Footscray-Fitzroy Merger

[Jade]

Bit of a step back into history...

Whilst I was only a young tacker, I do actually recall the tin rattlers out and about for the Dogs back during 1989 and, as a young fella that had grown up in the western suburbs, had a soft spot for the Dogs.

The league was far less stable than it is today. Within a relatively short period of time we had serious merger/fold discussions surrounding no less than five clubs - death was a VERY real possibility for the clubs involved.

I know that all the clubs involved in those discussions have a sense of pride in getting themselves out of the mire, but for mine the Save The Dogs campaign was the most impressive grass roots intervention I've seen. Quite literally within a matter of weeks The Dogs went from certainties to merge to ready for the 1990 season with a fully funded license, sponsorship and direction for the future.

Nowadays I am highly critical of Peter Gordon for a multitude of reasons, and believe he should leave the Dogs, but there is no doubt that without his action some 25 years ago the Dogs as we know them today would not be here.

What are your recollections of this failed merger? In hindsight would you have liked to see it occur? How do you feel about the possibility of mergers going forward after the Brisbane-Fitzroy merge? And of course if you have any thoughts on the other suggested mergers of the time please feel free to share them.

A very interesting time in the games history.

 

[Kram]

Brisbane-Fitzroy was practically a takeover, not a merger.

 

[Jade]

Brisbane-Fitzroy was practically a takeover, not a merger.

Yes I know.

Funnily enough at the time the Fitzroy-Footscray merger was seen as just as much of a takeover of the Dogs by the Lions.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yes I know.

Funnily enough at the time the Fitzroy-Footscray merger was seen as just as much of a takeover of the Dogs by the Lions.

As was Melbourne-Hawthorn. I don't think there were any true mergers at the time.

 

[Kappa]

Wonder how it would go down if 2 melbourne clubs merged in modern times

 

[Jade]

Wonder how it would go down if 2 melbourne clubs merged in modern times

That was actually an interesting thought I had.

Today the league is much more robust and stable. The AFL has (whilst it does attract valid criticism in other ways) almost 'fold-proofed' the league.

I'm not sure I see a realistic merger proposition that could occur today.

Worth remembering though, that the height of the 'merger craze' occurred in the early to mid 90s, not really that long ago (from a historical sense).

 

[JA27]

im pretty sure in the history threads someone posted a copy of the actual proposal contract didn't they

 

[Jade]

im pretty sure in the history threads someone posted a copy of the actual proposal contract didn't they

Not sure, would love to see it though.

The Wiki article on it has some basic details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzroy_Bulldogs

 

[Jade]

As was Melbourne-Hawthorn. I don't think there were any true mergers at the time.

I think it would be almost impossible for emotionally invested members from both clubs to see a completely equitable deal.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Hipster dream team

 

[Jade]

The Dogs are still a terrible club with no supporters and no hope and it seems it will ever be thus, and Fitzroy don't exist in the AFL anymore. Yay Peter Gordon.

$37m in revenue, net assets ~$23m. They aren't a huge club but they definitely have the 'stuff' to work with.

Not that I want to attack your club, but its probably worth reminding you that Port were in very perilous position themselves recently. So much so, that if the environment existed today as it did back in the era we are discussing, they may not have survived.

 

[Crawb]

A thread about a merger? Roylion post in 3, 2, 1....

 

[TaylorMade]

Was young at the time but remember when we moved to Western Oval as our home ground.

Was pretty hard to see the game as most of the stadium was just concrete slabs. Dad used to knock back 2 cans before the first quarter so I could stand on them and see above the crowd.

 

[Papa G]

$37m in revenue, net assets ~$23m. They aren't a huge club but they definitely have the 'stuff' to work with.

Not that I want to attack your club, but its probably worth reminding you that Port were in very perilous position themselves recently. So much so, that if the environment existed today as it did back in the era we are discussing, they may not have survived.

Do you think Footscray could ever do a Port Adelaide? Port had 5-6 years in the doldrums, now it seems we have righted the ship and look at us explode. Do you think Footscray could ever do that? They've had 90 years to try and it hasn't happened yet.

 

[JeffDunne]

Wonder how it would go down if 2 melbourne clubs merged in modern times

Carlton/Essendon would be my choice.

Would make subsequent AFL investigations so much easier.

 

[Jade]

Carlton/Essendon would be my choice.

Would make subsequent AFL investigations so much easier.

Actually did chuckle.

 

[MotleyLemon]

Wonder how it would go down if 2 melbourne clubs merged in modern times

 

[Mofra]

One of my most vivid memories was a guy in an old South Melbourne jumper getting on stage and telling everyone "the AFL did it to us, don't let them do it to you!"

Dad bought an "Up yours Oakley!" sticker and put it on the car before we left. Stayed there for years.

 

[Augustine]

Mergers suck. Almost always does one team dominate the other. But in spite of this neither fan-base is ever truly happy.

 

[Mofra]

Mergers suck. Almost always does one team dominate the other. But in spite of this neither fan-base is ever truly happy.

North Melbourne has merged twice (once with West Melbourne, once with VFL side Essendon A who was keeping the VFL: side Essendon out of Windy Hill) and seem to be chugging along nicely with a proud history and never being relocated.
I believe North may have played with a red stripe on their jumper for a year prior to joining the VFL in 1925.

Essendon VFL side begged North Melbourne for a merger at one point too, but North refused.

 

[Jade]

North Melbourne has merged twice (once with West Melbourne, once with VFL side Essendon A who was keeping the VFL: side Essendon out of Windy Hill) and seem to be chugging along nicely with a proud history and never being relocated.
I believe North may have played with a red stripe on their jumper for a year prior to joining the VFL in 1925.

Essendon VFL side begged North Melbourne for a merger at one point too, but North refused.

There's a whole touchy topic on the Essendon - North arrangements ~1920s.

A very interesting topic on its own.

 

[doggies ftw]

Look at you explode? The Dogs have the exact same number of flags in this comp that Port do.

Yes, I believe they are more than capable of growing quickly. I suspect they need to rid themselves of Gordon, but its list looks very healthy, I can see them becoming a very good onfield side very soon, which if leveraged correctly can translate into a very healthy growth spurt. I like the idea of exploring Whitten Oval as a viable stadium, a standalone VFL side is a good thing.

They are already achieving very healthy revenue growth (up ~20% in 2 years).

I genuinely think you have an overly inflated view of your own club my friend.

You obviously have a bit of knowledge on the subject so I'm keen to hear what your problems are with Gordan.

He has truly been great for this football club. Obviously he saved us once but now he is the reason that Edgewater is now back on track and will open this year, without him it might never have gotten off the ground which could have killed the club. Has tipped at least $1mil into the club from his own pockets. Has given us a bit more of a public presence, pushed the AFL extremely hard for equalization for the benefit of the whole AFL. Overseen our biggest sponsorship deal in our history with Mission, and we've also recently signed a pretty good deal with Victoria University which actually has quite a bit of potential. Made it his mission to bring footy back to WO and a standalone VFL team. And theres probably more he's done in recent years that I can't think of right now. You might not like the man himself (not many Essendon supporters do at the moment) but you can't question what he's done in recent years for the club.

Looking at our future I see a lot of room to grow into a medium sized club to be honest. We managed to turn a pretty decent profit last year and increase our membership and thats after sitting in the bottom 4 for a few years and increasing our football department spend by a huge amount, were finally getting close to level ground with the rest of the comp which we've never had that luxury before. We're still located in one of the fastest growing parts of Victoria and are still trying to embrace the West. We just started that Mens Health initiative which made the club $1mil last year and we're doing it again this year. Ballarat should bring a bit of money and hopefully supporters, we should really push that hard and we could definitely turn it into a successful second home IMO.

Edgewater will be up and running this year which completely doubles the amount of staff we employ and will have a huge impact on the financial stability of the club. Footy back at WO is huge and last year we were making more off a VFL game at WO then we did in an AFL game at Etihad, more games this year including making it the home of Junior and Womens footy in the west, exploring the options of a few AFL games there which would just be ******* fantastic. Hoping like hell we perform enough on field this year to secure Good Friday which is a real possibility, that would be great for our club and it just has to be us vs North, makes perfect sense and would do us both a world of good. We really do have a big untapped supporter base, while its disappointing they can't get their ******* act together and sign up when the club needs them most, and I could be wrong here but I remember Gordan saying a while back that if everyone that had been a member since like 09 or something, signed up we'd have an extra 20k + members. Just need a bit of true success to rust those people on I reckon.

We need to get out of this deal with Etihad but theres nothing we can do about that until the AFL man up and buy the stadium, and while we've got a hell of a lot less sunday games this year which is great, we still have a terrible fixture, commercial wise, that will improve as we improve on field which is fair enough but the AFL must stop gifting the good time slots almost exclusively to the popular teams, we haven't had a friday night game in 3 years ffs. The obvious answer is to put the good teams in the good time slots, which is perfect for everyone. Who the * wants to watch extremely unattractive, bottom 4 likelys Carlton on Friday night every second week.

Anyway the club has some big big plans to take some huge strides off field within the next 5 years. Which is why we've let Garlick go as we didn't believe he had the experience to take us where we want to go. I feel we will make a big appointment as CEO and it really needs to be, such an important time in the clubs history right now we just need the right men to take these opportunities.

And of course at the end of the day the most important thing to improve off field, is we MUST see some success this time around, I'm quietly confident we will too. Things are building at the doggies, won't be this year and probably not next but s**t I've never seen our list with this much talent on it and I believe it might just be able to take us that one step further this time round. If things go our way of course.

 

[Mr Eagle]

A lot was made about the Dogs rattling the tins and avoiding the merger, but I don't recall anything being said about the Fitzroy side of things. Did they have similar (albeit brief) success at filling the coffers, or were they still just up the creek?

 

[Augustine]

North Melbourne has merged twice (once with West Melbourne, once with VFL side Essendon A who was keeping the VFL: side Essendon out of Windy Hill) and seem to be chugging along nicely with a proud history and never being relocated.
I believe North may have played with a red stripe on their jumper for a year prior to joining the VFL in 1925.

Essendon VFL side begged North Melbourne for a merger at one point too, but North refused.

Well that is true even if its an oversimplification of the history.

 

[Runk]

The Dogs are still a terrible club with no supporters and no hope and it seems it will ever be thus, and Fitzroy don't exist in the AFL anymore. Yay Peter Gordon.

Mate, the Western Bulldogs/Footscray are definitely not a terrible club. If they went the way of the Dodo there'd be a gaping wound in the AFL and Melbourne's west, unlike Port. We'd just replace you with someone else. Ok the doggies aren't the most successful team around but dammit they fight like buggery and have some of the most decent supporters going around. Doggies supporters have heart and soul. They aren't big noters who are too big for their boots, never have been. It's what drives them. This is not a club we can afford to 'see off.'

Let me be very blunt - your club is very lucky to have been invited considering it was hated by the SANFL after your failed bid to get in the AFL & was completely dependent on an already existing team needing to fold/merge in the AFL. Lucky for you Fitzroy let you in. Your club's life was dependent on the death of another. s**t terms to get in and one you shouldn't forget either. Show some respect.