Roast Flying the flag

[Trewth]

Every contact sport has physical aggression and intimidation as part of its keys to success. When applied fairly it can have the opposition second guessing and hesitating as a result of a healthy dose of fear. It also adds to the confidence and bravado of the aggressor which can lead to a massive advantage over the opposition.
The most physically intimidating teams are the ones that play as a unit. If the opposition tries to impose themselves physically they have to break the entire group and not a few individuals. These teams let their opposition know that to win they're gonna have to put their bodies on the line to win the hard ball, and if they try the thug route of bullying and cheap shots then the team mates are gonna stand up and say it's not on.
Not standing up for your teammates breaks down the unit and gives the opposition the psychological advantage, which quickly becomes a physical advantage.
It seems kind of comical that the Michael Voss era Brisbane was one of those teams. So was the Josh Carr era Port. Yet both are in the coaches box overlooking a bunch of pussies who might as well be playing mixed netball at the moment.

 

[tribey]

The last sign of aggressive intent I seen from anyone at the club was Butch sitting a few Norwood spuds on their arse in the SANFL ANZAC game.
John Butcher.
Think about that.

Butch is a 197cm country boy.

It warmed me that those talentless Norwood half-pints equated Butch's current lack of confidence in his football ability with an inability to handle himself when happened upon.

 

[*PAF]

I thought Voss would have brought that hardness, but so far have seen no evidence of it

This. 100 likes.

 

[chiwigi]

'Twas like 2011/12 rewrought.

Visions of Danyle Pearce being set/sat upon unaided.

That was the worst moment of those days.

 

[FPPF]

The lack of aggression probably goes hand in hand with the lack of weights training over the preseason.
Maybe we need some of this...

The "size" of our players has bothered me for years.
You look at our opponents and a great many of them are huge and look like they've hit the weights hard.
We look like well toned blokes who've put a bit of muscle mass on.

A state of the art fitness program is great. But how about we bulk the * up next preseason and start throwing some weight around the grounds?

 

[chiwigi]

We recruit too many nice blokes from school and then put them thru media training and political correctness class.

Need to recruit a few tradies or meat workers from the abattoirs. I wished we would recruit a kid or two who left school at the end of year 10 or 11 took up a trade involving a bit of physical grunt work, is a footyhead but missed out on the draft at 18 or 19 because of dopey industry perceptions and is hungry as all hell to become a professional footballer.

We need a few mongrels with a rough edge that can be smoothed up when is 28 or 29.

What like Gray?
There aren't many decent footballer who leave before the end of Year 11 these days.

 

[Dalfino]

A bit of blame goes to Ken and the selection panel as we had players like Ah Chee, Young, Moore, Stewart and even Neade (who at least shows desire) at our disposal and they pick Sam Gray. I've got nothing against Sammy but he's too small for AFL, turn it up Ken.

 

[simba_]

Are our minds too full of "the gameplan", is that a part of the problem? I feel like (good) teams execute their plan, or know they are in the process of successfully executing it, and that's when they get in-your-face because the confidence in their ability to do it on the night is there. We haven't been that kind of team at all under Hinkley, we didn't care in the first couple years because we were too good for teams, we had them thinking and worrying all game. Now that we are "the hunted" it seems like we're being overwhelmed both in the coaching battle and the on-field battle.

I don't think Hinkley will ever put too much weight on getting physical and he will always prefer us to "beat them on the scoreboard". Our skills have to be far too good to worry about intimidating the opposition through acts of aggression, we should be scaring them with more goals and less behinds. I just want to see more of a ruthless mentality up front, like Macca has said on the radio, we're trying to be like Arsenal looking for that perfect goal instead of backing ourselves in.

I sort of feel like we haven't been taking it one week at a time, one quarter at a time. They aren't in the moment, every contest. They're sort of expecting it to come together, probably based on how good we've been, but they're not making it happen!!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What like Gray?
There aren't many decent footballer who leave before the end of Year 11 these days.

Gray did year 12 and had to wait a year to qualify for the draft. He decided to work rather than go to Uni. But yeah find a few like Gray who have worked. There are plenty of 19-21 year olds playing state league footy are good enough to play AFL and have to pick up a trade. Ok they might not be super stars but if they are fringe players and provide some toughness both in a game and around the club. Re Robbie and doing year 12 - its the VCE in Victoria.

2014 Herald Sun story link
He went to Doncaster Secondary and did his VCE at Box Hill Senior Secondary College. Talked of by some as a “lovable rogue” in an area known for its polished private schoolboy types, Gray admits the classroom wasn’t his go.

“I never really had any idea about what I was going to do so I thought I’d look for some work,” Gray said.
2014 Herald Sun story link

 

[Sewer de Lance]

Looks like the flag was well and truly packed away when the final siren blew against the Hawks in last years Prelim. The opposition might as well piss on our banner and take a dump in the Wanganeen Stand the way we're going ATM. FFS, if this playing group are unwilling to stand up for one another, then find a group of players who will.

 

[Portwon]

Perhaps we channel the 80's and get Dermott Brereton to come in and have a half time chat like at the infamous "line in the sand game" Hawthorn v Essendon in 2004 ?.

Just joking-Don't think that's us as a club though to be honest (Although would make for great entertainment and the forums would go insane).

Perhaps we do need a watershed moment of some description though to take that next step? Perhaps we need to find a way to get back to that us against them that Port Adelaide has thrived on for years ?.

Agree though we don't currently have that hardness (not thugishness) that we need. The I am not going to take your crap towards me, my team mates, my jumper, my supporters. The sit you on your lemonade and sars and make you think twice attitude if you poke the bear.

Controlled aggression for want of a better term I suppose (with that slight thought that occasionally they might snap).

I want a team that can look each other in the eye and say "ready to go war for me".

 

[Portmanteau]

The fun thing about these threads is when someone like Hammer/Trengrove does retaliate and either get reported or give away a 50m penalty, everyone is up in arms about lack of discipline.

It was so obvious last night that they have a directive from the coaches to not retaliate. Perhaps other coaches have worked this out so they take advantage of it.

#bringbackthebiff

There are ways to retaliate without giving up 50. Get the knees into someone's back during a marking contest, massive gang tackle with afters at the next opportunity etc. It's not an either/or scenario.

 

[Chrizzt]

I've looked at the weights and heights of various teams in the comp. To negate the fact that some clubs have taller players (which would skew the weight) I've given the average weight per cm of these clubs (sorted descending):

I've only included clubs I feel are relevant (read: couldn't be bothered doing them all). It does show that we are a bit lighter than a lot of other 'relevant' clubs. Sydney have been held as a big bodied, contested side for some time and they provide good comparison considering they have a very similar average height. Even with negligible height difference they are on average 1.2(ish) kg heavier per player. Their average age is older than ours by a bit, and that will naturally bring a bit of size. Interesting that Richmond are actually slightly shorter on average, have a similar age profile (slightly older) but on average are also about 1.5 kg heavier per player.

REH you say that you want some uneducated tradie type that probably isn't a superstar to throw his weight around, well we had that in Matt Thomas and he was heavily criticised for not being up to AFL standard, so I'm not sure that is the correct path.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I went down to Robe to watch Port play the Bays in the 1988 Escort Cup. Jack Cahill had just come back and we had watched 5 years of Bay thugs roughing us up.

Salisbury pulled a bit of his typical arse hattery and nothing happened. At half time Jack absolutely ripped the players a new one for letting that go. He told them Port Adelaide did not do nothing about that. And he made the point it wasn't about cheap shots or sniping but hurting them whenever you went in for the ball, making them fear every tackle every contest.

They got the message fast from David Brown to David Hynes and we again became the most feared successful team in the comp.

We've given up a lot on this AFL journey but if we've given up the essence of Port Adelaide then what the Hell are we?

 

[edgie]

What like Gray?
There aren't many decent footballer who leave before the end of Year 11 these days.

Taylor Walker maybe the last one?

 

[edgie]

St Kilda coming to Riewoldts aid at half time of the bulldogs game is a moment some people think they banded together as a group and decided they had enough of the s**t. They came out and had one of the biggest comebacks of all time. I'm not sure I believe it is a watershed moment, but in isolation, they wouldn't have gotten close to winning that if they shrugged and looked the other way. That's a recent example of a team coming together for one another and it paying dividends. There is still a place in AFL for the biff, for the all in brawl.

We absolutely much rediscover this. Our physicality was a big part of winning the 2004 GF, we upset Brisbane by taking it to them, but standing over them and not taking a backwards step. Carr was getting knocked around by Brown, Wangas had Aker and one of the Scotts by the throat, and Wakes was dodging haymakers. We flew the flag and won rhe flag and made history.

Right now, we look like Sydney from last years final, willingly allowing ourselves to be pushed around in some naive belief that letting our football do the talking will prevail.

 

[misternoitall]

I've toyed with whether this was worth it's own thread or not, but I feel that it is.

What the hell is up with our total lack of any sort of aggression at the moment? It's been obvious for a little while but the Richmond game was as bad as any time during the dark years.

Richmond players would come up and get into our guys physically, and there might have been some meek resistance from the player targeted, but absolutely nothing from any of his teammates. Nothing.

Is Josh Carr not an assistant at this club?

I nearly spewed up when we had Trengove hurt on the ground starting to get up, Grimes went and shoved him over and faced absolutely no remonstration at all from any Port player. What a ******* disgrace! Dean Brogan would have crushed his skull like The Giant and Oberyn Martell, but there wasn't so much as a polite word from any of Jacko's teammates.

It's not only about helping out your mates, it's about the physical battle. We got physically dominated by Richmond and that set the tone for the entire game
I hope I never see us that passive again. It was sickening.

I know this won't be a popular opinion, perhaps I need to see the incident again, but I thought Jacko was soft and stayed down way too long. For me this is the bigger issue than none of our guys 'not flying the flag' which actually amounts to nothing in today's football anyway.

I am all for tackling to hurt the opposition, jumper punches when mean nothing, keep your feet and be strong over the ball.

 

[tribey]

I went down to Robe to watch Port play the Bays in the 1988 Escort Cup. Jack Cahill had just come back and we had watched 5 years of Bay thugs roughing us up.

Salisbury pulled a bit of his typical arse hattery and nothing happened. At half time Jack absolutely ripped the players a new one for letting that go. He told them Port Adelaide did not do nothing about that. And he made the point it wasn't about cheap shots or sniping but hurting them whenever you went in for the ball, making them fear every tackle every contest.

They got the message fast from David Brown to David Hynes and we again became the most feared successful team in the comp.

We've given up a lot on this AFL journey but if we've given up the essence of Port Adelaide then what the Hell are we?

Remember when we had a parade of flogs coming in here and saying s**t like "I didn't like Port under Williams because of guys like Cornes, Tredrea, Pickett, Carr and Hardwick but I don't mind you under Hinkley".

That alone should ring alarm bells.

You don't win enemies with salad.

 

[ozph1870]

being humble is for losers, * being humble, smack them in the face, kick them in the teeth, smash them on the scorebord, call them campaigners and when they are down step on their necks.....

we pick light weight runners, always have, we play soft nice boy footy, always have, no mongrels, no guts, brushed aside, choke in the big moments, always have.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I've looked at the weights and heights of various teams in the comp. To negate the fact that some clubs have taller players (which would skew the weight) I've given the average weight per cm of these clubs (sorted descending):

I've only included clubs I feel are relevant (read: couldn't be bothered doing them all). It does show that we are a bit lighter than a lot of other 'relevant' clubs. Sydney have been held as a big bodied, contested side for some time and they provide good comparison considering they have a very similar average height. Even with negligible height difference they are on average 1.2(ish) kg heavier per player. Their average age is older than ours by a bit, and that will naturally bring a bit of size. Interesting that Richmond are actually slightly shorter on average, have a similar age profile (slightly older) but on average are also about 1.5 kg heavier per player.

Averages are meaningless. Its individual match ups. As I wrote in the Sydney review thread

It's more the
Hombsch 89 v Franklin 102
Trengove 94 v Tippett 105
Westhoff 94 v Grundy 101
Gray 84 v Kennedy 96
Neade 67 v Rampe 88 or Smith 82
when Ryder rucks
Ryder 92 v Pyke 104


big mismatches is what I think about, not a statistical average which is a bit meaningless. It's like saying the average rainfall is 500mm a year but you only get 1 year of 500mm, 2 of 1,200mm and the rest of 300mm. The average doesnt mean much to the actual majority of years.

REH you say that you want some uneducated tradie type that probably isn't a superstar to throw his weight around, well we had that in Matt Thomas and he was heavily criticised for not being up to AFL standard, so I'm not sure that is the correct path.

We played Thomas in the middle when we were the absolute pits and he wasnt good enough to spend most of the game in there. Imagine Thomas and Wines busting open stoppages for Boak, Gray, Wingard, Wines, Polec, etc. The other thing that suited Thomas under Hinkley's game plan was belting the ball long into open space for the slingshot. He wasnt skillful enough to play possession footy. One thing about Thomas he had physical presence, didnt back down and flew the flag when needed.

 

[Power Pete]

 

[tribey]

View attachment 137797

What the ****ing ****, Pete?

Honestly.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

being humble is for losers, **** being humble, smack them in the face, kick them in the teeth, smash them on the scorebord, call them campaigners and when they are down step on their necks.....

we pick light weight runners, always have, we play soft nice boy footy, always have, no mongrels, no guts, brushed aside, choke in the big moments, always have.

If you replaces the 3 always have with, too often, then I agree with your post.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

Yup ....thats the incident where my remote got flung....

Weak as piss....

Even when we were s*** as you said brogan would make a stand....

Who is our brogan in the team?

Hartlett should be the man but he is playing my little pony with himself on the field.....


trengove is usually the man that helps out and flys the flag but he was the victim.

 

[BornPort]

View attachment 137797

What's Obama got to do with Port?