Footscray-Fitzroy Merger

[The_Wookie]

Lucky were we? To be brought in (like the other interstate clubs), to save a league spending beyond its means and completely broke, by paying huge amounts of money for licenses.

The league itself wasnt actually broke, and was quite well off the whole time. In 1989 VFL revenue was almost 30 million a year - more than the SANFL and WAFL combined apparently. In the mid 80s up to 6 clubs were technically broke, but by 1989 only one still was and that was Footscray, which rallied to save itself in any case, not through interstate license sales.

Footscray, Hawthorn and North Melbourne were all no more than little suburban clubs who could all have gone the way of Fitzroy. Nationalisation saved them all and Hawthorn has now gone on to become powerhouses both on and off the field. So respect will be given when received.

I can make a case that nationalisation hasnt helped the smaller clubs at all, especially when combined with ground rationalisation. Loss of return matches against big drawing Victorian clubs sacrificed for home games against low drawing interstate clubs, that are generally not even televised on FTA (and Im looking at teams like Melbourne and the Dogs specifically here), while playing in high cost facilities, does little for attendances and memberships, which in turn puts them on the AFL teat forever.

However, this is balanced against the big victorian clubs rising to the fore as well, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, sometimes Carlton and now Richmond, have all flourished at times to make up for those lower sides. If anyone is subsidising the smaller Victorian clubs, its the larger Victorian clubs..

 

[pazza]

Growing up in Footscray's recruiting zone all my life and despite club loyalty being with the 'Scray's next door neighbours, it seemed like the entire West rallied behind Footscray that October. Certainly felt it in the Werribee/Hoppers Crossing area.

I think the 'Roys had the talent and the money going in, but, no home ground.

But, it was the passion from the downtrodden West that stopped the merger from happening as much as anything else.

 

[Scotland]

The league itself wasnt actually broke, and was quite well off the whole time. In 1989 VFL revenue was almost 30 million a year - more than the SANFL and WAFL combined apparently. In the mid 80s up to 6 clubs were technically broke, but by 1989 only one still was and that was Footscray, which rallied to save itself in any case, not through interstate license sales.

And what would have happened to the VFL finances without license fees?

The VFL could've bailed out clubs or let them die. Neither option would've led to a 12 team VFL in as strong a financial position - hence they went for option C.

I can make a case that nationalisation hasnt helped the smaller clubs at all, especially when combined with ground rationalisation. Loss of return matches against big drawing Victorian clubs sacrificed for home games against low drawing interstate clubs, that are generally not even televised on FTA (and Im looking at teams like Melbourne and the Dogs specifically here), while playing in high cost facilities, does little for attendances and memberships, which in turn puts them on the AFL teat forever.

However, this is balanced against the big victorian clubs rising to the fore as well, Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, sometimes Carlton and now Richmond, have all flourished at times to make up for those lower sides. If anyone is subsidising the smaller Victorian clubs, its the larger Victorian clubs..

Nationalisation has led to more games, a much larger (national) TV audience and in turn a much larger TV rights deal. That has secured the viability of 10 teams in Victoria.

The AFL's business model coupled with the fact that there is a limited pool of corporate sponsorship, match attendees etc. to go around 10 clubs in Victoria is what has hurt the smaller Victorian clubs. If you go back and look at say, the Bulldogs' last H&A season in 1986 they played 9 games at Western Oval and two at Waverley, and their crowds didn't fluctuate a whole lot. Ground rationalisation and 'cashing in' on away crowds is really more of a 90s/2000s thing - after nationalisation.

The AFL could make it fairer for all clubs. They can't make it genuinely fair because clubs won't play a 38 week season, but could make it fairer. They just don't want to because they'd be risking the TV/attendance revenues that come from their "blockbusters" to help clubs they can just give money to and keep in line. It's tax and spend by another name.

 

[The_Wookie]

And what would have happened to the VFL finances without license fees?

The VFL could've bailed out clubs or let them die. Neither option would've led to a 12 team VFL in as strong a financial position - hence they went for option C.

The VFL was fine by 1989. Note that Ports proposed joining fee in 1990 was reportedly dropped way below what was eventually paid by Adelaide.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Growing up in Footscray's recruiting zone all my life and despite club loyalty being with the 'Scray's next door neighbours, it seemed like the entire West rallied behind Footscray that October. Certainly felt it in the Werribee/Hoppers Crossing area.

It was happening in Williamstown aswell.

 

[Scotland]

The VFL was fine by 1989.

With a TV rights deal based on a presence in at least 4 states...

 

[Runk]

Hmmm not bringing it up by stating

"Let me be very blunt - your club is very lucky to have been invited considering it was hated by the SANFL after your failed bid to get in the AFL & was completely dependent on an already existing team needing to fold/merge in the AFL. Lucky for you Fitzroy let you in. Your club's life was dependent on the death of another. s**t terms to get in and one you shouldn't forget either. Show some respect."

Lucky were we? To be brought in (like the other interstate clubs), to save a league spending beyond its means and completely broke, by paying huge amounts of money for licenses.

Footscray, Hawthorn and North Melbourne were all no more than little suburban clubs who could all have gone the way of Fitzroy. Nationalisation saved them all and Hawthorn has now gone on to become powerhouses both on and off the field. So respect will be given when received.

Ok.

I've read a few posts all I can say is that at the end of the day your friend showed a lack of class and respect to not one, but two clubs in his ill thought out post. He was incredibly disrespectful to many good people. No one should defend him and I'm glad no one has. Very classy from the Port board posters.

I need to be clear though.

Port Adelaide Magpies/Power are not a s**t club. I never said it was. It's quite frankly one we should be somewhat envious of.
You have a steely culture much like the Footscray/Western Bulldogs, based on working class people, strong community and a will to fight.
Yours however seems to be different in that you've always felt everyone is against you and must stem from the Magpies part of your sporting DNA.
That what it seems like to me, not saying it's a bad thing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've never argued AFL becoming AFL was a bad thing. I've never said it it made things worse. And I most certainly never spoke about the rich and the poor.
Each club has it's own story of how it came to be.

What was written was made to prove a point to someone who failed to realise themselves and who they represent in a moment of ignorance.
Yes it was said with some anger. And an eye for eye doesn't sit well with me at the end of the day so I apologise to any and all Power/Magpies fans if my words came across as 'disrespectful.'

Enjoy the new season & may your clubs earn the success they deserve.

 

[The_Wookie]

With a TV rights deal based on a presence in at least 4 states...

Seven actually believed in 1986/87 that rights outside of Victoria werent worth paying extra for. Its why the VFL declined to sell them at their offer in 1986, and sold them to Broadcom. Seven later bought the rights back off Broadcom when its ratings tanked.

And while total ratings may have risen, average ratings havent moved much at all, and theres a recent downward trend in that area over the last 6 years.

 

[Riccardo11]

And you should remember that without Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Fremantle and West Coast, there would now be 4 teams in Melbourne. Name me a profitable club in Victoria circa 1989?

Not at all the case.

While it is true many clubs were only able to balance their books in 1987 due to the inflated license fees paid by West Coast and Brisbane, only 8 out of the 11 still remaining in Victoria were in financial difficulty, and only a few of those seriously.

By the time Adelaide came in in 1991, most of those teams were OK, and certainly none were in dire straits by the time the Power joined in 1997, apart from Fitzroy who actually did go bankrupt midway through '96.

We can never argue that going national in 1987 saved a few VFL clubs, my own included, from folding, but to argue you "saved the league" is a gross overstatement.

 

[Freomaniac]

I am curious what would of happened from the 1990s onwards...

Would this combined side make a grand final and possibly win one? The Brisbane lions won 3 flags from 2001-2003.

I am also curious how the old Fitzroy Lions fans would of felt. Would they be happy supporting the western/Footscray lions?. The bright is that the lions would of stayed in Victoria.

 

[cammo78]

I am curious what would of happened from the 1990s onwards...

Would this combined side make a grand final and possibly win one? The Brisbane lions won 3 flags from 2001-2003.

I am also curious how the old Fitzroy Lions fans would of felt. Would they be happy supporting the western/Footscray lions?. The bright is that the lions would of stayed in Victoria.

Have you not read any of the thread?

It was Fitzroy Bulldogs.

And I'd wager the combined side would have been no better than either of the two separate entities (which, for the Dogs, was pretty good thru the 90's/00's).

 

[Roylion]

By the time Adelaide came in in 1991, most of those teams were OK, and certainly none were in dire straits by the time the Power joined in 1997, apart from Fitzroy who actually did go bankrupt midway through '96..

Fitzroy didn't go bankrupt in 1996.

And incidentally Fitzroy made a profit in 1993.

 

[cammo78]

Fitzroy didn't go bankrupt in 1996.

And incidentally Fitzroy made a profit in 1993.

At the risk of sounding ill informed - was the profit a result of funds from Nauru?

 

[Roylion]

At the risk of sounding ill informed - was the profit a result of funds from Nauru?

No.

Nauru didn't lend money to Fitzroy until October 1994. That loan was $1.2 million and was to paid back by 2001.

 

[Dogs till i die]

Do you think Footscray could ever do a Port Adelaide? Port had 5-6 years in the doldrums, now it seems we have righted the ship and look at us explode. Do you think Footscray could ever do that? They've had 90 years to try and it hasn't happened yet.

We already have. Finished 2nd bottom in 96 and were within a whisker of a GF in 97.

 

[The_Wookie]

At the risk of sounding ill informed - was the profit a result of funds from Nauru?

Ive uploaded Fitzroys 1993 Annual Report to my archive and to direct download from here.

According to the Annual report, profit of $29,939.00 (up from a loss of $958,546) was enabled by

• increased membership
  
• significant sponsorship package from Carlton and United Breweries
• the Shweppes Solo Promotion
• overall cost control

The Club brought in new sponsors Shweppes, Nike and the Recycling and Resource Recovery Council.

Revenue was $6,241,443 (up 1.6 million from 4.6 million. Sponsorship was $960,265 (up almost $290,000 - 30% - from $662,400.

Of other interest

• A $10,000 NAB Bank Loan was guaranteed by the Collingwood Football Club
• The AFL paid $1.1 million from the 1993 distribution to Westpac Banking Corporation to pay off the the Westpac Bank overdraft and Commercial Bill

Note: I dont have other annual reports from Fitzroy, i may buy them soon though as this period comes up regularly.

 

[cammo78]

Ive uploaded Fitzroys 1993 Annual Report to my archive and to direct download from here.

According to the Annual report, profit of $29,939.00 (up from a loss of $958,546) was enabled by

• increased membership
  
• significant sponsorship package from Carlton and United Breweries
• the Shweppes Solo Promotion
• overall cost control

The Club brought in new sponsors Shweppes, Nike and the Recycling and Resource Recovery Council.

Revenue was $6,241,443 (up 1.6 million from 4.6 million. Sponsorship was $960,265 (up almost $290,000 - 30% - from $662,400.

Of other interest

• A $10,000 NAB Bank Loan was guaranteed by the Collingwood Football Club
• The AFL paid $1.1 million from the 1993 distribution to Westpac Banking Corporation to pay off the the Westpac Bank overdraft and Commercial Bill

Note: I dont have other annual reports from Fitzroy, i may buy them soon though as this period comes up regularly.

I suppose the AFL didn't like that, and began to turn the screws in 1994.

 

[Roylion]

I suppose the AFL didn't like that, and began to turn the screws in 1994.

The AFL started to turn the screws before then, especially in the wake of the failed Footscray merger. Fitzroy spent a great deal of effort from 1990 - 1995 resisting the AFL's efforts. 1993 was almost a mini-renaissance, both on-field and off-field, before a player exodus, beginning with the Bears (with AFL help) luring Alistair Lynch north, sent the club into a tail-spin. The AFL then pounced, actively encouraging Fitzroy to seek a merger with the AFL's preferred merger partner, the Bears from 1994 onwards. They also put every obstacle possible to prevent Fitzroy generating more income.

 

[Royal Flush]

What geographic area does the word "Kangaroos" represent? It represents their nomadic, playing anywhere that will pay us, stance. Which continues to some extent today, regardless of their name.

Their reverted name is not too far removed from our current name, further to that. Had they been the Kensington Kangaroos, there's every chance a wise admin may well have moved from that to North/Northern Melbourne, anyway.

A bit Rich coming from you in particular. Western Bulldogs , Darwin, Sydney and Canberra, and now oddly enough like pick pocketing thieves pinched Ballarat from the club you are currently criticizing for "Playing anywhere they will pay us"

The blatant stupidity in that statement is that you have played in as many venues as us for premiership points in interstate venues.

 

[Riccardo11]

Fitzroy didn't go bankrupt in 1996.

And incidentally Fitzroy made a profit in 1993.

Nauru put the club into administration in 96 because you were $4.5 mil. in debt and defaulted on a tax bill and player payments. The club needed a loan from the AFL just to be able to host a mid season game at Western Oval against Geelong. As far as I'm aware, the club declared they were bankrupt as early as 1980.

 

[cammo78]

A bit Rich coming from you in particular. Western Bulldogs , Darwin, Sydney and Canberra, and now oddly enough like pick pocketing thieves pinched Ballarat from the club you are currently criticizing for "Playing anywhere they will pay us"

The blatant stupidity in that statement is that you have played in as many venues as us for premiership points in interstate venues.

One game, once a season. And certainly not in a market next in line for relocation. That would be suicidal.

Not a quarter of our home games every year, only turning a profit due to this.

As I said to the other North poster. Don't be upset with us for seizing an opportunity you had every chance of owning. Your "president" couldn't help himself, someone came knocking with a better offer and, true to form, Ballarat was dropped like a hot potato. Then you expected them to sit tight until YOU were good and ready (I.e. bled every last dollar out of Hobart). It's like the girl youre only interested in once she's had enough of your s**t and starts swinging arms with a new fella.

Any wonder they told you to GAGF.

 

[madmug]

It seems that anytime a thread looks at the number of teams in Victoria, the Vic club supporters start at each other. I think they know their are just too many of them & one of them is gunna go somewhere else, sometime.

Whether by their own volition, or pushed.

 

[Hoops]

North Melbourne has merged twice (once with West Melbourne, once with VFL side Essendon A who was keeping the VFL: side Essendon out of Windy Hill) and seem to be chugging along nicely with a proud history and never being relocated.
I believe North may have played with a red stripe on their jumper for a year prior to joining the VFL in 1925.

Essendon VFL side begged North Melbourne for a merger at one point too, but North refused.

I believe University merged with Melbourne.

 

[NorthernLights]

One game, once a season. And certainly not in a market next in line for relocation. That would be suicidal.

Yeah poor old Hawthorn.

 

[Roylion]

Nauru put the club into administration in 96 because you were $4.5 mil. in debt and defaulted on a tax bill and player payments.

That is not correct. In 1996, Fitzroy owed Nauru $1.25 million, which was not due to be paid back until 2001. Fitzroy were making the repayments to Nauru on time. Fitzroy's total debt in 1996 was $2.7 million, of which Nauru was the only secured creditor.

The club needed a loan from the AFL just to be able to host a mid season game at Western Oval against Geelong.

The administrator needed a loan from the AFL to be able to host a mid-season game at the Western Oval. He told the AFL that he would shut the club down straight away, if the AFL did not guarantee the money. They did.

As far as I'm aware, the club declared they were bankrupt as early as 1980.

Fitzroy were certainly not bankrupt in 1980.