Footy Myths

[Roobs321]

Disagree. Hawks were on fire, yes. But we were pathetic.

Possibly. But I watched all Swans games in 2014, and for me, it was just a dominant and complete performance from the Hawks. They gave the Swans little opportunity to wrestle back momentum. Any side would have looked pathetic. Sure, the Swans were certainly capable of better football, but I still think on the day they would have beaten practically any other side, and comfortably.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hissy fit?
OK.
But "pull your head out of your arse" is a respectful contribution to a discussion is it?

Glad we cleared that up.

Who said it was? I clearly don't respect your Sydney-centric viewpoint.

Fine, ignore the independent opinions I referred to*. Seems to be your modus operandi. Best you can come up with is a very short list of names, with no corroboration whatsoever that they are somehow "dickheads". Well that's really elevating us all now isn't it? How exactly is Dan Hanneberry a dickhead? Well, it seems he just is, because Echols said so.

If I seriously have to point out what constitutes these guys being dickheads then you're too far gone. Forget about it.

*Garry Lyon, yeah, such a Swans fanboy. Alister Lynch likewise. Michael Voss. Always knew he was a Swans mole up there at the Lions. Martin Blake. Yeah, he only wrote a whole book on the topic.

And swallow it whole, you did.

Disingenuous backtrack. Who else could you possibly mean? Sorry, dig me up one single quote from the press referring to a no-dickheads policy allegedly in place at any other club. Argue the existence of the actual policy all you like, but the term applies exclusively to Sydney.

Go read my initial post again FFS. There's no mention of Sydney. There IS mention of "all clubs".

You, and only you, wanted to make this about Sydney.

My pleasure.

Then stick by it.

Stop replying.

 

[ThisIsJake]

No let's discuss it in detail, I think that you know you'd lose that's why you want to leave it at that.

Be my guest.

But the only statistic I can really give is his disposal efficiency which is below par in comparison to Pendlebury, Watson, Mitchell etc...
Pendlebury and Watson get tagged my the best tagger every week also, and no he isn't under more pressure than them because he has worse mids around him, infact he has better mids around him than at Collingwood.

And his disposal efficiency doesn't even tell the whole story, any kick that goes 40+ metres to a contest is considered effective and he bangs it long to 50/50s in clearance situations alot, which makes his efficiency look better.

But stats don't tell the story properly, just watch him play, I do every week because I love the way he plays. But it is evident that he has a flaw in his game and that is his disposal, it's not shocking but it is definitely not elite.

I really need to stop having BigFooty arguments, way too time consuming.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Who said it was? I clearly don't respect your Sydney-centric viewpoint.



If I seriously have to point out what constitutes these guys being dickheads then you're too far gone. Forget about it.



And swallow it whole, you did.



Go read my initial post again FFS. There's no mention of Sydney. There IS mention of "all clubs".

You, and only you, wanted to make this about Sydney.


Then stick by it.

Stop replying.

Sheesh. Lamest replies you could possibly have come up with. Weak as water.

Funny, I recall you were always a pretty decent poster in the past. Something not right today? Maybe you should see someone?

Yes, I'd like to ignore you, but the dialogue box says I can't do that to a "staff member". Please override that if you can, because this is getting embarrassing.

 

[worthy]

Hissy fit?

OK.

But "pull your head out of your arse" is a respectful contribution to a discussion is it?

Glad we cleared that up.


Fine, ignore the independent opinions I referred to*. Seems to be your modus operandi. Best you can come up with is a very short list of names, with no corroboration whatsoever that they are somehow "dickheads". Well that's really elevating us all now isn't it? How exactly is Dan Hanneberry a dickhead? Well, it seems he just is, because Echols said so.

*Garry Lyon, yeah, such a Swans fanboy. Alister Lynch likewise. Michael Voss. Always knew he was a Swans mole up there at the Lions. Martin Blake. Yeah, he only wrote a whole book on the topic.


Disingenuous backtrack. Who else could you possibly mean? Sorry, dig me up one single quote from the press referring to a no-dickheads policy allegedly in place at any other club. Argue the existence of the actual policy all you like, but the term applies exclusively to Sydney.


My pleasure.

Sydney's Dan Hannebery warned about off-field behaviour
Date
March 19, 2014

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Caroline Wilson
Chief Football Writer for The Age
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Dan Hannebery's friendship with Lance Franklin has been a source of constant speculation in recent weeks. Photo: Sebastian Costanzo
Sydney officials warned Dan Hannebery in December about his off-field behaviour after becoming concerned about repeated reports linked to the young All-Australian midfielder.
But the club has denied that Hannebery’s recent car accident was fuelled by alcohol or drugs, nor that the warning involved his new-found friendship with Lance Franklin.
While the Swans refused to take a public position on Hannebery, it is understood that football chiefs, including coach John Longmire and football director Dean Moore, were moved to confront the 2010 NAB Rising Star after continued stories came back to the club regarding Hannebery’s off-field lifestyle.
Hannebery, 23, was reminded that he would continue to face scrutiny as a star AFL player and should move to curtail any behaviour that drew attention to him.

Certainly showing some strong signs

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sydney's Dan Hannebery warned about off-field behaviour
Date
March 19, 2014

• (29)
• Read later

Caroline Wilson
Chief Football Writer for The Age
View more articles from Caroline Wilson
Email Caroline

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Dan Hannebery's friendship with Lance Franklin has been a source of constant speculation in recent weeks. Photo: Sebastian Costanzo
Sydney officials warned Dan Hannebery in December about his off-field behaviour after becoming concerned about repeated reports linked to the young All-Australian midfielder.
But the club has denied that Hannebery’s recent car accident was fuelled by alcohol or drugs, nor that the warning involved his new-found friendship with Lance Franklin.
While the Swans refused to take a public position on Hannebery, it is understood that football chiefs, including coach John Longmire and football director Dean Moore, were moved to confront the 2010 NAB Rising Star after continued stories came back to the club regarding Hannebery’s off-field lifestyle.
Hannebery, 23, was reminded that he would continue to face scrutiny as a star AFL player and should move to curtail any behaviour that drew attention to him.

A bit lacking in actual detail for my liking. Personally, I don't call people dickheads without justification.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but "recent car accident"? He left the handbrake off on his VW Kombi (real dickhead vehicle, that) when parking at a hippy music festival, and it rolled into a couple of other cars causing minor damage.

But happy to be corrected if there was some other more serious incident.

 

[worthy]

A bit lacking in actual detail for my liking. Personally, I don't call people dickheads without justification.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but "recent car accident"? He left the handbrake off on his VW Kombi (real dickhead vehicle, that) when parking at a hippy music festival, and it rolled into a couple of other cars causing minor damage.

But happy to be corrected if there was some other more serious incident.

One handbrake left off on a Kombi probably doesn't represent "repeated reports" and "continued stories came back to the club regarding Hannebery’s off-field lifestyle".
You said "with no corroboration whatsoever that they are somehow "dickheads"."
I was merely giving you some corroboration that might point to some "dickhead" behaviour.

 

[mike123]

On Ablett's kicking I don't think it's elite but just below elite.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sheesh. Lamest replies you could possibly have come up with. Weak as water.

Funny, I recall you were always a pretty decent poster in the past. Something not right today? Maybe you should see someone?

Yes, I'd like to ignore you, but the dialogue box says I can't do that to a "staff member". Please override that if you can, because this is getting embarrassing.

Firstly "I'm special", and now I need to "see someone".
So implying someone is mentally handicapped or suffering from a mental health concern is your go.

And yet I'm lame and weak.


Just let it go. Sydney have dickheads on their list, all clubs do.

When you are dealing with a bunch of blokes aged between 18 and 30 you're not going to get 100% of them being top class blokes.

 

[Cyclonus]

BigFooty Myth: Hawks and Swans fans never hijack a thread.

 

[KillaKanga]

BigFooty Myth: Hawks and Swans fans never hijack a thread.

Pipedown.

I'm still trying to work out if Dan Hannebry is a dic*head or is just a myth

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Pipedown.

I'm still trying to work out if Dan Hannebry is a dic*head or is just a myth

Dickhead or not, I'll take him at Collingwood.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Firstly "I'm special", and now I need to "see someone".
So implying someone is mentally handicapped or suffering from a mental health concern is your go.

And yet I'm lame and weak.


Just let it go. Sydney have dickheads on their list, all clubs do.

When you are dealing with a bunch of blokes aged between 18 and 30 you're not going to get 100% of them being top class blokes.

The "special" dig was a cheap play on words and I apologise unreservedly for that. I was a little taken aback by the vociferousness of your posts and wondered what I'd done to make you use such abusive language, but you're right, there was no call for that.

But a neutral observer calls you on it and you respond with a cryptic deflection about the internet and anger; I express surprise in that I recall your posts are usually much classier; that today's offerings are a little out of character, to say the least.

And you take offense that I'm concerned about a fellow human being's mental health? I take mental health very seriously and your posts appeared erratic, to say the least.

 

[estibador]

So my myth stands, then. We didn't enter the VFL with a state team.

I only ever hear that version of the myth from eagles fans though.

The real version is that your first two premierships were won with a state team. Since eagles fans can't argue against that they change the argument to one that is more defensible.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

Myth: The 2008 GF was an epic upset that nobody saw coming.

Reality: Hawthorn's odds on Brownlow night were $2.65. Only slightly longer than Port 2004 and Brisbane 2003 who were both $2.45. Sydney in 2012 were $2.85.

Martin Flanagan, Mick Malthouse and Tony Jones all tipped Hawthorn.

This misconception about this GF is an epic WTF IMO and the myth only seems to be growing. FFS Geelong was only leading the Bulldogs by 9 points with 8 minutes to go in the PF. Yes, overall Geelong in 2008 was greater but not by late September; Hawthorn's "form ladder" position would have eclipsed Geelong's.

------

Myth: Port 2007 is one the worst teams to contest a GF.

Reality: their performance on 29/9/2007 is the poorest in AFL GF history but they were not an epic outsider going into that game. Tim Lane tipped them.

--------

Myth: In the Dunstall v Lockett debate Dunstall should be ranked higher due to his superior defensive game and he was also far more selfless.

Reality: Career averages through the relevant available data -

Tackles

Dunstall - 0.75 per game

Lockett - 0.68

Handballs

Dunstall - 2.26

Lockett - 1.78

Seriously? He layed 0.07 (not a typo ) more tackles per game yet he has this reputation for being a defensive beast? He gave the ball away by hand <0.5 more times a game and this earns him credit for being an epic giver?

I'm not even saying Dunstall isn't the better player but FFS he wasn't defensively superior to a noticeable degree; in a given H&A season he applied <2 more tackles.

If I were making the case for Dunstall I'd be celebrating his great tribunal record and his lack of off-field issues.

 

[worthy]

Myth: The 2008 GF was an epic upset that nobody saw coming.

Reality: Hawthorn's odds on Brownlow night were $2.65. Only slightly longer than Port 2004 and Brisbane 2003 who were both $2.45. Sydney in 2012 were $2.85.

Martin Flanagan, Mick Malthouse and Tony Jones all tipped Hawthorn.

This misconception about this GF is an epic WTF IMO and the myth only seems to be growing. FFS Geelong was only leading the Bulldogs by 9 points with 8 minutes to go in the PF. Yes, overall Geelong in 2008 was greater but not by late September; Hawthorn's "form ladder" position would have eclipsed Geelong's.

------

Myth: Port 2007 is one the worst teams to contest a GF.

Reality: their performance on 29/9/2007 is the poorest in AFL GF history but they were not an epic outsider going into that game. Tim Lane tipped them.

--------

Myth: In the Dunstall v Lockett debate Dunstall should be ranked higher due to his superior defensive game and he was also far more selfless.

Reality: Career averages through the relevant available data -

Tackles

Dunstall - 0.75 per game

Lockett - 0.68

Handballs

Dunstall - 2.26

Lockett - 1.78

Seriously? He layed 0.07 (not a typo ) more tackles per game yet he has this reputation for being a defensive beast? He gave the ball away by hand <0.5 more times a game and this earns him credit for being an epic giver?

I'm not even saying Dunstall isn't the better player but FFS he wasn't defensively superior to a noticeable degree; in a given H&A season he applied <2 more tackles.

If I were making the case for Dunstall I'd be celebrating his great tribunal record and his lack of off-field issues.

Good post,
Out of interest, do you have any Goal Assist stats for the two.

 

[Scotland]

I only ever hear that version of the myth from eagles fans though.

The real version is that your first two premierships were won with a state team. Since eagles fans can't argue against that they change the argument to one that is more defensible.

Why would non-Eagles fans debunk an Eagles myth?

How many non-Freo fans defend the 'Freo traded Lloyd and Lucas LOLZ' stuff?

The real version of events is that we recruited a squad of players under the rules that applied to us at the time. You're just bitter because by the time West Coast Lite came along access to players in the WAFL wasn't as valuable. Blame the VFL. The rules were put in place to keep us down. It was by their own doing they created a monster.

Given how footy recruiting was done in the 80s you don't reckon we might've gone after the 14 players in this side we couldn't get instead of some kids playing in the WAFL and WAFL Colts?

Backs: Brad Hardie Geoff Miles Shane Ellis
Half-backs: Dean Laidley Ross Glendinning Rod Lester-Smith
Centres: Peter Davidson Leon Baker Phil Narkle
Half-forwards: Gary Buckenara Peter Sartori Andrew Macnish
Forwards: Peter Wilson Brian Peake Maurice Rioli
Ruck: Laurie Keene Dwayne Lamb Michael Mitchell
Reserves: Wayne Blackwell, Paul Harding, Colin Waterson, Mark Bairstow

 

[Scotland]

Good post,
Out of interest, do you have any Goal Assist stats for the two.

Goal assist stats only started being recorded in 2003 IIRC.

Dunstall vs Lockett also needs to be viewed a la Fevola vs Brown or Franklin. Dunstall, like Brown & Franklin played in strong teams most of his career. Good supply but competition for the ball. Lockett, like Fev played in weak teams most of his career. Lesser supply but often the sole focal point.

Both phenomenal players.

 

[Faysals Swans]

That Ablett is perfect and never does anything wrong.

Every single time Ablett misses a target or loses a contest the commentators always say 'a rare mistake from Ablett' and it happens on multiple occassions every single game, drives me insane.

He is a champion but just isn't one of the better disposers of the footy, why are commentators/media so scared to say a bad word about our very best players.

Got to disagree with this one, he racks up 40 possies every game an makes maybe one or two mistakes. So that means every time he gets the ball he is a 6-8% chance to cough it up. No ones perfect, but no one is ablett either

 

[Sugar2Sideshow]

Player A, champion of the game, multiple AA, B&Fs etc over a long career but never won a flag would give up all his individual accolades to have the premiership medal.

Never have believed that a player who achieved massively individually in the game would give up all that goes with being that player to have a nondescript career but have won a premiership medal.

Maybe not but I'm sure it would have been nice...

 

[telsor]

Dickhead or not, I'll take him at Collingwood.

I thought Collingwood had a 'no non-dickheads' policy.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I'd suggest you're the one being insular.

If you take the trouble to read a little more widely, you'll find there's no shortage of independent opinions stating that Sydney's culture is indeed something different, something other clubs want to emulate (your club probably doesn't need to. Saying Sydney is special does not mean anyone is implying there are no other special clubs in the AFL, which is the usually kneejerk BF response.)

As to the specifics of the putative no-dickheads policy, yes, we admit it's not an official policy, yes, it's a convenient media shorthand, to an extent. But only an insular bigot could look at Sydney's team ethos and conclude that dickheads are readily tolerated there.

And to get back to my original point, what is your actual proof?

Saying something because it feels to you that it should be true, is not quite the dictionary definition of "proof".

what a crock - Sydney culture something different

FFS

 

[Borussia Teeth]

I thought Collingwood had a 'no non-dickheads' policy.

Ha ha, yep, from the president down to Joffa.

 

[CyrilDaSquirrel]

Dunstall, like Brown & Franklin played in strong teams most of his career. Good supply but competition for the ball. Lockett, like Fev played in weak teams most of his career. Lesser supply but often the sole focal point.

Both phenomenal players.

That is a classic myth right there. Chewy posted some stats on this elsewhere - for the last 60-65% of their careers, Dunstall was in the poorer team.

It's one of the great football myths that Plugger Lockett always played in crap teams and Dunstall always played for a good team.
This would be true of the 1980's, however the bulk of their goals (over 60%) were kicked in the 1990's

• 777 of Dunstall's 1,254 goals (62%)
• 810 of Lockett's 1,360 goals (60%)

Dunstall in the 90's
777 goals @ 4.92 per game
Played in 158 matches for 87.5 wins (55%)

Lockett in the 90's
810 goals @ 4.88 per game
Played in 166 matches for 95.5 wins (58%)

Also, the idea that (individually) kicking goals is harder in a crap team seems to be a myth as well. We saw it last year with Cameron, the idea that he's amazing because he's kicking 60 goals for GWS. He is a good player, but the GWS bit has little bearing on that. If anything, Lockett and Dunstall are proof of that. They both played in excellent teams and rubbish teams and it seemed to make little difference to their output. The poorer supply was balanced out by being the focus of the attack.

 

[craffles]

That is a myth but for a different reason. A seasoned player called Rick Barham at Sydney seeking a contract. Barham said no. The player said "Why?" Barham said "Because you're a dickhead". The "dickhead" uses the story as part of his professional story and that's where it came from.

That said, at Sydney it has come to mean you won't play senior football unless you are prepared to play your role selflessly etc etc.

Name the player, stop puss footing around it