Analysis Finding the root of our problems

[SplintWhisky]

Like most I have been watching the the tigers really intensely since Hardwicks promotion. Since then there is one thing that I have seen that I think is the root of our problems that is filtering through.

We have no fight and no will.

I speak as an overall for the club. I understand there are a few players that buck this trend and I will touch on that later.

When Hardwick took over, in the first two years, our side was finding wins hard to get. When we smelt a win we would attack and and hunt in an attempt to get the win. Even if we were behind, in 2011 at least, I would always remember the Richmond comeback. That will and fight I believe was spawned by the players being the underdog and wanting to improve. Go back and watch the 2010 Sydney game that we won. Look at the players fight to get us over the line. Cousins, Tuck and Newman were all playing like their career depended on it in the last quarter. We had a few players that would will us back into the contest. Tuck was always one that would play like he was never going to play next week-Gone. Cousins was fantastic for our kids and was fantastic in on field leadership-Gone. Newman was a great captain and was always trying to get the side over the line-Too old. One thing that was important here was that Cousins and Tuck were the extractors of the ball and they never gave up. They were in the guts and they would fight till the final siren.

Now to the list we have today. Rance, Jack, Maric, and to some extent Edwards are the ones who have that fight today. Rance will never die wondering but he needs help in the backline to be effective. Maric is a battler and will always give what he has a ruined body and he can't cover the ground as well as he used to (even then it was limited). Edwards is underrated by most (I put my hand up for that) but he is a second touch inside midfielder, one that great in traffic but I never expect him to be on the deck getting the ball out. Finally we have Jack. His passion and his drive is unmatched at the club at the moment. He may let his emotions grab hold of him in a game but he will always fight for the club.

For me I want Jack as our captain. He would go a long way of helping cure this issue. For me he is more vocal, more passionate and more marketable than Cotchin. I can see Jack doing what Selwood does more than I can ever see Cotchin doing the same thing. Cotchin does not have any fight or passion it seems. Also I am still bothered by his "If richmond gets a premiership I may retire" comments of a few years ago. To say that tells me that you are not serious.

I have digressed a bit with Cotchin, he is not the problem but he is still affected by the problem. All the players seem to had playing in a final as the ultimate goal of their career. we have all become comfortable with the position in the club. They are a side that is playing like their jobs have already been done. We need to find someone, Captain/Coach/Board whoever it is I don't really care to come in and shake the players out of this mentality that they have. We need someone to make the players feel pride and passion when they walk out onto the field.

 

[ReaperX]

I created a thread a few weeks ago after the Bulldogs loss, where I said that match payments should be docked if we lose matches.

The thread was closed for being silly and over the top, but I am telling you now, if the players' money was on the line, they would fight tooth and nail at every single contest.

So again RFC, I implore you, find a way to surrender match payments from the 22 players that take the field if they don't win, and if you do this, they will never stop and will win the next 16 on the trot.

Talent is NOT the issue.

The issue is desire, or lack thereof.

 

[SplintWhisky]

I created a thread a few weeks ago after the Bulldogs loss, where I said that match payments should be docked if we lose matches.

The thread was closed for being silly and over the top, but I am telling you now, if the players' money was on the line, they would fight tooth and nail at every single contest.

So again RFC, I implore you, find a way to surrender match payments from the 22 players that take the field if they don't win, and if you do this, they will never stop and will win the next 16 on the trot.

Talent is NOT the issue.

The issue is desire, or lack thereof.

For me I would prefer a team of B to C grade footballers that will give 110% each week. I mean to look at it what is ultimately worse-Someone that has all the talent but no drive or someone that has No talent but all the drive.

 

[partycorolla]

I created a thread a few weeks ago after the Bulldogs loss, where I said that match payments should be docked if we lose matches.

The thread was closed for being silly and over the top, but I am telling you now, if the players' money was on the line, they would fight tooth and nail at every single contest.

So again RFC, I implore you, find a way to surrender match payments from the 22 players that take the field if they don't win, and if you do this, they will never stop and will win the next 16 on the trot.

Talent is NOT the issue.

The issue is desire, or lack thereof.

I like the idea, I really do.... Happy to be league footballers some of them....

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

We just need someone smarter as coach . Someone who can get the best out of his players . Someone that can see what is happening or going to happen during the game and can make the appropriate changes to our advantage and most of all someone that has a fierce will and mongrel to succeed not someone that makes excuses before a ball has even been bounced and makes excuses for the players when they are not performing .

Ball Cuppers like Sanderson , Brad Scott and Guy McKenna need not apply .

 

[partycorolla]

We just need someone smarter as coach . Someone who can get the best out of his players . Someone that can see what is happening or going to happen during the game and can make the appropriate changes to our advantage and most of all someone that has a fierce will and mongrel to succeed not someone that makes excuses before a ball has even been bounced and makes excuses for the players when they are not performing .

Ball Cuppers like Sanderson , Brad Scott and Guy McKenna need not apply .

Don't know about smarter.... how about scarier.... Honestly could have had anyone last night and wouldn't have made a difference. We were soft, plain and simple when it got wet. We wasted chances early and then were soft (physically and mentally) for an entire half....

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Don't know about smarter.... how about scarier.... Honestly could have had anyone last night and wouldn't have made a difference. We were soft, plain and simple when it got wet. We wasted chances early and then were soft (physically and mentally) for an entire half....

A lot said the same about the Bulldogs loss and the Port Loss. It's getting very old and tired

 

[ReaperX]

We just need someone smarter as coach . Someone who can get the best out of his players . Someone that can see what is happening or going to happen during the game and can make the appropriate changes to our advantage and most of all someone that has a fierce will and mongrel to succeed not someone that makes excuses before a ball has even been bounced and makes excuses for the players when they are not performing .

Ball Cuppers like Sanderson , Brad Scott and Guy McKenna need not apply .

Dimma is done, we agree on that.

But again, there is no fear of death in these players should they not pressure and chase.

If you literally said to every player that a missed tackle costs them $100, how many tackles would they miss?

Like I mean LITERALLY you have a person watching the game, and for every missed tackle, they note down that $100 is to be taken from that players pay cheque.

And for every time a player corrals an opponent instead of tackling them and running at them, it's another $80. Per time.

And every time a player doesn't get lower than his opponent when going for a ball, another $50 per time.

You might think it sounds silly, but good god I promise we wouldn't lose many games if this system was ACTUALLY implemented somehow, and then enforced.

These players don't care about the club, but they do care about their wallets. So if we can't get them to play for the pride of the guernsey, we must appeal to their greed, and strip them of what is truly important to them. And that goes beyond just threatening to make changes the following week to the team.

DOCK. MATCH. PAYMENTS. Starting now.

And we will play in a Prelim this year, even with Hardwick.

 

[partycorolla]

A lot said the same about the Bulldogs loss and the Port Loss. It's getting very old and tired

Yeah but it's true.... we simply don't show a will to compete.... or we aren't good enough to do it anymore. We were one of the best in the comp at it and now we either don't have the big bodies or the willpower.... Tuck and Jackson were less skilled than the guys we have... but they were a tonne harder, week in and week out.

 

[partycorolla]

Dimma is done, we agree on that.

But again, there is no fear of death in these players should they not pressure and chase.

If you literally said to every player that a missed tackle costs them $100, how many tackles would they miss?

Like I mean LITERALLY you have a person watching the game, and for every missed tackle, they note down that $100 is to be taken from that players pay cheque.

And for every time a player corrals an opponent instead of tackling them and running at them, it's another $80. Per time.

And every time a player doesn't get lower than his opponent when going for a ball, another $50 per time.

You might think it sounds silly, but good god I promise we wouldn't lose many games if this system was ACTUALLY implemented somehow, and then enforced.

These players don't care about the club, but they do care about their wallets. So if we can't get them to play for the pride of the guernsey, we must appeal to their greed, and strip them of what is truly important to them. And that goes beyond just threatening to make changes the following week to the team.

DOCK. MATCH. PAYMENTS. Starting now.

And we will play in a Prelim this year, even with Hardwick.

Might need to be a sliding scale based on their salary and experience! Poor rookies might not have the strength to stick a tackle on Cloke and then loses half his match payment!

 

[ReaperX]

Might need to be a sliding scale based on their salary and experience! Poor rookies might not have the strength to stick a tackle on Cloke and then loses half his match payment!

Then it's that rookie's responsibility to not come into the team until he is able to tackle, and take down, Travis Cloke.

I want 99% DE, 150 tackles per game, breaking records every single time we step onto the field, to be our goals here.

You don't play for us until you can come in and do the job EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME.

It is about time we started demanding not just excellence, but PERFECTION, from every single player on our list, whether it's Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, or Ivan bloody Soldo.

You wanna be on Richmond's list champ? You have to be ELITE.

This is the type of standard that drives Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney, etc.

Our standards on-field at the moment are absolutely pathetic.

 

[partycorolla]

Then it's that rookie's responsibility to not come into the team until he is able to tackle, and take down, Travis Cloke.

I want 99% DE, 150 tackles per game, breaking records every single time we step onto the field, to be our goals here.

You don't play for us until you can come in and do the job EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME.

It is about time we started demanding not just excellence, but PERFECTION, from every single player on our list, whether it's Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, or Ivan bloody Soldo.

You wanna be on Richmond's list champ? You have to be ELITE.

This is the type of standard that drives Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney, etc.

Our standards on-field at the moment are absolutely pathetic.

I agree but I still think a sliding scale would make more sense.

 

[ReaperX]

Essentially, we need an OVER-correction on this, in order to get us where we need to be, because right now we're not even putting in a Bottom 6 standard effort.

Carlton were trailing by nearly 30 points against St. Kilda today, then won by 40.

That should have been us doing that to the Bulldogs and Demons.

 

[partycorolla]

Essentially, we need an OVER-correction on this, in order to get us where we need to be, because right now we're not even putting in a Bottom 6 standard effort.

Carlton were trailing by nearly 30 points against St. Kilda today, then won by 40.

That should have been us doing that to the Bulldogs and Demons.

Melbourne and the Bulldogs would have beaten the Saints by 60 today....

 

[TigerImposter]

Then it's that rookie's responsibility to not come into the team until he is able to tackle, and take down, Travis Cloke.

I want 99% DE, 150 tackles per game, breaking records every single time we step onto the field, to be our goals here.

You don't play for us until you can come in and do the job EVERY SINGLE DAMN TIME.

It is about time we started demanding not just excellence, but PERFECTION, from every single player on our list, whether it's Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin, or Ivan bloody Soldo.

You wanna be on Richmond's list champ? You have to be ELITE.

This is the type of standard that drives Hawthorn, Fremantle, Sydney, etc.

Our standards on-field at the moment are absolutely pathetic.

i can hardly believe youre the same guy that derailed my improvement thread last year.
have you had a gender change or a heart implant?
sorry for the week joke mate, im trying to find ways of venting my frustration.

 

[ReaperX]

Melbourne and the Bulldogs would have beaten the Saints by 60 today....

Melbourne and the Bulldogs only do ONE THING well, and that's the thing we DON'T do well... manic pressure.

If we applied the same type of pressure they did to us, we'd have won both the matches by 40-60 points and be 4-0 and probably top of the ladder.

Brisbane = Bottom 6 team who doesn't apply pressure = 80 point win.
Melbourne = Bottom 6 team who applies immense pressure = 30 point loss.

Not a big difference between those two teams, but because the RFC are SO INCREDIBLY INEPT at dealing with ANY type of pressure whatsoever, it becomes a 110 point turnaround from one week to the next.

 

[ReaperX]

i can hardly believe youre the same guy that derailed my improvement thread last year.
have you had a gender change or a heart implant?
sorry for the week joke mate, im trying to find ways of venting my frustration.

I stand by everything I said back then too, Hardwick needed to be given a chance to learn, and change this club.

He had the runs on the board up until EF 2013.

In my book his brownie points were shaken by the 3-10 start, then slightly restored by the 9 game winning streak, and then shaken heavily by the Port debarcle. But I was still willing to let him show us that he had changed things, and so when the draw was released, and we had Blues, Dogs, Lions, and Demons, his benchmark was to have us at 4-0 playing decent footy, and at worst 3-1 playing decent footy.

Ironically, the loss I was expecting before the season began, was against the Lions, who we thoroughly demolished for reasons explained above.

The loss to the Bulldogs this year was it for me. There can't be any coming back from it, even if we win the next 18 games and finish 20-2, because I will still have the fundamental understanding that a team as absolutely shithouse as the Western Bulldogs is capable of beating us. And now other minnows are smelling blood.

Wait until we play West Coast or St. Kilda, there's more s**t to hit the fan yet,

 

[partycorolla]

Melbourne and the Bulldogs only do ONE THING well, and that's the thing we DON'T do well... manic pressure.

If we applied the same type of pressure they did to us, we'd have won both the matches by 40-60 points and be 4-0 and probably top of the ladder.

Melbourne = Bottom 6 team who applies immense pressure = 30 point loss.

Not a big difference between those two teams, but because the RFC are SO INCREDIBLY INEPT at dealing with ANY type of pressure whatsoever, it becomes a 110 point turnaround from one week to the next.

Surely effort is the easiest thing to fix? It takes no skill, it just takes a bit of mental application.... surely

 

[TigerImposter]

I stand by everything I said back then too, Hardwick needed to be given a chance to learn, and change this club.

He had the runs on the board up until EF 2013.

In my book his brownie points were shaken by the 3-10 start, then slightly restored by the 9 game winning streak, and then shaken heavily by the Port debarcle. But I was still willing to let him show us that he had changed things, and so when the draw was released, and we had Blues, Dogs, Lions, and Demons, his benchmark was to have us at 4-0 playing decent footy, and at worst 3-1 playing decent footy.

Ironically, the loss I was expecting before the season began, was against the Lions, who we thoroughly demolished for reasons explained above.

The loss to the Bulldogs this year was it for me. There can't be any coming back from it, even if we win the next 18 games and finish 20-2, because I will still have the fundamental understanding that a team as absolutely shithouse as the Western Bulldogs is capable of beating us. And now other minnows are smelling blood.

Wait until we play West Coast or St. Kilda, there's more s**t to hit the fan yet,

This is where you got ahead of yourself

 

[ReaperX]

The 9 game streak was impressive, but the Port loss kept it in perspective for me.

If we were 4-0 now, and had smashed the Bulldogs and Demons, I'd be staunchly defending Hardwick... ooops, except that nobody would be having a go at him, because he'd be DOING HIS ******* JOB!

But he isn't doing his job, because he isn't capable of making a call such as dropping Cotchin to the reserves for missing that set shot.

We need somebody who will be absolutely ruthless and cutthroat.

 

[ReaperX]

Surely effort is the easiest thing to fix? It takes no skill, it just takes a bit of mental application.... surely

It's not even "effort" though.

It's "will" and "determination", and putting your teammates ahead of yourself every single time.

It's handing the big pressure moments with poise.

One player had poise for us yesterday, and his name was Shane Edwards. Every time he went near it, something happened, and even when he fluffed it, he made positive errors, if that makes sense.

I can deal with positive errors, but not piss-weak pathetic, save your own skin efforts by 16 of our 22 yesterday.

 

[sante]

I thought we fought hard and competed well just lacked the polish. Whether that's because we have players who don't have enough skill/can't cope with pressure or the game plan sucks I don't know. But I'd say it's a bit of both.

Dimma said when he came on board that good foot skills were a must in his team! How many on our list are good users of the footy?

 

[ReaperX]

I thought we fought hard and competed well just lacked the polish. Whether that's because we have players who don't have enough skill/can't cope with pressure or the game plan sucks I don't know. But I'd say it's a bit of both.

Dimma said when he came on board that good foot skills were a must in his team! How many on our list are good users of the footy?

Quite a few actually... when there's no pressure being applied.

 

[partycorolla]

It's not even "effort" though.

It's "will" and "determination", and putting your teammates ahead of yourself every single time.

It's handing the big pressure moments with poise.

One player had poise for us yesterday, and his name was Shane Edwards. Every time he went near it, something happened, and even when he fluffed it, he made positive errors, if that makes sense.

I can deal with positive errors, but not piss-weak pathetic, save your own skin efforts by 16 of our 22 yesterday.

That's what I call real effort not half arsed or even 95% effort....

The first 5 mins of the last qtr last night.... Cotch played like a man possessed.... great. Why doesn't Cotch (and everyone) play like men possessed every minute of every game?

Remember the first qtr against Sydney in 2012.... manic pressure. Just about the best I've ever seen from us...

 

[sante]

That's what I call real effort not half arsed or even 95% effort....

The first 5 mins of the last qtr last night.... Cotch played like a man possessed.... great. Why doesn't Cotch (and everyone) play like men possessed every minute of every game?

Remember the first qtr against Sydney in 2012.... manic pressure. Just about the best I've ever seen from us...

It's mindset. We are over coached imo with structures and playing our roles.