F-35 Joint Strike Fighter - Abbott agrees to buy more, more, more.

[little graham]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/i...tbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=technology

So effectively we will be paying billions for a tiger moth to replace me262's

 

[telsor]

Once again here is is the org structure for the army; note the 1st division,
View attachment 151946

The army structure is designed to be flexible.

Generally, we'd operate at no larger than a Brigade level, so that's the level that reports to forces command, but the 1st Div exists 'in case' we need a multi-Brigade structure, in which case other units would be moved/attached to it.

2nd Div is pretty much for organising reservists and training and would be unlikely to exist in an operational capacity.

 

[Elroo]

The army structure is designed to be flexible.

Generally, we'd operate at no larger than a Brigade level, so that's the level that reports to forces command, but the 1st Div exists 'in case' we need a multi-Brigade structure, in which case other units would be moved/attached to it.

2nd Div is pretty much for organising reservists and training and would be unlikely to exist in an operational capacity.

And?

 

[telsor]

And?

So what was your point with 'note the 1st division'?

I explained why it's deliberately 'empty', but still exists.

 

[Power Raid]

Interesting graph

 

[Max zero]

Show me where i stated that "since the new submarines will have different crew requirements that any shortage on Collins class didn't matter"?

As per my multiple posts coĺlins class submarine manning does not equal the same manning levels on a future submarine

So what did you mean by that? Do you expect future manning to be less or more? Based on the designs the navy has been looking at it seems to be more.

 

[little graham]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-26/defence-sa-new-ceo-andy-keough/6648732

SA Defence Industries Minister Martin Hamilton-Smith said Mr Keough would bring valuable experience to his new role."Mr Keough is a globally recognised expert in submarine warfare and shipbuilding, who comes to us from the corporate sector. This is a coup for South Australia," he said.Premier Jay Weatherill also said he was pleased with the appointment."The state has secured a highly respected submariner with outstanding strategic and management abilities," he said.Mr Keough served in the Royal Australian Navy for more than two decades, commanding two Collins Class submarines, the Waller and the Sheean, and joined ASC in 2009

 

[Power Raid]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-26/defence-sa-new-ceo-andy-keough/6648732

A commanding officer is a seamen officer. what would his role be?

sounds like lobbying from the article

 

[little graham]

A commanding officer is a seamen officer. what would his role be?

sounds like lobbying from the article

The liberals can't look this campaigner in the eye and tell him the Jap subs are what we need. This guy won war games against american carrier fleets.

 

[smokingjacket]

Am I right in saying that the Navy has now decided the F-35 won't be used in jump operations from the new Naval vessels being built?

 

[Malifice]

Am I right in saying that the Navy has now decided the F-35 won't be used in jump operations from the new Naval vessels being built?

They're never intended to be.

The flight deck needs to be super heat treated from memory. I think the USMC carriers have the same dramas and have to be refitted to carry them.

Could be wrong though.

 

[madmug]

They're never intended to be.

The flight deck needs to be super heat treated from memory. I think the USMC carriers have the same dramas and have to be refitted to carry them.

Could be wrong though.

I wonder why it has the ski jump deck then? Its no use to helicopters is it? It must have some STOVL capacity in mind one would think, maybe?

 

[Power Raid]

The liberals can't look this campaigner in the eye and tell him the Jap subs are what we need. This guy won war games against american carrier fleets.

I have no doubt he can have an input into the types of equipment that works and doesn't work (limited to what he has used (not, not used) but that is the fit out component not the sub itself. This doesn't really have value as our systems will be dictated by what the yanks use anyway.

 

[Power Raid]

I wonder why it has the ski jump deck then? Its no use to helicopters is it? It must have some STOVL capacity in mind one would think, maybe?

retention of the original design which provides flexibility in the future

 

[Malifice]

retention of the original design which provides flexibility in the future

Also provides for fully sick BMX jumps off the front of the landing deck.

 

[Power Raid]

Also provides for fully sick BMX jumps off the front of the landing deck.

They banned water skiing of the back of the ships and the choppers in the nineties.

I'll see if I can dig up pics

 

[Malifice]

And this seems to confirm what I was on about re the decks on the LHD's:

Under the current situation, not only will all of the prior LHD "Wasp" class of ships have issues with deck heating from sustained F-35B and MV-22 operations, but the very ship that was tailor-built for these aircraft, the new $6B LHA "America" class, which gave up its ability to launch Marine landing craft from its stern in the process, will also be similarly effected.

Great article by the way. Really eye opening on the problems of trying to make a single air frame do three roles (STOL/ Carrier launch and conventional) all at the same time. The compromises to the air frame in maintaining 'commonality' are what is leading to sub-par aerodynamics.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/7-things-the-marines-have-to-do-to-make-the-f-35b-worth-1560672069

 

[jerry springer]

A commanding officer is a seamen officer. what would his role be?

Not always anymore.

My last CO on a ship was a communications officer. He just deferred the driving to the Nav.

 

[telsor]

And this seems to confirm what I was on about re the decks on the LHD's:

Under the current situation, not only will all of the prior LHD "Wasp" class of ships have issues with deck heating from sustained F-35B and MV-22 operations, but the very ship that was tailor-built for these aircraft, the new $6B LHA "America" class, which gave up its ability to launch Marine landing craft from its stern in the process, will also be similarly effected.

I think 'sustained operations' is important here....Keeping the ramp means they could, potentially, be used for a few F-35Bs ops if required (and considering we're not buying any, that'd be pretty rare).

 

[Power Raid]

I think 'sustained operations' is important here....Keeping the ramp means they could, potentially, be used for a few F-35Bs ops if required (and considering we're not buying any, that'd be pretty rare).

its probably capability creep too. We can't get budget funding (as easily) for increased capability but next time we can as it now forms a loss of capability if we lose it.

 

[telsor]

its probably capability creep too. We can't get budget funding (as easily) for increased capability but next time we can as it now forms a loss of capability if we lose it.

Militaries generally like options and will take as many as they can get funded.

 

[Power Raid]

Militaries generally like options and will take as many as they can get funded.

what cracks me up about our defence force was a security review in the 90s determined 8 blokes could disable our entire overseas capability.

fingers crossed they have addressed the issue but it does raise the question what we get for our $.

 

[Malifice]

what cracks me up about our defence force was a security review in the 90s determined 8 blokes could disable our entire overseas capability.

fingers crossed they have addressed the issue but it does raise the question what we get for our $.

The plan is to get 100 odd stealth multi role strike fighters, and to pair them along with no less than a dozen Growler EW aircraft (alongside our 6 Wedgetail AWACS). Thats 6 x F35's per Growler, and one AWAC per 12 x F35's.

More than enough air power to ensure air superiority against an attack from anyone other than a concerted and sustained attack from a super power (like China or the US).

 

[Power Raid]

The plan is to get 100 odd stealth multi role strike fighters, and to pair them along with no less than a dozen Growler EW aircraft (alongside our 6 Wedgetail AWACS). Thats 6 x F35's per Growler, and one AWAC per 12 x F35's.

More than enough air power to ensure air superiority against an attack from anyone other than a concerted and sustained attack from a super power (like China or the US).

That's all well and good but our entire navy fleet could be wiped out by 2 divers on certain nights of the year. I don't recall how the other 6 were to be utilised but they were allocated the task of taking out the airforce.

I'm sure they have fixed the issue in light of terrorism.

 

[Malifice]

That's all well and good but our entire navy fleet could be wiped out by 2 divers on certain nights of the year.

6 Subs, 8 Frigates and 4 (ancient) 4500 ton Adelaide class Destroyers form the core of the navy at the moment (with 3 Aegis equipped shiny new 6500 ton destroyers on the way to replace the old Adelaide class). There are a dozen blue water patrol boats (commercial shipping patrols and pirates only) and the rest are troop transports and support ships. All based (largely) at Perth and Sydney (each base also maintains a special forces quality clearance diving unit), with main training conducted on Melbourne (down at Crib Point) and production in Adelaide, with many of the fleet staggering deployments around the world on operations or exersizes.

How are 2 blokes going to destroy our Navy?

I don't recall how the other 6 were to be utilised but they were allocated the task of taking out the airforce.

The fighter squadrons alone are spread out around Australia. And the aircraft themselves are individually stored in separate bunkers and grouped for maintenance in the odd hangar.

Again, I cant see it happening.

Dont underestimate our intelligence services (Defence signals directorate, ASIO, ASIS etc) to detect any threat well in advance of it occurring. We're spying on everyone (and vice versa) and would know months if not years in advance if a concerted attack from a foreign State was coming our way. Also; allies.

A planned concerted attack and invasion of Australia by anyone short of the USA would only occur during a third world war (or it would start one).