First Test for Dan Andrews - Militant union flexing muscle

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RightorKhan

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1.1b is a hell of a lot of money for a bunch of unskilled blue collar bogans that haven't even done anything. Compensation for what? If I was him I'd rip it up or send the bill to Canberra. Technically the previous state government is liable for this mess.

Oh well better than giving 6b to all those Chinese who own those suburbs anyway. Ringwood to hoddle is 40km bumper to bumper regardless fo what road they build.

Almost better not building out of spite even if we had the money, those chinese suburbs already get more infrastructure than any other melbourne region. Hospitals, schools, tram lines to vermont south, pretentious private ashburton line etc, 3 stations in Camberwell, and the best major road grid in all of melbourne.
 

RightorKhan

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The state election was a referendum on the road. Something the previous government didn't respect and hurriedly signed us into that hole of debt anyway.
 

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Footy Smarts

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1.1b is a hell of a lot of money for a bunch of unskilled blue collar bogans that haven't even done anything. Compensation for what? If I was him I'd rip it up or send the bill to Canberra. Technically the previous state government is liable for this mess.

Don't worry the only bogans receiving anything here will be very white collar. Not unskilled either. I'd say convincing a bunch of politicians to screw over the public to give you a $1B+ gift for no work is a pretty impressive skill.
 

Qsaint

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The state election was a referendum on the road. Something the previous government didn't respect and hurriedly signed us into that hole of debt anyway.

This comment just needs to be a little more precise.

Libs rightfully or wrongly signed up for the East West Link.

Election was significantly concerned with building a road the govt signed up for or not building the road, importantly promised at no cost (which turned out to be totally wrong).

Many people voted to not build the road at no cost, if they new they were going to spend the same amount of money either way, many would have reversed their vote, exhibit A myself. Surely a compromised road is better than p@@@ing 2 billion up against the wall. A decision that the libs made the right decision when keeping the ridiculously expensive MYKI
 

Chameleon75

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Don't worry the only bogans receiving anything here will be very white collar. Not unskilled either. I'd say convincing a bunch of politicians to screw over the public to give you a $1B+ gift for no work is a pretty impressive skill.

$1b is just a grab for cash, it would not be unexpected for the consortia to have racked up costs in the $50-100m range though.

John Holland's costs were $14m on the bid and they were knocked out much earlier.
 

Qsaint

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$1b is just a grab for cash, it would not be unexpected for the consortia to have racked up costs in the $50-100m range though.

John Holland's costs were $14m on the bid and they were knocked out much earlier.

There is no way they will get out of this 50 -100 million.

Anyway its not as bad as Labors other complete Balls up 18 Billion for a plant that will never be used.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/desalination-plant-to-remain-in-mothballs-20150204-1364op.html

Imagine how many trains etc we could have if we kept these incompetents outs of office
 
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Chameleon75

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There is no way they will get out of this 50 -100 million.

Anyway its not as bad as Labors other complete Balls up 18 Billion for a plant that will never be used.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/desalination-plant-to-remain-in-mothballs-20150204-1364op.html

Imagine how many trains etc we could have if we kept these incompetents outs of office

I suspect not, they seem to have a guarantee, but thats not my point, was referring to the misconception that no work has been done, but it certainly isn't anywhere near the $1b figure either.
 

ralphmalph

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As if councils haven't wasted other peoples money going to court with a Nimby action
No idea what point you think you're making with this comment.

Is it supposed to be a comment on the merits of the case?

My earlier post related to the odd decision to sign the contract with Supreme Court action on foot. The consequences of that action if successful would mean the end of the contract. Why would anyone sign the contract under those circumstances? Who gives a * if you call it a nimby objection? What's the relevance of the funding?
 

Qsaint

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I suspect not, they seem to have a guarantee, but thats not my point, was referring to the misconception that no work has been done, but it certainly isn't anywhere near the $1b figure either.
The costs include all the contracts they entered into with engineering and other consultants but the biggest expense is the financing this whole thing was going to be built with a consortium of lenders the govt and private ownership wasn't being applied till the road was built
 

Whit3y

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Yup you got it MYKI is a bigger dog than the east west link.

2 billion dollars for no road is the worst decision, well other than lying about it before the election
If the previous Liberal government were respectable politicians and not corrupt economic vandals they wouldn't of signed the contracts. The fact remains Napthine signed contract 5 weeks before an election knowing that the election was a referendum on the road, it is the lowest dirtest act ever put on a state by a serving Premier yet Liberal supporters want to blame Labor. So just give me one single valid reason why the contracts had to be signed when they were and not delayed until after the election, I've been waiting months and yet to here one.
 

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Pessimistic

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This comment just needs to be a little more precise.

Libs rightfully or wrongly signed up for the East West Link.

Election was significantly concerned with building a road the govt signed up for or not building the road, importantly promised at no cost (which turned out to be totally wrong).

Many people voted to not build the road at no cost, if they new they were going to spend the same amount of money either way, many would have reversed their vote, exhibit A myself. Surely a compromised road is better than p@@@ing 2 billion up against the wall. A decision that the libs made the right decision when keeping the ridiculously expensive MYKI

Its not the same money either way, and the consortia wanted all the profits while leaving the risk with the taxpayers.
Compliant politicians helps
 

Pessimistic

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For a start if 1.1B. Is the same as 2B i have a plot of land you can have in fnq at a nice price o_O

The total esitmates were in the 16 billion range, it was going to suck in infrastructure dollars leaving precious little for the rest of the states requirements.

The city loop infrastucture plan will be much better return netting several times the outlay and benefitting all areas of melbourne not just a couple

I put a rider on this to say the second road crossing of the yarra will become an increasingly urgent need. Didnt stop the libs prioritising the eastern part of the link for political reasons though
 

Lester Burnham

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Let me get this straight.

MYKI contracts were signed over 5 years before the Liberals came to power (with another election in between) compared to the E-W link being signed 8 weeks before an election by a government well behind in the polls.

There was no suggestion when the Liberals came to power that the MYKI contracts were invalid while the E-W link is up before the courts.

There was, to our knowledge, no side-contract for MYKI meaning compensation was payable even if the actual contract was found to be void. There was for E-W link.

The total cost of MYKI was $1.5B. The cost of the compensation payout alone for the E-W link is expected to be about that amount.

Yet MYKI is worse than the E-W link??? Only the most partisan hack could think that statement is reasonable.

Let's be honest. MYKI was a perfectly reasonable project delivered incompetently leading to huge waste. There was no drama around the signing of the contracts, no major opposition at the time they were signed and no dodgy compensation clauses. It rightfully led to the removal of a government due to cost blowouts and poor management. But the signing of the E-W link contracts by a government on its death bed mere weeks before an election with compensation clauses of $1B+ irrespective if the contract was valid is an outright fraud on the victorian people. A $1B+ gift to mates in the construction industry stinks of corruption. The new government should legislate to have the contract declared null with no requirement for compensation and call for a royal commission into the episode.

I can handle incompetency. It's something that's almost expected with governments to some degree and the public has the right to kick out governments because of it. But this is deceit pure and simple, legislating to deny an elected government the ability to deliver what the public voted them in to do. It absolutely stinks.


Labor had no mandate to implement MYKI and there was no popular support for it. The Labor government hurriedly and ineptly signed a 10 year contract for it in 2005 which committed the winners of the three next elections to it. The voters in the 2006 Victorian election would have no idea that the cost would blow out from $494 million (which was already ridiculously high compared to similar schemes like $A289 million for London's Oyster card) to $1.5 billion.

What do you mean "There was, to our knowledge, no side-contract for MYKI". Are you speaking on behalf of a group or organisation?
 

Pessimistic

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The genesis of MYKI was during the metcard project, which itself set benchmarks for poor project management.
I remember it being discussed at the time and the barriers hd provision for electronic card readers.

For mine. Myki should have been limited to weekly, monthly and yearly passes which merely opened the barrier if they were current, keep metcard for other journeys.

Note that oyster is quoted but it didnt immediately replace existing tickets as MYKI did
 

Lester Burnham

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The genesis of MYKI was during the metcard project, which itself set benchmarks for poor project management.
I remember it being discussed at the time and the barriers hd provision for electronic card readers.

For mine. Myki should have been limited to weekly, monthly and yearly passes which merely opened the barrier if they were current, keep metcard for other journeys.

Note that oyster is quoted but it didnt immediately replace existing tickets as MYKI did

When you talk about the Metcard "project" it was an established system that worked well. Unlike MYKI, oversees visitors did not need to fork out $6 unrefundable for each family member before they could use it, there were short term tickets and you didn't need to charge it with money 3 days before your intended travel date.

VLine has also been negatively impacted by MYKI implementation. The system can't handle the first class category so those carriages are now inadvertently single class on a first come first serve basis. Then there is the problem of 600 Vline passengers having to queue up to 10 minutes to exit a platform via two MYKI barriers.
 

Pessimistic

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No, the project itself was used in universities as a case study on how projects go wrong. Not to the extent of MYKI but a notable one at the time.

It would be very hard to make a case that projects go well under one flavour of state governments over the other
 

medusala

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I can handle incompetency. It's something that's almost expected with governments to some degree and the public has the right to kick out governments because of it. But this is deceit pure and simple, legislating to deny an elected government the ability to deliver what the public voted them in to do. It absolutely stinks.

Smarts, why was the desal plant built? What did the ALP get and what did the CFMEU get out of it?

Makes WA Inc look like a minor affair.

Get rid of corrupt businesses (i.e. Grollos) and we would have an even better state than we do now.

Pazza why are construction costs in Melbourne so high? I think we all know who the guilty party is.
 
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Pessimistic

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Gotta love the new Opposition.

Frankston Hospital's new ED was opened today. Something both sides would support.

Instead Matthew (the worst panning minister of all time) Guy attacks Andrews for not being there.

So where was the Premier?

In Mildura dealing with a railway issue.

The matthew guy ( or is it the guy matthew ) is a ticking time bomb for the libs.

Once people start to experienc life in the battry cage apartments he signed off on, he'll be as popular as chook poo
 

Pessimistic

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Smarts, why was the desal plant built? What did the ALP get and what did the CFMEU get out of it?

Makes WA Inc look like a minor affair.



Pazza why are construction costs in Melbourne so high? I think we all know who the guilty party is.

Perth stadium = 1 billion dollars before its even blown out, what were you saying again ?
 
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