Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

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Kidd Vicious said:
Anyone who believes that equality of opportunity exists didnt do the required reading after 1st year uni.
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Uh, in Australia women can do anything they want in life. That equates to equality of opportunity.

Is this required reading in some arts degree in women's studies?
 
romeohwho said:
Haha crikey-look at the wagons circling lads.
Gus-yep-if a young male is out in the city at 2am etc, he is more likely to be involved in a fight. Not arguing with that. But that is not the scenario I gave you, is it? If, when the time comes, you are happy for your daughter to walk home from a train at midnight, then you are tougher than me.
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Comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

You gave me the scenario, I answered. I said I'd not let EITHER of my children walk home from a station late at night.

At no point did I say I'd be happy for my daughter to walk home from a train late at night. I said I'd be equally worried that any of my kids had to do that.

Your scenario proved you rate a girls safety above a boys.
 

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Gus Poyet said:
What is balanced about anything you have said? You've shown zero balance in the discussion. Everything you've stated has been against equality and been about placing the females safety above the males.

I've stated that both are as important to me as the other. And yet like a (rabid) feminist, you look to question my opinion as though you know better and you know the answer to how all parents think.


Unsubstantiated claims? That would be you.

I'll use a graph to demonstrate how my son is far more likely to be the victim of an assualt than my daughter. Thus validating a decent parents concern that a son is just as unsafe out at night as a daughter. And not simply going on as you put it "the reality of which gender you perceive to be more vulnerable coming home on the train late at night"

Think i'll go with cold hard stats over some nonsensical "perceptions" when taking my childrens safety into consideration. Their safety deserves more than to go on simply a "perception".

fig015.png


http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/violent crime/assault.html

See that 15-24 group? My kids are in that. According to you though I need to have more concern for my daughter than my son.

Beggars belief.
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If I was to show you a graph of average superannuation balances at retirement it would show an inequity between male and female which some people would use as evidence that women are hard done by and use it to support the notion that females should have their super contributions increased. You would, quite rightly, point out that lifetime super is a product of not only the amount a person is paid but also the amount of time spent in the workforce and that because women are far more likely to spend less time in the workforce predominantly due to having children at some point then it stands to reason that they'll have less super. It's not discriminatory but a logical outcome of women spending more time giving childbirth and raising children than men.

Now I know the above has nought to do with acts of violence but I'm using it as an example of how raw statistics can be skewed to support a position that whilst true on face value doesn't hold up to more thorough scrutiny. Your graph is the same.

Yes on face value the number of violent assaults are higher for men across all age demographics and the 15-24 and 25-44 figures are disproportionately higher than the other age groups. You don't think that this is, at least in part, due to young males (15-24) and older males that should know better (25-44)being more likely to put themselves at risk of being attacked? For example (and this is just my own perception/anecdotal admittedly) how often would a young man be inclined to walk home by himself in comparison to a female. How often do you see large groups of females out late at night behaving aggressively in comparison to groups of males? The raw numbers are higher because men place themselves in riskier situations far more often so I don't believe your graph disproves the notion that a female walking home alone late at night is more at risk of being assaulted than a male.

I'll also add that the prospect of a female being sexually assaulted is more frightening than the prospect of a male being physically assaulted
 
Keyser Soze said:
Yes on face value the number of violent assaults are higher for men across all age demographics and the 15-24 and 25-44 figures are disproportionately higher than the other age groups. You don't think that this is, at least in part, due to young males (15-24) and older males that should know better (25-44)being more likely to put themselves at risk of being attacked? For example (and this is just my own perception/anecdotal admittedly) how often would a young man be inclined to walk home by himself in comparison to a female. How often do you see large groups of females out late at night behaving aggressively in comparison to groups of males? The raw numbers are higher because men place themselves in riskier situations far more often so I don't believe your graph disproves the notion that a female walking home alone late at night is more at risk of being assaulted than a male.
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It's quite common these days. They get pissed up and are just as aggressive as many of their male counterparts.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/04/30/tonights-insight-rise-young-female-violence

I've seen plenty of women over the years start fights that end up in men fighting. Are those incidents included in any statistics?

See when you say men place themselves in riskier situations you get away with it. When you say a woman does it you'll either get shouted down or sent a link to Reclaim the Night.

Actually no you wouldn't because...

- women and men – please be respectful of RTN events as women’s spaces -

- it really is ok for women to gather together in public without men –


Apparently it's only women who need to feel safe at night.




I'll also add that the prospect of a female being sexually assaulted is more frightening than the prospect of a male being physically assaulted
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Why? Because we place womens safety above mens?

I never understood this arguement. It's basically saying when a guy is facing a potentially life threatening event he could not even begin to think his experience is as personally terrifying as a woman who is getting attacked.

Even if the man has ten people laying into him, it still isn't as frightening as one person assaulting a woman.

That's how little males lives are valued these days.
 
Gough said:
One hundred years ago men's lives mattered so little we sent them to Turkey, and France, and Belgium to get shot up for no real reason, we're doing a little better than that these days.
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We're still not equal.
 
Gus Poyet said:
Comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

You gave me the scenario, I answered. I said I'd not let EITHER of my children walk home from a station late at night.

At no point did I say I'd be happy for my daughter to walk home from a train late at night. I said I'd be equally worried that any of my kids had to do that.

Your scenario proved you rate a girls safety above a boys.
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My experience tells me, that real or imagined, a female feels more vulnerable and will want to be picked up, the male won't. I too feel that young men can complete that journey more confidently. Its actually unlikely either will be troubled in that situation and any trouble is more likely to happen in the city. ( not on the train). Let's see how it pans out when your children reach that age.
ps. Its not actually anything to do with 'rating a girl's safety above a boys.' U cannot be cereal.
 
romeohwho said:
My experience tells me, that real or imagined, a female feels more vulnerable and will want to be picked up, the male won't.
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That has zero relevance to a parents concerns. Which of course is what we have been discussing.

My exprience tells me that my daughter who does MMA and has never experienced any kind of harrassment or violence and feels a hell of a lot less vulnerable than my son who has.

That's the great irony of modern feminism, it paints women as weak and as victims even if most aren't.




I too feel that young men can complete that journey more confidently. Its actually unlikely either will be troubled in that situation and any trouble is more likely to happen in the city. ( not on the train). Let's see how it pans out when your children reach that age.
ps. Its not actually anything to do with 'rating a girl's safety above a boys.' U cannot be cereal.
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Then why are you more concerned for the female? Why are you painting her as the more likely victim? When both male and female have similar chances of being a victim.
 
Gus Poyet said:
That has zero relevance to a parents concerns. Which of course is what we have been discussing.

My exprience tells me that my daughter who does MMA and has never experienced any kind of harrassment or violence and feels a hell of a lot less vulnerable than my son who has.

That's the great irony of modern feminism, it paints women as weak and as victims even if most aren't.






Then why are you more concerned for the female? Why are you painting her as the more likely victim? When both male and female have similar chances of being a victim.
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Pretty sure I don't see women are 'weak' as such. Just being realistic. My children are both very smart, athletic, very capable, resourceful. In a battle of wits-they'd come out on top. I trust them and their capabilities but I don't trust some others. When my son jumps off the train and jogs home- yep I do feel pretty relaxed. He most likely has an even chance if another male confronts him. When my daughter walks home -I feel less relaxed-she is more vulnerable because the person confronting her will almost certainly be male and he will be physically stronger. Simple fact. If another female confronted her, I'd feel less worried because she'd have an even money chance.
As I said-its all just talk on your part, speculation. You don't really know until you have been there and tested all your theories. What will you do, for example, if your son does not wish to be collected at the train? Or your daughter too for that matter? They are entitled to make decisions.
 
romeohwho said:
Pretty sure I don't see women are 'weak' as such. Just being realistic. My children are both very smart, athletic, very capable, resourceful. In a battle of wits-they'd come out on top. I trust them and their capabilities but I don't trust some others. When my son jumps off the train and jogs home- yep I do feel pretty relaxed. He most likely has an even chance if another male confronts him. When my daughter walks home -I feel less relaxed-she is more vulnerable because the person confronting her will almost certainly be male and he will be physically stronger. Simple fact. If another female confronted her, I'd feel less worried because she'd have an even money chance.
As I said-its all just talk on your part, speculation. You don't really know until you have been there and tested all your theories. What will you do, for example, if your son does not wish to be collected at the train? Or your daughter too for that matter? They are entitled to make decisions.
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You said it yourself. I don't trust others either. And that means I worry equally for my kids saftey.

I don't feel relaxed based on some misguided assumption that my son has an even chance against another person. That's why I put in place measures so they don't need to be exposed to such dangers.
 
Gus Poyet said:
You said it yourself. I don't trust others either. And that means I worry equally for my kids saftey.

I don't feel relaxed based on some misguided assumption that my son has an even chance against another person. That's why I put in place measures so they don't need to be exposed to such dangers.
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Whatever Gus-life is never that simple, but good luck with it all.
 

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CM86 said:
So you reply to this "attack" or "strawman"... But you can't actually respond when I've called you out?

I wonder why... ;)
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Can you bring up a quote of you calling me out on something and me not responding, so i may respond to you?
 
Vic Vinegar said:
Oh and feminist =/= female? Really?
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And why are the men who're calling out feminism's lies and hypocrisy in this thread being labeled as woman haters and misogynists if feminist=/= female? It's but one more example upon a mountain full of feminist/SJW contradictions.
 
romeohwho said:
My experience tells me, that real or imagined, a female feels more vulnerable and will want to be picked up, the male won't. I too feel that young men can complete that journey more confidently. Its actually unlikely either will be troubled in that situation and any trouble is more likely to happen in the city. ( not on the train). Let's see how it pans out when your children reach that age.
ps. Its not actually anything to do with 'rating a girl's safety above a boys.' U cannot be cereal.
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"a female feels", "I too feel". In true feminist fashion, feelz > realz.
 
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Gough said:
Not a single BF mangina on the short list. Lift your game chaps.
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We should have our own.

Tonight my wife is taking her friend out to the movies for her friends birthday and leaving me at home with the children. Is that worth a nomination?

I would add that they are seeing The Age of Adeline, I am pretty hung over from boys cards might last night anyway, and me and the kids will probably play video games the whole time, but I won't. That would just be covering up for the beta shame I feel.
 
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