Football club finances / FFP

[moomba]

They knew the rules, why should they be exempt from being penalised? I don't agree with FFP, but they brought that fine on themselves.

Maybe there are more suitable penalties the league could think of for breaches of a rule supposedly designed to protect clubs drom financial ruin.

It's like being caught for speeding and as a punishment being made to buy a more powerful engine for your car.

£50m or relegation ruins QPR. They won't be able to honour contracts without losing more money. There is every chance it will force the owner to walk away, it basically sends them to the wall.

 

[Dirty Bird]

If QPR got a 50m fine, how far would they fall before they could recover?
Worse than Portsmouth?

 

[Redalert]

I agree that 50m may be harsh, but they need to be penalised in some way from their promotion season in 13/14. Every other club either passed FFP or were hit with sanctions, only QPR dodged them because they earned promotion.

In terms of the penalty its hard to see what they can do without hurting the club financially, but then its not as if the club wasn't aware that the penalties were coming into play to begin with.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Surely point deductions are a more effective deterrent for all clubs planning to breach FFP. Even PSG don't want to start the season with a 5 point deficit.

 

[Latro]

Surely point deductions are a more effective deterrent for all clubs planning to breach FFP. Even PSG don't want to start the season with a 5 point deficit.

You dont want to use common sense when discussing FFP.

 

[moomba]

If the intention is to protect clubs as people repeatedly say maybe there doesnt have to be a penalty.

Put the club under special administration where business plans have to be approved by the league and major spending needs to be rubber stamped.

Work with the club to make it self sufficient

But FFP has never been about protecting clubs.

 

[moomba]

I'd also be looking if the league FFP followed the UEFA one where the rules were changed mid stream. If they were I'd excuse QPR totally.

 

[moomba]

Champions League revenue could all be wrapped up for the English clubs tonight. If City go out:

MCFC - €39.0m (€35.4m last season less €16m withheld by UEFA)
Liverpool - €28.5m (€0)
Chelsea - €33.8m (€43.3m)
Arsenal - €29.7m (€27.2m)
-------------------------------
Man United - €0 (€44.7m)

The further City progress, the less the other three will get. But only looking at a loss of about a million or so each if we made it all the way through to the final. If we did that and won we would get about €62.1m this season.

[edit]Liverpool did get another £200k for competing in the Europa League R32.

 

[Zidane98]

Go Barca!!

 

[Magma]

that's going straight into the messi fund.

 

[moomba]

Fair play for everyone.

Bayern Munich chief executive Karl-Heinz Rummenigge says European clubs should ‘help certain teams such as Inter and Milan’.

The former striker, who played for the Nerazzurri, is also head of the European Club Association, and believes that Financial Fair Play is having a negative effect on some clubs.

“It’s a pity not just for the clubs [Milan and Inter] but also for Italian and European football,” Rummenigge lamented in an interview with Gazzetta dello Sport.

“Teams like Milan and Inter are big names which are used to the competition [the Champions League].

“However, complaining does not help. I saw [Inter director] Marco Fassone yesterday, and I immediately thought: ‘five years ago Inter won the Champions League’.

“Football can be strange sometimes, but in the last five years something has gone wrong.

“We need to have a clear plan, with all financial options available, yet without going against Financial Fair Play.

“We must remember that Inter are under investigation for not respecting those rules. Also, we, as the Club Association, must think about how we can help certain teams like Inter and Milan with Financial Fair Play, because it damages them.

“If you have a hole, you can’t plug it without any fresh money. I’ve read that Milan could be sold, but the new owner couldn’t put in too much money without going against UEFA limitations.

“So, it’s up to us as big names to find a solution which won’t penalise them any more.

“There are clear, rigid laws but we must think about not hurting clubs too.

“Almost all clubs from Eastern Europe suffer because they don’t have a lot of revenue from television, sponsors and merchandising.

“So we need to look at how we can lend a hand to those clubs, but also some big clubs in Western Europe who now find themselves in trouble.”

http://www.football-italia.net/64685/‘europe-help-milan-clubs’

 

[Magma]

oh how my heart bleeds for them.

 

[Shoei]

Surely point deductions are a more effective deterrent for all clubs planning to breach FFP. Even PSG don't want to start the season with a 5 point deficit.

It would need to be way more than 5 points. Most clubs wouldn't care as long as they make the champions league money.

More like 10-20points imo depending on the breach.

10 points off Arsenal would put us 7th and a game behind 6th. Would almost be impossible to make the top 4.

 

[moomba]

We would have gone to court if we got a points deduction.

TBH I wish we did over the fine.

 

[Zidane98]

We would have gone to court if we got a points deduction.

TBH I wish we did over the fine.

Why fight it? You clearly broke the rules.

 

[moomba]

Why fight it? You clearly broke the rules.

The rules were changed after our 11/12 accounts were released.

Under the UEFA guidelines issued from the start we were able to exempt around £80m worth of contracts signed before July 2010 from our 11/12 FFP accounts.

A month or two after we released our accounts UEFA changed the guidelines, and we no longer qualified for that exemption.

Even some of the sample clubs used in the first UEFA toolkit as examples of how you could qualify for the exemption, failed under the second toolkit. That was the difference between us passing and failing.

Effectively changing the speed limit from 60 to 40, and fining you for driving at 50 the week before the changes were made.

 

[Zidane98]

I don't remember it that way. I thought that the reason you didn't get the exemptions was because you weren't showing enough improvement in the loss making area. I'll have to research it thoroughly but that's what I recall off the top of my head. It was only you and PSG that were found guilty of excessive cheating. So I doubt it was just the rules and/or interpretations that saw you caught out on such a large scale.

 

[moomba]

We easily met the criteria for improving trend in losses.

There was 8 or 9 clubs sanctioned when we were and another 7 or 8 (including Liverpool) that failed but werent sanctioned because they werent in Europe.

In most cases though pre July 2010 spending is much less than ours was.

 

[Magma]

they changed the wording for some of the deductions, that definitely happened.

 

[Zidane98]

So how come more clubs weren't caught out? The only 2 clubs to be punished severely for cheating were PSG & City and both were known to be spending unsustainable amounts on themselves.

 

[Magma]

unsustainable but zero debt. not bad

 

[moomba]

So how come more clubs weren't caught out? The only 2 clubs to be punished severely for cheating were PSG & City and both were known to be spending unsustainable amounts on themselves.

A change in rules doesnt necessarily have affect the majority. I don't even know if thats where PSG fell down. Just that it was the difference between us passing and failing.

You could ask why a change relevant only to the 11/12 financial year was made in April 2013 but I guess UEFA had their reasons.

 

[moomba]

And of course thats not mentioning the legality of FFP itself, currently being heard in a court in Brussels.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

http://www.theguardian.com/football...nited-mike-ashley-david-conn?CMP=share_btn_tw

NUFC Tiger

 

[ADL9798]

For a £50m fine, if there was anything untoward or unfair about the way UEFA had adjudicated and subsequently punished City and PSG with respect to FFP, I absolutely guarantee they would have taken them to court over it.

This isn't just a 3 game ban for your full back that you might not necessarily agree with and it's touch and go as to whether you might consider appealing, £50m is a monumental amount of money even for people as well resourced as the owners of those 2 clubs! The fact that they didn't appeal it tells me that these guys knew they had been caught out and were more likely than not in the wrong here.