Football club finances / FFP

[Magma]

our wages will be lower due to the new performance based incentive pay we've shifted to, like barca. i think the cap is 170k as the base wage. so yaya and kun i'm pretty sure are on that amount.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Don't think Cardiff will be in any trouble. Tan withdrew the bonuses offer as soon as he knew it was wrong so no punishment apparently.

In that context it seems fine to me. I guess the FA need to control who is paying who, and what they are getting out of it.

Mike Ashley offered the first team players $10m at the start of the season as a reward for a top 10 finish - it could be a bit different to Tan/Cardiff as Ashley and co negotiated an agreement with a player delegation (so had clear agreement between both parties).

As far as I can recall, no one from the FA or in the media mentioned at the time we couldn't do that and as far as can tell, the agreement is still in place.

 

[Jatz]

So that's why he agreed to sell Cabaye. Was hoping for a big form slump to 11th place

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Our result were released last week and by and larger were quite healthy and we are definitely working within the FFP guidelines.

• £9.9m profit (third year in a row we've had a profit).
• Turnover of £95.9m - up from £93.3m.
• £17.1m commercial revenue (24.2% increase).
• The wage bill fell to £64.1m, with the wage-to-turnover ratio down four per cent to 64 per cent.
• Debt of $129m still owed to Mike Ashley (interest free loan).

Next year's figures should see a huge jump again - no transfers in, the sale of Cabaye, the Wonga deal...

If only Mike Ashley chose to run the club properly -our commercial revenue is very weak considering what it could be. Instead of getting money from commercial sponsorships at the ground during games, on those boards at press conferences etc, Mike Ashley chooses to give free advertising to his Sports Direct empire and the various brands he owns.

If we ever want to push on and try and take on the rich teams, we need to squeeze every cent we can from the club at every opportunity. By all means I support running the club viably and responsibly but more can definitely be done. It's staggering to think that almost every decision the club hierarchy makes is seemingly designed to infuriate the fans or destablise the club

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...d-post-profits-for-third-successive-year.html

 

[NUFC Tiger]

So that's why he agreed to sell Cabaye. Was hoping for a big form slump to 11th place

There is some talk that Joe Kinnear was forced to resign because he sold Cabaye for less than Ashley wanted - could very well be true

 

[iluvparis]

because it's a payment outside their contract. i believe it would constitute a 3rd party payment.

I understand why 3rd party payments are an issue under a salary cap arrangement but with no cap in place why does the league even care?

 

[jd2010]

Mike Ashley offered the first team players $10m at the start of the season as a reward for a top 10 finish - it could be a bit different to Tan/Cardiff as Ashley and co negotiated an agreement with a player delegation (so had clear agreement between both parties).

As far as I can recall, no one from the FA or in the media mentioned at the time we couldn't do that and as far as can tell, the agreement is still in place.

Bonuses have to be lodged with the FA 2 weeks before the season starts

 

[Magma]

I understand why 3rd party payments are an issue under a salary cap arrangement but with no cap in place why does the league even care?

many european leagues don't like outside influences other than the club and the player. especially ever since the tevez/masch sagas. i'm not even sure which leagues are okay with third party, i know portugal are, it's how porto have gotten so many south american talents on the cheap, and sold them for big money.

falcao was mostly third party owned at atletico, and the reason why his fee was so huge at monaco was because they had to buy out the fee the third party wanted. chelsea had to buy out luiz, etc etc. i believe in the end it might have something to do with trade laws in europe, but i'm really not totally sure except that it's mostly frowned upon. i want to say it's restriction of trade due to the outside influence, i highly doubt falcao had any real say in his move to monaco, it was the biggest pay day for the third party(ies) involved. in fact, i recall reading that atletico barely saw any of the fee, if any of it at all.

 

[jd2010]

many european leagues don't like outside influences other than the club and the player. especially ever since the tevez/masch sagas. i'm not even sure which leagues are okay with third party, i know portugal are, it's how porto have gotten so many south american talents on the cheap, and sold them for big money.

falcao was mostly third party owned at atletico, and the reason why his fee was so huge at monaco was because they had to buy out the fee the third party wanted. chelsea had to buy out luiz, etc etc. i believe in the end it might have something to do with trade laws in europe, but i'm really not totally sure except that it's mostly frowned upon. i want to say it's restriction of trade due to the outside influence, i highly doubt falcao had any real say in his move to monaco, it was the biggest pay day for the third party(ies) involved. in fact, i recall reading that atletico barely saw any of the fee, if any of it at all.

It's massive in the Ukraine and Russia too and that's why they have so many Brazilians go over there because the league allows the 3rd party arrangements

 

[moomba]

It has a real impact on FFP too.

Chelsea buys Falcao for £50m on a 5 year contract and it increases their expenses by £10m a year for the next 5 years. Zenit buys 25% of him and it only adds £2.5m amortisation expenses.

 

[Zidane98]

It has a real impact on FFP too.

Chelsea buys Falcao for £50m on a 5 year contract and it increases their expenses by £10m a year for the next 5 years. Zenit buys 25% of him and it only adds £2.5m amortisation expenses.

Hopefully FFP puts an end to these ridiculous transfer fees because ultimately they usually get wasted (torres liverpool to chelsea. spurs with the bale money).

 

[moomba]

Some work. Some don't.

£38m for Aguero was a bargain. £80m for trans was a bargain.

FFP has nothing to do with it really.

 

[ADL9798]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/05/liverpool-champions-league-financial-fair-play

Clubs not currently in European competition don't have to pass FFP according to this article. Makes life slightly easier for clubs looking to break into the Champions League as that feat is nearly impossible to achieve without making a loss, which I think is probably a good thing as it lessens the likelihood of the same teams qualifying for CL year after year.

 

[moomba]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/05/liverpool-champions-league-financial-fair-play

Clubs not currently in European competition don't have to pass FFP according to this article. Makes life slightly easier for clubs looking to break into the Champions League as that feat is nearly impossible to achieve without making a loss, which I think is probably a good thing as it lessens the likelihood of the same teams qualifying for CL year after year.

Would totally defeat the purpose of the whole thing I would have thought.

I suspect people are adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5.

The 76 are the teams in Europe that made a loss in 11/12. I can't see UEFA (as incompetent as they are) ignoring everyone else. That'll just be the next stage after this lot are looked into.

 

[SM]

We made a loss of 34mil for the 12/13 season. No penalties apply to those figures, only if we experience similar losses for the 13/14 season (which we won't). We made money from the summer transfers in the latest off season and will be promoted which brings it's own substantial funds. As expected, we will be fine.

Important to remember that our owner wiped all that debt (including the 34mil) this season so things are looking much better for us.

A loss is different to debt though, I wouldn't be so confident of not making a significant loss in the PL.

 

[Jatz]

A loss is different to debt though, I wouldn't be so confident of not making a significant loss in the PL.

Once again, as you know nothing about our club at all, commenting on it is fairly silly.

That loss included the purchase of the stadium as well as all the hacks that Sven signed to PL wages that are no longer at the club. This season we are looking likely to make a profit despite playing in the Championship. Our financial stability is much better than most clubs in the Championship and there is no reason to think it will somehow get dire for us if we get promoted.

 

[SM]

Once again, as you know nothing about our club at all, commenting on it is fairly silly.

That loss included the purchase of the stadium as well as all the hacks that Sven signed to PL wages that are no longer at the club. This season we are looking likely to make a profit despite playing in the Championship. Our financial stability is much better than most clubs in the Championship and there is no reason to think it will somehow get dire for us if we get promoted.

Forgive me for speaking about my own club's experience with promotion as if I have any clue about what happens to Championship club's when they get promoted. None of Cardiff, Palace and City will be expecting anything other than a decent sized loss this season.

Except of course for the massively increased wages and player prices needed to stay in the PL. Even with the increased prize money it still seems impossible for smaller clubs not to incur losses.

 

[Jatz]

Forgive me for speaking about my own club's experience with promotion as if I have any clue about what happens to Championship club's when they get promoted. None of Cardiff, Palace and City will be expecting anything other than a decent sized loss this season.

Except of course for the massively increased wages and player prices needed to stay in the PL. Even with the increased prize money it still seems impossible for smaller clubs not to incur losses.

I never we said we won't make a loss next season, I suspect we will. With the increase in wages and any transfers that take place, it will obviously rise.

I said there was no reason to think our financial situation would become 'dire' next season should we go up.

Another difference between us and Hull and Palace etc is that our ground holds 32k fans. Doesn't make a big difference on one week but that extra 7k fans will make a difference over 19 home games. Yes I'm aware that not every game will sell out but it does increase our capacity to earn on matchday.

 

[SM]

I never we said we won't make a loss next season, I suspect we will. With the increase in wages and any transfers that take place, it will obviously rise.

I said there was no reason to think our financial situation would become 'dire' next season should we go up.

Another difference between us and Hull and Palace etc is that our ground holds 32k fans. Doesn't make a big difference on one week but that extra 7k fans will make a difference over 19 home games. Yes I'm aware that not every game will sell out but it does increase our capacity to earn on matchday.

Ok sorry, you seemed to suggest there wouldn't be a loss, or that it would be minimal from your comment that you had a loss this year but that didn't matter if you didn't make a loss next year.

It does not make a difference. As our vice chairman noted in his open letter, matchday revenue accounts for 7% of our current revenue, and that's with several sponsorship deals in the works.

 

[Jatz]

Ok sorry, you seemed to suggest there wouldn't be a loss, or that it would be minimal from your comment that you had a loss this year but that didn't matter if you didn't make a loss next year.

It does not make a difference. As our vice chairman noted in his open letter, matchday revenue accounts for 7% of our current revenue, and that's with several sponsorship deals in the works.

We haven't had a loss this year. Those figures were for season 12/13.

It will make a difference over the course of a year, even if it only makes up 7% of current revenue. The ability to have a larger crowd means greater revenue, it's just logic. I am aware that in the big scheme of things it doesn't make much difference but as the new kids on the block, every little bit helps.

 

[SM]

We haven't had a loss this year. Those figures were for season 12/13.

It will make a difference over the course of a year, even if it only makes up 7% of current revenue. The ability to have a larger crowd means greater revenue, it's just logic. I am aware that in the big scheme of things it doesn't make much difference but as the new kids on the block, every little bit helps.

Ah my mistake then, misinterpreted what you were saying, apologies.

I understand that, but the amount of extra revenue from crowds that you get compared to a City or Palace is going to be very very small compared to the 60-70m we get from TV revenue.

 

[Jatz]

Ah my mistake then, misinterpreted what you were saying, apologies.

I understand that, but the amount of extra revenue from crowds that you get compared to a City or Palace is going to be very very small compared to the 60-70m we get from TV revenue.

Of course this season that's absolutely the case. Once we are up next season, we will be getting the same. It really is as vital as ever that clubs make the premier league purely for the incredible amount teams get just for participating in the PL

 

[SM]

Of course this season that's absolutely the case. Once we are up next season, we will be getting the same. It really is as vital as ever that clubs make the premier league purely for the incredible amount teams get just for participating in the PL

I would also assume you guys have far better sponsorship contracts than a team like us - think we have one of the worst shirt sponsorship deals in the top 2 divisions purely because we signed it when we were on the brink of liquidation. Think it's 1m a season or something ludicrous. Thank * that ends this year. Bye bye Cash Converters.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Bonuses have to be lodged with the FA 2 weeks before the season starts

Ah that must have been in it then! Thanks for clearing that up jd!

 

[NUFC Tiger]

It's massive in the Ukraine and Russia too and that's why they have so many Brazilians go over there because the league allows the 3rd party arrangements

Russia and Ukraine are also relatively easy to get work permits for as well I believe - making it easier for those clubs to sign players from South America and other continents. Certainly more relaxed than places like the UK.