Opinion Fixing our KPF problem

[bato]

At the moment we have built a good young list with some good young defenders and a strong midfield.

However, our biggest problem is our forward line - we are missing A-grade key position forwards and therefore cannot complete our spine.

History has shown that you need at least one strong key position forward to consistently challenge for the top 4 and win the premiership.

All the current best tall forwards in the competition were taken in the first round of the Draft (unless by father-son acquisition or scholarships).

- Nick Riewoldt (former pick 1)
- Matthew Pavlich (former pick 4)
- Lance Franklin (former pick 5)
- Jarryd Roughead (former pick 2)
- Jay Schulz (former pick 12)
- Jack Riewoldt (former pick 13)
- Josh Kennedy (former pick 4)
- Tom Hawkins (father-son)
- Travis Cloke (father-son)
- Taylor Walker (NSW scholarship upgrade)
- Jeremy Cameron (GWS pre-draft pick)

So the question is: Does anyone have any ideas about any future draft prospects/trades that could help us in this regard?

Any alternative views on this issue?

 

[Milux]

I got some confidence in young Close. Be it hope or wishful thinking. I think this kid can be a 40-50 goal a year forward. Time will tell.

Only other real option is to trade for one of Cameron or Patton but thats highly unlikely.

Id settle for Hawkins though.

 

[Matt_BL]

It's probably a difficult one to answer, as of right now, yes we do have a problem but by Round 22 of the 2015 season we may not. Clearly we will pick a target to go for, I think we might be able to get better value for a player like Cam McCarthy from GWS then have another Beams type situation, we did give up 5+25+Crisp, providing the player isn't a free agent.

The list above probably isn't a realistic target all those players would be very loyal to their club, and we don't have the home state or family member card to play. I'd be looking at the Gold Coast and GWS young talent to try and strike a deal there. Gold Coast now getting Wright makes their stocks pretty stacked. Tom Lynch I think would command the number 1 pick but Sam Day might be gettable provided he'd be keen.

 

[Simba Moyo]

I have faith in Close and Freeman. We also have the salary cap to really chase a 'big profile' forward, but the ones currently available like Hawkins either won't come to Brisbane or won't benefit as much as blooding the kids will.

Good thread nonetheless

 

[bato]

The list above probably isn't a realistic target all those players would be very loyal to their club, and we don't have the home state or family member card to play. I'd be looking at the Gold Coast and GWS young talent to try and strike a deal there. Gold Coast now getting Wright makes their stocks pretty stacked. Tom Lynch I think would command the number 1 pick but Sam Day might be gettable provided he'd be keen.

That list wasn't meant to come out as a potential list of targets, but more to further the point about the best key forwards almost always being picked in the first round of the draft.

Personally, I would like to see us trade for Darling, Cameron, or a young GC or GWS gun. Barring that, we could target McCartin after his current contract expires.

Also worthy of noting that we should also look at drafting one of our own in the first round of a draft. Word is that the depth of next year's talent pool in terms of KPF talent is far from strong.

 

[bato]

I have faith in Close and Freeman. We also have the salary cap to really chase a 'big profile' forward, but the ones currently available like Hawkins either won't come to Brisbane or won't benefit as much as blooding the kids will.

Good thread nonetheless

It's not a matter of faith in our existing talent, but more about improving our list. Should be no denying that a genuine A-grade key forward would improve our list - just like we went after A-grade midfield talent this year to improve our midfield.

Also worthy to note that most of our current forwards all fit into the athletic/mobile forward model besides (perhaps) Michael Close. I think it is essential for us to bolster our "power forward" stocks.

 

[Simba Moyo]

It's not a matter of faith in our existing talent, but more about improving our list. Should be no denying that a genuine A-grade key forward would improve our list - just like we went after A-grade midfield talent this year to improve our midfield.

Also worthy to note that most of our current forwards all fit into the athletic/mobile forward mode besides (perhaps) Michael Close. I think it is essential for us to bolster our "power forward" stocks.

Yeah that's true, but we're coming from a state of trying to replacing Browny so it was always going to be difficult. With the state of our development and available 'power forwards' there isn't many other options than hope that someone we have will a Freeman type come along

 

[Big Lion]

Close or Freeman could be our answer, give them time. Big lads take a while to develop.

 

[jackess]

Sauce still has a couple of seasons left.

Might be hard to trade next year if we can get Keays at a reasonable price.

 

[Big Lion]

Sauce still has a couple of seasons left.

Might be hard to trade next year if we can get Keays at a reasonable price.

Don't make me endure another year with Merrett forward, the only person that hates him more in that spot is probably Merrett himself.

 

[bato]

Yeah that's true, but we're coming from a state of trying to replacing Browny so it was always going to be difficult. With the state of our development and available 'power forwards' there isn't many other options than hope that someone we have will a Freeman type come along

Wouldn't put Freeman in the power forward category, nor do I visualise him becoming one in the near future. Freeman is the one more likely to take an eye-catching speckie than a courageous mark by crashing a pack. We need someone with intimidation. Someone that will make the opposition defender sweat, just like Browny did even very early on in his career. I reckon that's the piece of the puzzle we're missing. We need a type like that very soon, purely because of the age profile of our list. Some of our better players will be on the decline by the time we find someone of that mould or even build on what we've already got (Freeman & Close).

That's why we must chase a Hawkins-type in the next trade period as well as maintaining a healthy list for the future by drafting well - so that there is a new talented key position forward for our next crop of midfielders.

Close or Freeman could be our answer, give them time. Big lads take a while to develop.

Could be, but should we rest our laurels on the two young players? Seems unwise in my opinion.

Sauce still has a couple of seasons left.

Might be hard to trade next year if we can get Keays at a reasonable price.

We've tried Merrett in that KPF position before. He very outwardly does not like it, and from his results, nor is he good at it. Edit: Ok, you weren't being serious. Phew.

 

[jackess]

Don't make me endure another year with Merrett forward, the only person that hates him more in that spot is probably Merrett himself.

Who else in the AFL has kicked 5 goals in a quarter?

Note: I'm only stirring.

 

[carnthemlions]

It's a tough one. I'm optimistic about the prospects of Close and Freeman, but that's only in regard to them making it as AFL standard players.
McStay might turn out to be a good forward, but he'd have to play a full game there first.
If one of those three turns out to be a genuine no.1 KPF, that's great. But I wouldn't put any money on it.
Acquiring a top forward via trade or FA is also difficult. Unless we can convince Hawkins/Cameron/Lynch/Dixon/?? to come here, we have no choice but to bet on our current stocks +maybe Hammelmann. It will be interesting to see what the consequences of the Boyd contract are- will it make KPFs prohibitively expensive, or will it pry loose a few no.2 options after clubs overpay to keep others?
It won't be easy, and I struggle to see the problem being solved quickly. But I thought Beams was no chance of coming here either, so I'll just stay pessimistic

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

A key forward doesn't have to be 195+ cm or particularly huge. Of the one's listed above by bato, Pav and Walker are 192cm, Schulz and Nick Riewoldt are 193, Cameron is 194 but very skinny. If Freeman and Close continue to develop they can definitely be the answer in my opinion, although an experienced big body alongside will help. I think that's where Staker and Mcguane fit in if fit.

 

[bato]

A key forward doesn't have to be 195+ cm or particularly huge. Of the one's listed above by bato, Pav and Walker are 192cm, Schulz and Nick Riewoldt are 193, Cameron is 194 but very skinny. If Freeman and Close continue to develop they can definitely be the answer in my opinion, although an experienced big body alongside will help. I think that's where Staker and Mcguane fit in if fit.

My point was purely to do with their playing styles and not their weight/build. Going back with the flight of the ball and crashing packs, taking courageous marks etc.

We currently do not have a player that matches that particular style. As stated before, Freeman and Close fit in the athletic/mobile forward category. Would require a drastic change in their playing style for them to be 'the next Browny' or 'the next Riewoldt'.

 

[captainrich]

gee how many times will we have this argument, which ends up going in circles mostly.

some say close and freeman wont be dominant forwards, others say they will and need time.

some say we dont need dominant forwards with the service they receive ie geelong and mooney

in my opinion we wont be able to recruit a good forward, we will just need to develop the two boys we have, along with harris to create a couple of tall targets in the forward 50 to make a contest so our burgeoning list of tall forward flankers, ie clayton dawson mayes, paperone, bewick, quick smalls, zorko green mcgrath taylor, and goalscoring mids, rockliff, rich, beams, christensen, hanley. get space and take advantage of it by kicking a winning score

 

[SizeMatters]

I really liked Close in his first few games thought he cracked in hard considering the ball hardly went inside the forward 50. As the season wore on for some reason I became frustrated with him. Our team started to win a few games and the ball was in our forward half a lot more often but Close couldn't get near it. He is the number one runner at the club but he hardly moved around and gave half hearted leads. Was he tired? Maybe but the selection panel didn't think so or else they would have rested him. Not sure about Close now could go either a dud or a 30-40 goal a game forward.

Freeman I havnt really seen as much but the major difference between him and Close, excluding fitness, is that he leads more directly and harder. dont think he needs to be a top runner but more a power forward. Get him on the protein and gym diet. Limit his running to minimum and get him to watch old clips of Lynch with his leading patterns and body positioning.

 

[Skoob]

My point was purely to do with their playing styles and not their weight/build. Going back with the flight of the ball and crashing packs, taking courageous marks etc.

We currently do not have a player that matches that particular style. As stated before, Freeman and Close fit in the athletic/mobile forward category. Would require a drastic change in their playing style for them to be 'the next Browny' or 'the next Riewoldt'.

I can see both doing that. In fact I've seen Close do exactly that. He already has that touch of arrogance/confidence, just needs to settle in there more and own that space.

I really liked Close in his first few games thought he cracked in hard considering the ball hardly went inside the forward 50. As the season wore on for some reason I became frustrated with him. Our team started to win a few games and the ball was in our forward half a lot more often but Close couldn't get near it. He is the number one runner at the club but he hardly moved around and gave half hearted leads. Was he tired? Maybe but the selection panel didn't think so or else they would have rested him. Not sure about Close now could go either a dud or a 30-40 goal a game forward.

Freeman I havnt really seen as much but the major difference between him and Close, excluding fitness, is that he leads more directly and harder. dont think he needs to be a top runner but more a power forward. Get him on the protein and gym diet. Limit his running to minimum and get him to watch old clips of Lynch with his leading patterns and body positioning.

He was tired, because he was sharing ruck duties a fair bit. His leads were pretty good, I thought, but very often ignored or spotted too late. As his team mates learn to recognise him more as a target and get confident in using him, he'll see more action.
Freeman was less natural and made himself less available, but I suspect this was his instruction, to stay close to goal and wait for the ball to either mark or bring to ground.
Neither have really had a fair crack yet.

 

[POBT]

Last season, Freeman couldn't run out of sight on a dark night. I think he needs to keep working on his endurance.

 

[charles202]

Geez SM I had a completely different take from watching Close last year, seemed to run himself into the ground. MC seemed to do a lot of that team running dragging his man forward and leaving a hole in the 50 behind, not to mention the number of times he was clear on the lead and was ignored....drove me nuts.

Do think he needs to improve his running patterns and most importantly the timing of his runs so is more in sync with the ball carrier.

Not to mention I hope that he takes 10,000 set shots over summer so he doesn't burn his chances

 

[The Zork]

What we are lacking at the moment, in my opinion, is that pure contested marking machine who can clunk one when we rush a kick deep forward or the bail out kick when nothing's on short.
It's fine to be able to crash a pack for the crumbers but a one grabber ie a Jake Carlisle forces more defenders to contest the marking contest resulting in more opportunities for said crumbers. I don't see Close as the answer for this deep option.. Freeman, maybe. Resting rucks, hopefully.
I think with our take the game on game style last year and with the recurits/development a lot of our goals are going to be from quick ball movement and smart little kicks finding smaller forwards in holes of the defence Bewick Beams Christensen

 

[John]

Well that's Close's career over.

 

[The Zork]

Close still has a role playing higher leading out. He'll be taking 8-10 marks a game in a few years around that 45-70m mark once he develops smart leading patterns and gut running like a Riewoldt.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Last season, Freeman couldn't run out of sight on a dark night. I think he needs to keep working on his endurance.

Good thing we play under lights a lot then.

 

[Haso]

Well that's Close's career over.

Well he's just not big enough, John. We all know Size Matters. Sorry Closey, pack your bags son.