Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

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You're extremely critical then of the mangina sjw feminist types then who scoff rebuke and ridicule stats like the one in three campaigns relating to male domestic violence victims? You'd be nothing but a hypocrite if you weren't.
Who are you really? Mottrain?
 
My main issue is the lack of focus on the safety of children in the public discourse, the fact that society seems hesitant to acknowledge the bad things women and mothers can do to their children(compared to fathers and men at least), and the fact that in the public sphere Australia seems to care more about women than children.

If men were responsible for the vast majority of child abuse in Australia I truly believe more public attention would be given to the issue.

I also take issue with the fact that the abuse and deaths of children can be used as a political tool to further women's interests rather than that of children.

The deception in the use of statistics to gather public funding by high profile figures can make them appear to be acting in their own self interest rather than with integrity along with only good intentions.
Agree your comments about the children. Where do we start the education process that it is wrong to lash out physically against others?
 
Little Graham: The stats are wrong. Here's proof.
Reframers: So you're condoning violence against women?!
Little Graham: The stats are wrong. Here's proof.
Reframers: Do you believe too many women are being killed by their partners?
Little Graham: The stats are wrong. Here's proof.
Reframers: You misogynist prick!
Little Graham: The stats are wrong. Here's proof.
Reframers: You violence-promoting arsehole!
Welcome to political discourse in Australia. Nevermind facts, the agenda is what counts, and they'll continue to reframe the debate until the smear campaign is complete.
They're like the audience on Q & A.
No it is the deaths that count or aren't you interested?
Why are you and others trying to make it about men/women, numbers being inaccurate\accurate, taxpayers money etc, etc
 
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What does being 'an English woman' have to do with it? By the way, I am not a fan of hers, I think she should include both sexes as an issue.
Are there any other reasons you are not a fan of Rosie Batty that you would like to share here?

I get the impression a number of people(not just males) have mixed feelings about her but are too hesitant to articulate them because of the consequences.
 
Are there any other reasons you are not a fan of Rosie Batty that you would like to share here?

I get the impression a number of people(not just males) have mixed feelings about her but are too hesitant to articulate them because of the consequences.
No sorry, suffice to say, I really am concerned about seeing our PM hanging on the coat-tails of someone that he thinks will help him build a better public profile when for me it is about better understanding what is in the heads of these people and the affect it is having on children and what their role models look like.

There was an article in SMH about a fight at school... What sort of adults will these kids grow up to be?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/footage-s...d-at-walgett-high-school-20150520-gh66us.html
"A 15-year-old girl and 16-year-old girl were arrested and charged with affray and intimidation. In separate incidents, two students threw punches at each other on Monday morning. Later that day eight students - all female, it is understood - were involved in a brawl.
They've both been granted conditional bail to appear before Children's Court on Wednesday June 10, 2015 and inquiries into the matter were continuing, police said".
 

johnhunt

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No it is the deaths that count or aren't you interested?
Why are you and others trying to make it about men/women, numbers being inaccurate\accurate, taxpayers money etc, etc
If the deaths counted/were important they wouldn't peddle blatant lies like they are all domestic violence related. Some of them (a large amount) are being misappropriated and used for sheer political gain.
 
If the deaths counted/were important they wouldn't peddle blatant lies like they are all domestic violence related. Some of them (a large amount) are being misappropriated and used for sheer political gain.

Are you suggesting that those other women, who died at the hands of unknown parties, women or brother/father aren't important?
Is violence in general unimportant?
Violence against women? not important ?

What are you trying to say, exactly?

Oh and :drunk:
 

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Yes. I also believe too many children are abused, there are too many workplace deaths etc. Lying to take over public debate and place dramatic focus on one area or need to the detriment of many others is where the problem sits.

They are lying to give the impression that the problem is growing . The lower number is dramatic enough and speaks for itself.
Do you have any stats to back up the notion that less women are being killed as a result of domestic violence?
 
If the deaths counted/were important they wouldn't peddle blatant lies like they are all domestic violence related. Some of them (a large amount) are being misappropriated and used for sheer political gain.
:drunk::drunk::drunk:
 
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I posted a link to this a few pages back but neither tesseract or anyone else disputing the statistics seemed to pay it any attention. The figures seem pretty damn comprehensive to me.
 

Gus Poyet

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Where do we start the education process that it is wrong to lash out physically against others?

By recognising that women just as much as men play a part in the violent cycles in which kids are drawn into. Cycles which often contribute to that child themselves becoming violent later in life.
 
By recognising that women just as much as men play a part in the violent cycles in which kids are drawn into. Cycles which often contribute to that child themselves becoming violent later in life.
Tell me something I don't already know. Not sure who that was directed to.
Don't you too make it about men versus women.
 

Gus Poyet

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Tell me something I don't already know. Not sure who that was directed to.
Don't you too make it about men versus women.

I'm making it about the idiots who are given the stage to spout their s**t when anything bad happens to a woman.

When a woman is harmed by a man they come up with a dialogue that "it's a men's issue". Of course the guy could have been raised by a violent single mother for all we know yet somehow that isn't ever disclosed. It's simply a mens issue.

Thus it absolves women from playing any part in these processes which could have lead to said psychos violent issues.
 
When a woman is harmed by a man they come up with a dialogue that "it's a men's issue". Of course the guy could have been raised by a violent single mother for all we know yet somehow that isn't ever disclosed. It's simply a mens issue.

Even if that is the case it would only be true for a minority of cases. Using this argument is just a weak attempt to deflect from the main problem by focussing on the outliers.
 

Gus Poyet

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Even if that is the case it would only be true for a minority of cases. Using this argument is just a weak attempt to deflect from the main problem by focussing on the outliers.

Really? How can you say it's a minority?

Once again Erin Pizzey the founder of one of the first women's shelter in the world disagrees with you. She stated over 60% of the women who came into her shelters when she started them were indeed violent themselves.

So with that in mind, what exactly is the main problem?
 
I'm making it about the idiots who are given the stage to spout their s**t when anything bad happens to a woman.

When a woman is harmed by a man they come up with a dialogue that "it's a men's issue". Of course the guy could have been raised by a violent single mother for all we know yet somehow that isn't ever disclosed. It's simply a mens issue.

Thus it absolves women from playing any part in these processes which could have lead to said psychos violent issues.
Thought so.:cry:
 

Gus Poyet

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Logic. Try it some time.

Well you're logic is not working then. Maybe you need to try it yourself.

I just told you someone who knows what they are talking about contradicts your claim.

Is it logical to dismiss her experiences?
 

Gus Poyet

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Thought so.:cry:

Do you think?

It seems anyone who suggests women are part of the larger problem to people like you is turning it into a "men vs women" issue rather than a violent parents contribute to violent people later in life.

How bloody minded.
 
Well you're logic is not working then. Maybe you need to try it yourself.

I just told you someone who knows what they are talking about contradicts your claim.

Is it logical to dismiss her experiences?
Because the rate of domestic violence with male perpetrators and the percentage of single mother households in the country does not match up!
 

Gus Poyet

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Because the rate of domestic violence with male perpetrators and the percentage of single mother households in the country does not match up!

Show me those figures. You must have them to know that. I'll await them.

Also way to go for not comprehending.

When told of the 60% of women who entered a womens shelter were violent no mention was made of them being single mothers. The issue is they are violent. Not their marital status.
 
Show me those figures. You must have them to know that. I'll await them.

Also way to go for not comprehending.

When told of the 60% of women who entered a womens shelter were violent no mention was made of them being single mothers. The issue is they are violent. Not their marital status.
What's to comprehend. You, like numerous other men's rights supporters, deliberately ignore that vast majority of statistical data that contradicts your arguments. You rely on arguments on semantics and focus on the outliers to reinforce your preconceived notions.

Figures for domestic violence by male perpetrators against female victims in Victoria: approx 22,000 in 2009-10.
Number of single parent families in Victoria in 2011: approx 140,000.
Using national figures for single mother families as a base, the number of families with the mother as sole parent would be approx 112.000.

So, of these 22,000 men you would argue that a statistically significant number of them came from the 112,000 single mother families in Victoria, which make up a mere 13% of all families in the state and those single mothers from within said families played a part in their violent tendencies.

These calculations don't even take into account the rise in single parent families over the past few decades either. The actual numbers were probably even smaller when the majority of these perpetrators were growing up.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@...ment&tabname=Summary&prodno=2&issue=2007-2011
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/6224.0.55.001~Jun 2012~Chapter~one Parent Families
http://assets.justice.vic.gov.au/vo...8-97e7043e772e/fvdb_1999_2010_keyfindings.pdf
 
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Because the rate of domestic violence with male perpetrators and the percentage of single mother households in the country does not match up!

So, of these 22,000 men you would argue that a statistically significant number of them came from the 112,000 single mother families in Victoria, which make up a mere 13% of all families in the state and those single mothers from within said families played a part in their violent tendencies.

It's not untrue just because it seems statistically unlikely on the surface. For example, the vast majority of felons in America were raised in single-parent homes (almost always by single mothers). Isn't that statistically unlikely given single-parent homes are a minority? It doesn't make it any less true.
 
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