Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

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IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN

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Can everyone come clean on their huge bias here?

Mine is that I want my male friends to be able to express anything that makes them healthier mentally.

And for men that may be by saying "man up".

While you may see that as saying "you're a weak and powerless man, toughen up" a man may see it as "it's no big deal, you're tough, it'll get better".

I find it insulting that you feel you are in a position to tell males what is and isn't an acceptable way of communicating amongst themelves, but unfortunately, it's not just you, but modern day culture. Women now feel empowered to not only decide for their own gender what is acceptable to them, but now also men.

What makes you think you have the right to be able to decide for men what is and isn't an acceptable way to express themselves? If men were to say "women need to stop whinging about their feelings", you would have a ******* meltdown.
 
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And for men that may be by saying "man up"

While you may see that as saying "you're a weak and powerless man, toughen up" a man may see it as "it's no big deal, you're tough, it'll get better".

I find it insulting that you feel you are in a position to tell males what is and isn't an acceptable way of communicating amongst themelves, but unfortunately, it's not just you, but modern day culture. Women now feel empowered to not only decide for their own gender what is acceptable to them, but now also men.

What makes you think you have the right to be able to decide for men what is and isn't an acceptable way to express themselves? If men were to say "women need to stop whinging about their feelings", you would have a ******* meltdown.

Would I?

Have you ever seen me have a meltdown?
 
What makes you think you have the right to be able to decide for men what is and isn't an acceptable way to express themselves? If men were to say "women need to stop whinging about their feelings", you would have a ******* meltdown.

For the second point, that's an unfair comparison because I'm not saying men shouldn't be expressing themselves. I'm saying men shouldn't create a culture where expressing their feelings is a sign of weakness. That's literally the opposite.

What makes me think I have the right to decide for men what is and isn't acceptable?
Refer my previous point. I'm suggesting that men not create a culture of putting each other down as a joke so that there is a free space in the emotional air to get out anything that needs to be shared.

The alternative is to keep bottling it up, like a man, suffering in silence, like a man, not finding out what services are available to help, like a man, and finally reaching the end of the emotional line and taking his own life, like a man.

It is crazy.
 

IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN

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For the second point, that's an unfair comparison because I'm not saying men shouldn't be expressing themselves. I'm saying men shouldn't create a culture where expressing their feelings is a sign of weakness. That's literally the opposite.

What makes me think I have the right to decide for men what is and isn't acceptable?
Refer my previous point. I'm suggesting that men not create a culture of putting each other down as a joke so that there is a free space in the emotional air to get out anything that needs to be shared.

You're not getting the point. You're arguing that the method men use to express themselves is less valid or acceptable than the method used by women. Why are our methods of communicating less acceptable, simply because you don't understand them, or agree with them?


The alternative is to keep bottling it up, like a man, suffering in silence, like a man, not finding out what services are available to help, like a man, and finally reaching the end of the emotional line and taking his own life, like a man.

It is crazy.

It's as if your view of men is taken straight out of a 90 minute action movie. Just because we don't fall to our knees and pour our heart out doesn't mean we don't communicate our feelings, or don't feel safe communicating our feelings. We quite clearly do express ourselves, but obviously not in a manner you understand.

As I said, what you may view as insulting or humiliating may be (and as a general rule is) seen totally different by men.

Just because it is toxic in female culture to "joke about" about something, doesn't mean it is seen the same way by men. Take humour and attractiveness for example: If women have an arse ugly friend, they will avoid aknowledging it, for fear of making them insecure about it, or whatever other reason. Men on the other handle will blatantly bring it out in the open and take the piss out of him, not because they want to destroy their mate, but because to them, making a joke out of something removes the power and authority that it can have over you. Why is the females way acceptable, but the male way not? Why is our way less valid, simply because you don't understand it?
 
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Hypocrite.

Speaking for myself, I don't demand anything. I do expect those things though.

If you're going to label me a hypocrite, at least back it up with reasoning. Or is that beyond you?

If you don't demand those things, but you expect it, it's basically the same difference. You have a sense of entitlement.
 
I was very happy being single, now Im in a relationship when decision making is shared and we still pursue our individual interests.

You'll meet the right person one day :)
I've been doing that for the last two decades. Now thinking MGTOW is looking a pretty good option.
 
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He was talking about a situation where guys make jokes about being tough and it's all a joke but when a woman does it the joke becomes oppressive manipulation.

My point was that it was already oppressive manipulation by men of men.
I actually think it's done by small strength (internal) men struggling with something to other men in order to keep the playing field level. How dare another man be brave enough to cry, or talk about how he feels. You're all islands remember? That is the culture that is killing young men.

Get your s**t in the open, realise you're all going through it and get through it as a team. That's what men are way better than women at. You will all rally behind each other and jog along together.

Act. Belong. Commit.
The middle one is what men need to focus on, because men commit to their friends already.

I was speaking of a man in a relationship with a woman in post #1786 and romeoh's call for the man to "toughen up". I was not speaking of men in general. Saying that I was speaking of men in general when speaking of romeoh alone is dishonest. You responded to me in post #1796 and made the issue about men only. So you're either mistaken or you're a willful liar. The post that you initially responded to me involved my comment being about women, when I said "I agree that he should leave her. If he chooses to stay though, telling him to toughen up isn't helpful. Such is akin to "man up", "be a man", "suck it up". It's virtually telling men to keep their mouth shut and suffer in silence." So, I said "she", yet you turned the issue into men telling other men not to use shaming language. You changed the frame of the discussion and ran with it.

Your continual failure to acknowledge women's role in the use of shaming language is quite telling. Women use it on men to serve the interests of women by manipulating men. Men usually use it men as a throw away line and a lighthearted jab. When it is used by men on a personal level, the recipient isn't going to unburden his soul to that man. This makes your proposal for men inadequate as a solution. If you really believe this so-called culture is killing men, you have your head well and truly buried in the sand. You're offering a female-like solution to men. Women aren't men!

Men don't have an in-group preference/bias that women do, so there's no 'team men'. There's 'team woman' though, for women have an in-group preference/bias - the sisterhood - which favours fellow women over men, given all things are equal. I've touched on this issue on more than a few occasions.

It's women who need to stop with their shaming language toward men when men don't comply with their wishes or demands. "Be a man" is often used by women to manipulate a desired manly reaction that will get the woman what she wants. She manipulates him by playing to his manly pride and ego. Women need to own their s**t instead of doing as they've done with the DV issue and solely blaming men for something they're heavily involved in. I've already touched on how women want the rights of men, but without the responsibility and obligations of men. Women want to be treated as children in that they want to be seen as not responsible or blamed for problems they cause. Your silence on the issue of women using shaming tactics against men while reframing the issue as men doing such to other men, attests to this.
 
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I can't both be excluded from a group when discussing the use of terms like "man up" (where he said that when guys do it is just a joke but women saying it is manipulation) and then attacked for being excluded from a group.

I didn't make this a man only issue, he did :)

I was speaking of a man in a relationship with a woman in post #1786 and romeoh's call for the man to "toughen up". I was not speaking of men in general. Saying that I was speaking of men in general when speaking of romeoh alone is dishonest. You responded to me in post #1795 and made the issue about men only. So you're either mistaken or you're a willful liar.
 
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Can everyone come clean on their huge bias here?

Mine is that I want my male friends to be able to express anything that makes them healthier mentally.

You lie by omission.

Your failure to recognize female use of shaming language toward men has been noticeable, given you've been prompted to respond to such on numerous occasions. Your bias is that of a typical feminist: blame men and men alone.
 
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Nobody has said men are the sole perpetrators. In a domestic violence situation, most of the time you'll find a man committing the assaults. That's just a fact.

It's not a fact. I've provided the world's largest bibliography of studies in the Violence - who's to blame thread that contradicts your claim.
 
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I think the media sanitising of suicide is actually a result of the attitude that it is a cowards way out/ wasn't tough enough to cope/ selfish act etc etc. The resulting tarnishing of character for the person who took their own life is a huge worry for print media.

The newspaper could print that a person took their own life and the emotional family could sue them for defamation.

Society sucks when it comes to mental health, it's only now swinging around to accepting an open dialogue.

The issue runs deeper than merely helping men to overcome being distraught at the loss of seeing his children and being fleeced of his hard earned for no return. Fixing what's caused his mental anguish would resolve many a man's issues. Simply helping him cope after being burnt by the family court rort doesn't fix what's really ailing him.
 
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I heard a stat that said a third of girls would be sexually abused before they are adults, twenty percent of boys the same and 90% of these abusers are trusted people in their lives, 70% are family members.

How can we start a dialogue about that when it requires society to give up no the stranger danger message and look inward?

The same I think is the story with other forms of domestic violence.

This post is just to show that there are lots of elephants in the room at the moment.

Society can't hold an intellectually honest conversation, because society is so PC and gynocentric that discussing female perpetrators of sexual abuse of children in general is taboo. Discussing such an issue doesn't fit the current PC narrative of men = perpetrator, bad, guilty and women = victim, good and innocent.
 

Kynge of Begrem

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If you're going to label me a hypocrite, at least back it up with reasoning. Or is that beyond you?

If you don't demand those things, but you expect it, it's basically the same difference. You have a sense of entitlement.
I called you a hypocrite too, and, I backed it up.

You are a hypocrite because you bleat about women using shaming language against men, yet, you do the exact same thing.
 
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I was very happy being single, now Im in a relationship when decision making is shared and we still pursue our individual interests.

You'll meet the right person one day :)

What's so very typical of blue pill men, and especially mangina's, is that they get their sense of manhood based on women's approval of them. Your comment "You'll meet the right person one day" shows you're a slave to such gynocentric thinking. MGTOW reject this gynocentric nonsense. MGTOW are human beings and have worth regardless of what women or anyone else thinks of them. The blue pill man isn't a human being so much as he's a human doing - someone who has to do/work for the approval of a woman before she finally has to decide on whether she'll reward his efforts with a man card or not. I pity you and men who believe as you do. It's sad and weak-minded. Do you have no self worth? Are you not a man unless it has been stamped and approved by means of the affections of a woman? Are you not your own man?
 
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