F-35 Joint Strike Fighter - Abbott agrees to buy more, more, more.

[CbayT]

Well that applies to us as well. What countries have the logistics or the desire to invade a wide brown land like ours? The USA, umm, err. Well thats about it as far as the capacity to do so sits.

I've said B4, we need a good submarine force. Thats about it when it comes to real defense. Other than that a country of our size & wealth needs a good coast guard & good humanitarian support systems & equipment. That includes small & efficient navy surface assets like the AWDs & helicopter carriers. Also small & efficient Army & Airforce units to protect the other units mentioned. Forget the Abrams & such heavy equipment.

Really, whats more important, the new technology & 'versatility' of the F35 aircraft, or the weapons the other planes carry. I dont see why we need to spend so much on a new set of wings. Do we need 'that' plane?. Or something much cheaper thats 'nearly' as good & carries good avionics & weapons?

It wont be long B4 we're using unmanned aircraft anyway.

Some of this is true Canada has for along time not kept up with defence because they don't have too. Australia on the other hand need to protect its sea lanes which means high tech aircraft subs preferably a dozen of nuclear ones and some blue water capability ie destroyers

 

[Belnakor]

Well that applies to us as well. What countries have the logistics or the desire to invade a wide brown land like ours? The USA, umm, err. Well thats about it as far as the capacity to do so sits.

I've said B4, we need a good submarine force. Thats about it when it comes to real defense. Other than that a country of our size & wealth needs a good coast guard & good humanitarian support systems & equipment. That includes small & efficient navy surface assets like the AWDs & helicopter carriers. Also small & efficient Army & Airforce units to protect the other units mentioned. Forget the Abrams & such heavy equipment.

the problem is the next stage of subs is nuclear.

it is kind of silly because if we had nuclear subs we wouldn't need to buy as many planes, tanks etc. But because it sounds bad we can't have them. Speak to any one in the navy and they know we need nuclear subs if we want to take the next step.

 

[madmug]

the problem is the next stage of subs is nuclear.

it is kind of silly because if we had nuclear subs we wouldn't need to buy as many planes, tanks etc. But because it sounds bad we can't have them. Speak to any one in the navy and they know we need nuclear subs if we want to take the next step.

I'd love it if we had 6 hunter killer nuke subs. For 'defence', we wouldnt need much else. With the new look at nuclear power, we could have the infrastructure to support such subs.

We certainly dont need the flakey F35 pigeons.

 

[Dagger5]

The next block IV Virginia class SSN will be perfect for our needs and I think if we really twisted the arm of the US, they would sell them to us plus not to mention they would be about $2b a pop which would be cheaper than the submarines we plan to buy plus not to mention have much more capability.

 

[madmug]

The next block IV Virginia class SSN will be perfect for our needs and I think if we really twisted the arm of the US, they would sell them to us plus not to mention they would be about $2b a pop which would be cheaper than the submarines we plan to buy plus not to mention have much more capability.

Yes, but the SA's might not like it.

Maybe we could just resurrect the car industry for them? A win/win?

 

[Grin]

Yes, but the SA's might not like it.

Maybe we could just resurrect the car industry for them? A win/win?

Very funny.

The destruction of much of our manufacturing industry will have long term economic ramifications.

 

[Power Raid]

Very funny.

The destruction of much of our manufacturing industry will have long term economic ramifications.

100% agree

Its a shame the left wingers wouldn't listen to the warnings until it was too late.

 

[Grin]

100% agree

Its a shame the left wingers wouldn't listen to the warnings until it was too late.

Yep. Unions were in control of the Abbott government when it made the decision to shut down vehicle manufacturing in Australia.

 

[Elroo]

It appears we only have 30 days of Avgas in Australia and even that is stored in the SE and would have to be shipped to ports in the North and NW to fill the Avgas stores at the remote airfields.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/i...ict-report-warns/story-fnpjxnlk-1227591357102

RAAF war planes would run out of fuel just 30 days into a major conflict due to a dangerous shortage of aviation fuel, a report has warned.

The sobering news comes as defence sources suggest that the new Defence White Paper might not be released until after Christmas and possibly not until after the next election.

With new Defence Minister Marise Payne grappling with the complex portfolio, the much anticipated and fully-funded national strategic document is under fresh financial pressure as the Turnbull Government struggles with a growing deficit and considers an election early in 2016.

Meanwhile, a new report by the taxpayer-funded Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) lists the lack of Avgas as a medium level threat to air force operations in its new capability snapshot of the Australian Defence Force.

Apart from having a reserve supply of just 30-days, the defence force would be forced to ship supplies north to its bare bases at RAAF Curtin near Derby in Western Australia and RAAF Scherger near Weipa in the Gulf of Carpentaria.

Both are connected by pipeline to the port but the resupply would take many days from storage depots in Perth or Brisbane.

Report author Andrew Davies said Australia had just 30 days supply of all fuels in storage and another 30 days in transit. That is well below the international norm of 90 days.

“We’d struggle after a month with avgas,” Dr Davies said.

The report says that Australia’s refinery capacity had declined in the past five years, leading to a national vulnerability to the disruption of fuel supplies, especially supplies of specialised fuels such as avgas.

 

[Power Raid]

Yep. Unions were in control of the Abbott government when it made the decision to shut down vehicle manufacturing in Australia.

I was referring to the issues that kill manufacturing like poor IR that saw so many pay scales, demarcation and strikes.

Issues that experimented with power generation that saw places like SA becoming one of the most expensive in the world.

The added pain of a carbon tax just to gain power.

The issues at our ports and corruption in the manufacturing and building unions.


It is a shame that the left continue to hurt our blue colour workers and our most vulnerable. The short sightedness and short termism is unbelievable.

 

[rodney hoo]

I was referring to the issues that kill manufacturing like poor IR that saw so many pay scales, demarcation and strikes.

Issues that experimented with power generation that saw places like SA becoming one of the most expensive in the world.

The added pain of a carbon tax just to gain power.

The issues at our ports and corruption in the manufacturing and building unions.


It is a shame that the left continue to hurt our blue colour workers and our most vulnerable. The short sightedness and short termism is unbelievable.

Mate you want to stay away from the news limited media.

 

[Gough]

Perhaps if the Liberal state government had privatised ETSA power prices might be lower.

 

[Power Raid]

Mate you want to stay away from the news limited media.

manufacturing is generally not a cost plus business rather you compete on quality and in the the case of family cars price. All of those issues added up and exceeded the subsidies on offer.

Also adding to the pain was the FX which went sky rocketing as Rudd was terrified of a recession under Labor's watch. In response to his fear and ego, he over cooked the stimulus which saw interest rates higher than they should have been which translates to higher FX.

Short term gain for long term pain!

 

[Power Raid]

Perhaps if the Liberal state government had privatised ETSA power prices might be lower.

power is a cost plus business as gvt can't afford to go without power. Perhaps we should have rolled out the new technologies within a strategy for power rather than what was good for political careers.

Perhaps SAs should hand over control of key infrastructure portfolios such as power, water and ports to states or other nations that can manage these for them until the state can stand on its own two feet.

 

[Play by Numbers]

I was referring to the issues that kill manufacturing like poor IR that saw so many pay scales, demarcation and strikes.

Issues that experimented with power generation that saw places like SA becoming one of the most expensive in the world.

The added pain of a carbon tax just to gain power.

The issues at our ports and corruption in the manufacturing and building unions.


It is a shame that the left continue to hurt our blue colour workers and our most vulnerable. The short sightedness and short termism is unbelievable.

Carbon tax had nothing to do with it. The cost of power increased largely because of failed privatisation

 

[Play by Numbers]

power is a cost plus business as gvt can't afford to go without power. Perhaps we should have rolled out the new technologies within a strategy for power rather than what was good for political careers.

Perhaps SAs should hand over control of key infrastructure portfolios such as power, water and ports to states or other nations that can manage these for them until the state can stand on its own two feet.

Mal investment, driven by dodgy forcasting and tax incentive is what drove up the cost of power, not type of generation

 

[Power Raid]

Carbon tax had nothing to do with it. The cost of power increased largely because of failed privatisation

the carbon tax was very much to blame as it stopped sensible investment for a significant period of time due to uncertainty and then the crazy investments in power generation that simply didn't make sense.

 

[little graham]

I guess we should have learned from the rainbow Warrior.

Bloody French

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I was referring to the issues that kill manufacturing like poor IR that saw so many pay scales, demarcation and strikes.

Issues that experimented with power generation that saw places like SA becoming one of the most expensive in the world.

The added pain of a carbon tax just to gain power.

The issues at our ports and corruption in the manufacturing and building unions.


It is a shame that the left continue to hurt our blue colour workers and our most vulnerable. The short sightedness and short termism is unbelievable.

yes, australia should have just accept having working poor.
hell were heading there anyway just go full ******* and stop pretending we care about our "fellow australians"
what's important is you can get an aussie made car for 11K which you can use to avoid the ghettos the public transport systems pass through.

the decline in aus manufacturing is a direct result of one sided free trade agreements which didn't factor in the local economic situation in corresponding countries. Anyone with half a brain could see it coming. hell ad's were run warning of this very outcome. "union smear campaigns" people said. "proper protections are place" we were assured. Now after their warnings went unheeded and the manufacturing collapsed as they warned it would, you try to blame them for it?

show me a single car (outside the luxury market) on the australian market where the manufacturer isn't owned or heavily subsidized by a national government? it was not australian IR laws that oversaw the downfall of manufacturing nor was it the free market. In almost every case where our business went off shore then foreign locations were partially or fully funded by their government.

 

[madmug]

yes, australia should have just accept having working poor.
hell were heading there anyway just go full ******* and stop pretending we care about our "fellow australians"
what's important is you can get an aussie made car for 11K which you can use to avoid the ghettos the public transport systems pass through.

the decline in aus manufacturing is a direct result of one sided free trade agreements which didn't factor in the local economic situation in corresponding countries. Anyone with half a brain could see it coming. hell ad's were run warning of this very outcome. "union smear campaigns" people said. "proper protections are place" we were assured. Now after their warnings went unheeded and the manufacturing collapsed as they warned it would, you try to blame them for it?

show me a single car (outside the luxury market) on the australian market where the manufacturer isn't owned or heavily subsidized by a national government? it was not australian IR laws that oversaw the downfall of manufacturing nor was it the free market. In almost every case where our business went off shore then foreign locations were partially or fully funded by their government.

Look its just easier to blame unions & 'lefties'. Why look at other parts of the world, it doesnt suit the political imaginations & philosophy of the 'righties'. So as the manufacturing jobs go overseas, they can then blame unemployment on people being lazy. Its easy if you follow the 'righty' mantra. If you weren't born in the right family or went to the right school, & their arent as many menial labor jobs about, then you are simply lazy. Its your fault. Its the unions fault, its the ALP's fault.

Nothing to do with lazy businesses nor Gument policy, is it.

 

[Power Raid]

yes, australia should have just accept having working poor.
hell were heading there anyway just go full ******* and stop pretending we care about our "fellow australians"
what's important is you can get an aussie made car for 11K which you can use to avoid the ghettos the public transport systems pass through.

the decline in aus manufacturing is a direct result of one sided free trade agreements which didn't factor in the local economic situation in corresponding countries. Anyone with half a brain could see it coming. hell ad's were run warning of this very outcome. "union smear campaigns" people said. "proper protections are place" we were assured. Now after their warnings went unheeded and the manufacturing collapsed as they warned it would, you try to blame them for it?

show me a single car (outside the luxury market) on the australian market where the manufacturer isn't owned or heavily subsidized by a national government? it was not australian IR laws that oversaw the downfall of manufacturing nor was it the free market. In almost every case where our business went off shore then foreign locations were partially or fully funded by their government.

the working poor? what are you banging on about?

are you confusing the issue of crazy pay scales and a take home wage?

 

[Power Raid]

Look its just easier to blame unions & 'lefties'. Why look at other parts of the world, it doesnt suit the political imaginations & philosophy of the 'righties'. So as the manufacturing jobs go overseas, they can then blame unemployment on people being lazy. Its easy if you follow the 'righty' mantra. If you weren't born in the right family or went to the right school, & their arent as many menial labor jobs about, then you are simply lazy. Its your fault. Its the unions fault, its the ALP's fault.

Nothing to do with lazy businesses nor Gument policy, is it.

no corruption in the unions then?

and corruption doesn't effect business and business risk?

and the FX wasn't pumped sky high due to a stimulus package that over-cooked the economy?

and the energy policy in states like SA weren't ballsed up due to popular policy which saw the introduction of the most expensive unreliable power generation solutions.

hmmm nothing to see here.....especially in our industrial belts in the coming years

 

[Maggie5]

Thought for a minute that they may have been so something new on the purchase of these lemons, but non, PR Union bashing still. LOL

 

[Sydney Bloods]

can these planes fly yet?

 

[WA ROO]

can these planes fly yet?

These things are cutting edge
Up there with the Sopwith Camel and the Fokker Dreidecker



Sooner Australia drops this lemon the better