your frequent interchanges. Good bye Dustin Martin with only running out half a game, your only a forward pocket now.

We need a way to make sure the best footballers are those with the most skills and athletic talents but not those who have to be the best endurance athletes.

To put it simply we need to make players run less. Shortening games, shortening quarters, shortening preseason from 5 months down to each club only starting in January. Changing the rules so that each player sticks in their position and doesn't run up and down the field nearly as much. I don't know what the answer is.