Extra leave for DV victims

[clogged]

Not necessarily, however there are workplace entitlements that some people will never have access to.

Parental leave, carer leave, flexible working hours (mostly afforded to working parents). Whatever. If a company wants to include it, have at it.
If it helps a person leave an abusive relationship, helps them with time for counselling, (often sessions only available during working hours), encourages people to get help, get their issue to court...

These are ultimately unavoidable facts of life. People have kids, get sick, lose loved ones. Domestic violence is a special carve out for what is or should be a relatively rare phenomenon, implicitly aimed at women, many of whom already have to battle the perception they will take more time off from work than men as it is. It does nothing to stop the problem of domestic violence, and does not solve the economic consequences of the crime.

It's just empty progressive feel goodery that modern left wingers seem to love. And I can't see why. It does not achieve anything meaningful.

 

[cartwright]

These are ultimately unavoidable facts of life. People have kids, get sick, lose loved ones. Domestic violence is a special carve out for what is or should be a relatively rare phenomenon, implicitly aimed at women, many of whom already have to battle the perception they will take more time off from work than men as it is. It does nothing to stop the problem of domestic violence, and does not solve the economic consequences of the crime.

It's just empty progressive feel goodery that modern left wingers seem to love. And I can't see why. It does not achieve anything meaningful.

is it?

I agree, there is the perception that women need to take more time off than men, already. No one is forcing anyone to take this leave. I'm presuming its still up to the person if they want to take annual leave to deal with these things...

It doesn't stop the problem of domestic violence, it is a step in stopping it from being swept under the carpet, and it does assist the victim to know their employer is open to the information that they are experiencing this. I do not see the big deal.

 

[clogged]

is it?

It's rarer than other forms of violence, which does not receive leave entitlements.

I agree, there is the perception that women need to take more time off than men, already. No one is forcing anyone to take this leave. I'm presuming its still up to the person if they want to take annual leave to deal with these things...

It doesn't stop the problem of domestic violence, it is a step in stopping it from being swept under the carpet, and it does assist the victim to know their employer is open to the information that they are experiencing this. I do not see the big deal.

The big deal is that workplace entitlements have on going implications for employers and other employees. ACTU want to make domestic violence leave standard across all industries. Is this really necessary?

 

[Slippery Pete]

It's rarer than other forms of violence, which does not receive leave entitlements.


The big deal is that workplace entitlements have on going implications for employers and other employees. ACTU want to make domestic violence leave standard across all industries. Is this really necessary?

Get ready for higher phone bills.

 

[romeoh]

That's a baseless assumption.

The stats I quoted show that non-domestic violence is about five times as prevalent as DV yet there is no special leave provisions for it being advocated.

There's a long list of social problems that impact employee's ability to be productive at work. It's discriminatory to pick out one of them for extra leave and not others.

Yep its a 'baseless assumption' but are you suggesting that employers don't offer lots of requested leave to victims of assault and rape? Is that really what you believe? The bosses aren't monsters Lester, so I consider it to be a pretty reasonable assumption.

 

[clogged]

Yep its a 'baseless assumption' but are you suggesting that employers don't offer lots of requested leave to victims of assault and rape? Is that really what you believe? The bosses aren't monsters Lester, so I consider it to be a pretty reasonable assumption.

Then why does there need to be a specific provision for a certain kind of violence?

 

[Taylor]

Then why does there need to be a specific provision for a certain kind of violence?

It's better politically to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing and the ACTU is as political as it is practical?

 

[romeoh]

Why?

Why not rape leave?

I am guessing that the differences in the crimes is a factor-rape and assault are generally outside the home and committed by a stranger. DV is usually in the house and committed by a wife/husband/partner/parent. So perhaps they are highlighting the insidious nature of an attack by a trusted person? And because family violence is increasing steadily, they are acknowledging its a problem so validating the need to address it by offering the leave? Am assuming that is why it is being given 'special' treatment?
Rape, I am assuming, that a victim gets all the leave they request but maybe there is a number for how much time one can take for rape/assault? Maybe Telstra has a set up for that already?
But yep, I take your point its a bit odd if other offences don't have a specified time, but a good idea and hopefully the other offences follow this lead.

 

[Taylor]

Most rape is by a trusted person.

At least that is what I thought.

 

[cartwright]

Most rape is by a trusted person.

At least that is what I thought.

Indeed. I also recall reading that almost all cases of DV against a woman, includes sexual assault.

 

[romeoh]

Most rape is by a trusted person.

At least that is what I thought.

Yep ok, you are right-significant number related or 'known'.
www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?Media_ID=72176
Well I don't know, maybe rape and assault at Telstra are uncommon events within their workforce and DV is becoming more frequent? Why would they do this?

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Indeed. I also recall reading that almost all cases of DV against a woman, includes sexual assault.

That doesn't sound right to me (though I admit I have no idea) - do you know where you read that? Interesting if true.

 

[Taylor]

Yep ok, you are right-significant number related or 'known'.
www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?Media_ID=72176
Well I don't know, maybe rape and assault at Telstra are uncommon events within their workforce and DV is becoming more frequent? Why would they do this?

I think it gets them some cheap points.

Like when Chevron have adverts on TV talking about how innovating they are.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Why?

Why not rape leave?

Why not indeed.

If it is something that people feel strongly enough about they are free to advocate for it in enterprise bargaining, as is being done with domestic violence leave. If you feel it is something that should be addressed, you could do that if you are covered by an enterprise agreement, if not you could advocate that it be policy of the organisation you work for.

 

[cartwright]

That doesn't sound right to me (though I admit I have no idea) - do you know where you read that? Interesting if true.

hmm I read it an article, had a search and can't recall where ... It was a social services worker stating it IIRC.... it does make some sense that an abusive person, is abusive ie. emotionally, physically, sexually. If I find it .. I'll post the link.

 

[Lester Burnham]

I am guessing that the differences in the crimes is a factor-rape and assault are generally outside the home and committed by a stranger. DV is usually in the house and committed by a wife/husband/partner/parent. So perhaps they are highlighting the insidious nature of an attack by a trusted person? And because family violence is increasing steadily, they are acknowledging its a problem so validating the need to address it by offering the leave? Am assuming that is why it is being given 'special' treatment?

A lot of guessing and assumptions in there.

One thing you didn't hedge was your claim that 'family violence is increasing steadily'. I have already refuted that. The police have targets to report more family violence.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/feminist-myths.1081910/page-22#post-36621006

Rape, I am assuming, that a victim gets all the leave they request but maybe there is a number for how much time one can take for rape/assault? Maybe Telstra has a set up for that already?
But yep, I take your point its a bit odd if other offences don't have a specified time, but a good idea and hopefully the other offences follow this lead.

Your assumptions are false. The 'other offences' do not qualify for a special category of leave. There is zero chance of this being applied to all victims of violence because the motivation behind the measure was 'Telstra's strong commitment to safety, workplace flexibility and gender equality'.

 

[romeoh]

A lot of guessing and assumptions in there.

One thing you didn't hedge was your claim that 'family violence is increasing steadily'. I have already refuted that. The police have targets to report more family violence.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/feminist-myths.1081910/page-22#post-36621006



Your assumptions are false. The 'other offences' do not qualify for a special category of leave. There is zero chance of this being applied to all victims of violence because the motivation behind the measure was 'Telstra's strong commitment to safety, workplace flexibility and gender equality'.

Obviously I am acknowledging that I don't know these things for sure. That is the point of the words I used. Like durr. Its called trying to reason based on reasonable man thinking.
In any case the stats say the offences have gone up-so anything else you are saying re reporting going up, is an assumption isn't it-not actual fact. The facts show it is going up. Look up Victorian Crime stats 2013-14.
www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?Media_ID=72176
Can you show me the link that says rape/assault aren't categorized under a special category( compassionate for example?) that allows them any leave required please?
And did you take note that Lay said the 'scourge of family violence was far worse that they had imagined.'? And how big the problem was and how much work needed to be done about it? All pointing to an issue that needs attention rather than everyone sooking it up perhaps?

 

[Lester Burnham]

Obviously I am acknowledging that I don't know these things for sure. That is the point of the words I used. Like durr. Its called trying to reason based on reasonable man thinking.
In any case the stats say the offences have gone up-so anything else you are saying re reporting going up, is an assumption isn't it-not actual fact. The facts show it is going up. Look up Victorian Crime stats 2013-14.
www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?Media_ID=72176
Can you show me the link that says rape/assault aren't categorized under a special category( compassionate for example?) that allows them any leave required please?
And did you take note that Lay said the 'scourge of family violence was far worse that they had imagined.'? And how big the problem was and how much work needed to be done about it? All pointing to an issue that needs attention rather than everyone sooking it up perhaps?

Which part of 'Despite rising family violence reporting driving up overall crime figures, women were far safer than in the past' did you not understand?

 

[romeoh]

Which part of 'Despite rising family violence reporting driving up overall crime figures, women were far safer than in the past' did you not understand?

Ok there is no issue with family violence in Australia and elsewhere, everyone can rest easy knowing they are safe in their own home.

Someone must let the victims of DV know -nothing to worry about.
Lay's claim, I am assuming Lester, is referring to the fact that there are more services available, or its PR exercise, because it is not a claim that the stats support.( and any basic research will show you that)

 

[clogged]

Why not indeed.

If it is something that people feel strongly enough about they are free to advocate for it in enterprise bargaining, as is being done with domestic violence leave. If you feel it is something that should be addressed, you could do that if you are covered by an enterprise agreement, if not you could advocate that it be policy of the organisation you work for.

The why not is that I don't believe workplace relations should be an extension of the criminal justice system.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Ok there is no issue with family violence in Australia and elsewhere, everyone can rest easy knowing they are safe in their own home.

Someone must let the victims of DV know -nothing to worry about.
Lay's claim, I am assuming Lester, is referring to the fact that there are more services available, or its PR exercise, because it is not a claim that the stats support.( and any basic research will show you that)

There's no evidence of greater domestic violence than previously. It's clear that the police invested resources in that area and had targets to meet. The opinion of Chief Commissioner Ken Lay is that women are far safer now than in the past.

That's not to say domestic violence is not an issue. It clearly is. But there are many social issues that impact employees' abilities to do their job. Singling out domestic violence over all other issues because it is seen to impact women more is discriminatory.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Another common leave provision that is inequitable is 'cultural leave'. Why do some employees get 10 days more leave than others because of their choice of culture?

 

[scon]

Another common leave provision that is inequitable is 'cultural leave'. Why do some employees get 10 days more leave than others because of their choice of culture?

Yeah I remember the form:Which culture would you like to tick the box on,the one which gives you an extra 10 leave days or the other one?

Singling out domestic violence over all other issues because it is seen to impact women more is discriminatory.

Should do nothing 'til every possible issue is identified,causation isolated,solution futureproofed;then implement a megatonne raft of legislative and IR changes which instantaneously transport humanity to Utopia.
Or just keep chipping away even if it's basically symbolic,corporate,societal PR.

 

[clogged]

More drivel from scon.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Yeah I remember the form:Which culture would you like to tick the box on,the one which gives you an extra 10 leave days or the other one?

Wut? I was talking about which sky fairy they believe in.