Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[Art Vandelay_]

Jimmy Bartel and James Kelly have been asked to play the role of small defender the last couple of years. The Geelong football club had Joel Hamling, Jake Kolodjashnij, Jed Bews and Jackson Thurlow running around in the VFL, holding their own during this period of time. Ok' Bews got 7 games, but it should have been more than that. Anyone who watches VFL could see this kid was going to make it very early on and he should have at least played upwards of 12 games last season.

Bartel played in the backline throughout 2013. How many of those above were 'ready'? Kolo wasn't at the club, Hamling was in his 2nd season after being drafted as a rake. Were Bews or Thurlow ready back then?? I don't really think so tbh, iirc Jackson got a game or two in 2013 while Bews fitness faded badly in his first season last year. On ability Bews yes last season but again his fitness was lacking (which he himself admitted).

We have been crying out for more strong bodied midfielders. We had Jordan Schroder doing all he could last year, but still didn't get a look in. Instead, Chris Scott wanted to see what Jesse Stringer or Jackson Sheringham had in store. Both guys are no longer on any AFL list, while Jordan Schorder is going to play his first VFL game for Essendon tomorrow. You would have to be a very brave person to suggest he won't feature amongst their better players in that one.
Whether Schroder was ever going to make is not the point. It's the fact he was not given any opportunity whatsoever which rests solely on our senior coach.

You bloody well hope Hamling + Schroder remain in the VFL, eventually getting de-listed, because Taylor Hunt is another that looks like fitting in pretty well over at Richmond.

Schroder was a bit under-utilised like Walker has been, and I was a bit bemused that he was cut, that said who would you have cut to retain him or Hunt for that matter?? Probably would have cost Cowan or Menzel, both of which I'm glad are still here. Whilst the coach is partly responsible for who is cut amongst other opinions but to keep Schroder in particular would have seen the end to someone else. Remember iirc Balme said they were reluctant to cut Taylor Hunt but did so anyway and I agree with PO I think who said he appears to thriving under a fresh start.

Lastly I agree with manboob above its a bit disingenuous. They have removed quite a few players under Scott's tenure. Made hard calls on some older players [one of which is now a taboo subject around here] and have handed out nearly as many debuts as the expansion clubs, all while being denied the top 10 picks which are the best chance to get 200 gamers. Not to mention that he's added Caddy to the club whilst Motlop and Duncan have both played 95% of their games under Scott and all three appear to be 200 gamers as well.

Can you see any of those we've cut going on to play 200 games either?? 9 years of high finishes are catching up with us a bit and it's not surprising that we're now struggling for a plethora of 150+ game afl footballers.

 

[dazbroncos]

i liked the gif darren, i loled when i saw it

you do enjoy a lol dont u big d?

and dont u worry dazza, ive got plenty of post on paul chapman and why it was a mistake letting him go, just for you

one step closer to ignore…

keep going…

GO Catters

 

[Bobby_]

Hindsight says you send Bartel and SJ to GWS for picks but at what cost to club culture.

Is this the kind of culture which bent over backwards for Brisbane during the Christensen trade?

Have you ever known a successful businessman who is not ruthless?

The Johnson offer from GWS is simply another example of why we have fallen right away. Has Johnson even got another 19 games left in him?

 

[manboob]

I see your point but I have a different view to you as regards our FA/older player policy. I don't see them keeping players out of the side I see them as papering over the cracks. Rivers especially, when Scarlo retired we had no one who could take his place and it is only now that players are in a position to challenge for that spot. And this is Rivers' last year so yeah the plan has worked pretty well.

The Clark/Stanley decision is a bit stranger I'll give you that. I think it came about for a few reasons.
On Clarke: he's a potential A grader that came cheap both in terms of a trade and contract cost.

Hawkins needs support (Walker issue aside).
Dawson and Hmac are cooked. If we can't get a ruck they (Clark/Stanley) are both more than capable.
You still have to be competitive at the end of the day. I think it's better to play finals than not for development's sake.

I still think we can play a forward line of Hawkins, Walker and Clark too. Walker and Clark just have to work and hustle a bit harder up the field which will come.

Lastly Clark/Stanley are 26 and 24 - we needed to counteract our age drift a bit too.

 

[manboob]

Is this the kind of culture which bent over backwards for Brisbane during the Christensen trade?

Have you ever known a successful businessman who is not ruthless?

The Johnson offer from GWS is simply another example of why we have fallen right away. Has Johnson even got another 19 games left in him?

I was more alluding to the fact that GWS wanted both in 2012.
Nothing we could have done about Christensen, it's pick 21 or nothing Brisbane had blown their load on the Beams trade. I'd rather cop pick 21 in the ass than nothing in the preseason draft. Luke Ball...

 

[dazbroncos]

How do you know what would have eventuated if he stayed?
Was he immune to injuries by being a Bomber?

If he had performed as you have described, 10 games would be the minimum. He was not willing to take the offer at Geelong and prove his 2013 was the aberration.

None of us are happy he is off our list AND performing a pivotal role for Essendon, but Chappy is; gets to play ANZAC day games and chances to beat Hawthorn.

Its called revisionist history glasses. You put them on after that fact and you become able to see how things would have worked out.

Plenty of people have them here. they must be available readily…

GO Catters

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Is this the kind of culture which bent over backwards for Brisbane during the Christensen trade?

Have you ever known a successful businessman who is not ruthless?

The Johnson offer from GWS is simply another example of why we have fallen right away. Has Johnson even got another 19 games left in him?

Correct me if I'm wrong but in contract so SJ would have had to agree to the trade, which I think he said no straight away so that scuttles that plan doesn't it...

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I was more alluding to the fact that GWS wanted both in 2012.
Nothing we could have done about Christensen, it's pick 21 or nothing Brisbane had blown their load on the Beams trade. I'd rather cop pick 21 in the ass than nothing in the preseason draft. Luke Ball...

Or Nick Stevens, OT he's ****ed his life up big time!

 

[Bobby_]

Bartel played in the backline throughout 2013. How many of those above were 'ready'? Kolo wasn't at the club, Hamling was in his 2nd season after being drafted as a rake. Were Bews or Thurlow ready back then?? I don't really think so tbh, iirc Jackson got a game or two in 2013 while Bews fitness faded badly in his first season last year. On ability Bews yes last season but again his fitness was lacking (which he himself admitted).
Schroder was a bit under-utilised like Walker has been, and I was a bit bemused that he was cut, that said who would you have cut to retain him or Hunt for that matter?? Probably would have cost Cowan or Menzel, both of which I'm glad are still here. Whilst the coach is partly responsible for who is cut amongst other opinions but to keep Schroder in particular would have seen the end to someone else. Remember iirc Balme said they were reluctant to cut Taylor Hunt but did so anyway and I agree with PO I think who said he appears to thriving under a fresh start.

Lastly I agree with manboob above its a bit disingenuous. They have removed quite a few players under Scott's tenure. Made hard calls on some older players [one of which is now a taboo subject around here] and have handed out nearly as many debuts as the expansion clubs, all while being denied the top 10 picks which are the best chance to get 200 gamers. Not to mention that he's added Caddy to the club whilst Motlop and Duncan have both played 95% of their games under Scott and all three appear to be 200 gamers as well.

Can you see any of those we've cut going on to play 200 games either?? 9 years of high finishes are catching up with us a bit and it's not surprising that we're now struggling for a plethora of 150+ game afl footballers.

Caddy has been stagnating for a year too many mate. A guy with that much talent should not be putting up such piss poor numbers on a weekly basis.
There was a Caddy versus Adams poll on here not too long ago. Our supporters laughed at Adams, fast forward to right now, Buckley seems to be getting a whole lot more out of his younger players than what our coach is.

As for 9 years of high finishing costing us, yeh' probably. But take a good look at the others teams who have been finishing high on the ladder for years on end and haven't taken as pitiful fall as what our club has these last 18 months.
Even bloody Collingwood look to have done a quick rebuild and are going to push for finals yet again in 2015. All because their coach chose to play inexperience/youth all of last season in order to fast track their development.

Meanwhile, we have picked Rivers ahead of Kolodjashnij this weekend. A bloke who will be finished at the end of the year. It's just not good enough, and I am confident our supporters will start to make some more noise about it as we slip a little further back from the rest of the pack.

 

[manboob]

Caddy has been stagnating for a year too many mate. A guy with that much talent should not be putting up such piss poor numbers on a weekly basis.
There was a Caddy versus Adams poll on here not too long ago. Our supporters laughed at Adams, fast forward to right now, Buckley seems to be getting a whole lot more out of his younger players than what our coach is.

Is that the coach's fault though? He hasn't had the greatest run with injury - but agree Caddy needs to pull his finger out soon.

As for 9 years of high finishing costing us, yeh' probably. But take a good look at the others teams who have been finishing high on the ladder for years on end and haven't taken as pitiful fall as what our club has these last 18 months.
Even bloody Collingwood look to have done a quick rebuild and are going to push for finals yet again in 2015. All because their coach chose to play inexperience/youth all of last season in order to fast track their development.

Wrong - 2009-2010-2011 - 4 clubs were consistent fixtures. Cats, Dogs, Saints, and Pies. Dogs, Saints, and Pies won't play finals this year. Didn't play last either. They fell and fell hard. This year is too early to tell. Pies have played Brisbane and Saints and got SPANKED by the Crows. Dogs beat WC and Tiger and got thumped by the Hawks.

But again it's too early to tell. The way the fixture is structured we won't know until round 10 how teams are really shaping up.

 

[Bobby_]

Wrong - 2009-2010-2011 - 4 clubs were consistent fixtures. Cats, Dogs, Saints, and Pies. Dogs, Saints, and Pies won't play finals this year. Didn't play last either. They fell and fell hard. This year is too early to tell. Pies have played Brisbane and Saints and got SPANKED by the Crows. Dogs beat WC and Tiger and got thumped by the Hawks.

But again it's too early to tell.

Again boob, you are ignoring our current demise. Geelong are a very poor team at the moment. We are about to experience a fall like you haven't seen since the late 90's.
For all this crap about how wonderful we are going about things, while not plummeting out of contention, it's going to be all for absolutely nothing. Ultimately, we are going to be in worse shape than the current Dogs & Pies teams. In fact, we will probably only be slight favourites against them this year.

St Kilda are further back than Collingwood and Western Bulldogs though.

 

[manboob]

Disagree 100% but we can revisit it later on in the year. Here is what I know for sure come round 15 we will be in the 8 and above all those teams on the ladder. Bookmark it.

 

[BUSTER29]

Disagree 100% but we can revisit it later on in the year. Here is what I know for sure come round 15 we will be in the 8 and above all those teams on the ladder. Bookmark it.

After what ive seen in the 1st 3 rounds that is a pretty big call.

 

[JUBJUB]

Oh look a Chappy discussion.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Disagree 100% but we can revisit it later on in the year. Here is what I know for sure come round 15 we will be in the 8 and above all those teams on the ladder. Bookmark it.

Maybe not this year, but we haven't finished bottoming out yet.

 

[manboob]

After what ive seen in the 1st 3 rounds that is a pretty big call.

Played the two teams who will play off in the Grand Final. And we can't have played any worse. We should hit the bye 4 and 8 or 5 and 7. After that we play Dogs, GWS and Saints.

 

[manboob]

Maybe not this year, but we haven't finished bottoming out yet.

No doubt. I just don't think the bottom of our bottoming out will be anywhere past 10-12th.
We might turn s**t but there are a lot of sides who are shittier than us and will be for a long time yet.
It's all relative remember.

 

[Bobby_]

the same Dogs and GWS who were given a chance to beat us last year right?
We only just managed to hold on in those games, and both teams look to have improved again this year.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

No doubt. I just don't think the bottom of our bottoming out will be anywhere past 10-12th.
We might turn s**t but there are a lot of sides who are shittier than us and will be for a long time yet.
It's all relative remember.

Depends, how we handle the retirements coming over the next 2 years, do it wrong and I think we'll be bottom 4. We have no replacements for them, and all will be on on sub 20 games, unless we really crank it up this year.

 

[iameviljez]

On another note - for those who have been laying into one decision in particular regarding our list management - I know that statistics aren't everything, but Taylor Hunt did have just ten touches (with four clangers) last night. I'm not saying that he's a terrible player, but perhaps we could cool it a little before saying he'd definitely make our first 18.

 

[Bobby_]

he also got injured early on in the game but played through it.
Probably misses next week as well.

Always helps to watch games instead of relying on statistics alone.

 

[BUSTER29]

he also got injured early on in the game but played through it.
Probably misses next week as well.

Always helps to watch games instead of relying on statistics alone.

Mate,you should know better by now than to criticize the GFC in any way,shape or form on here.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

On another note - for those who have been laying into one decision in particular regarding our list management - I know that statistics aren't everything, but Taylor Hunt did have just ten touches (with four clangers) last night. I'm not saying that he's a terrible player, but perhaps we could cool it a little before saying he'd definitely make our first 18.

What? The guy was injured.

 

[Cataholic]

Seen that guy somewhere around here before......

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Caddy has been stagnating for a year too many mate. A guy with that much talent should not be putting up such piss poor numbers on a weekly basis.
There was a Caddy versus Adams poll on here not too long ago. Our supporters laughed at Adams, fast forward to right now, Buckley seems to be getting a whole lot more out of his younger players than what our coach is.

As for 9 years of high finishing costing us, yeh' probably. But take a good look at the others teams who have been finishing high on the ladder for years on end and haven't taken as pitiful fall as what our club has these last 18 months.
Even bloody Collingwood look to have done a quick rebuild and are going to push for finals yet again in 2015. All because their coach chose to play inexperience/youth all of last season in order to fast track their development.

Meanwhile, we have picked Rivers ahead of Kolodjashnij this weekend. A bloke who will be finished at the end of the year. It's just not good enough, and I am confident our supporters will start to make some more noise about it as we slip a little further back from the rest of the pack.

Collingwood isn't a fair comparison given that they achieved their premiership with a young squad and as such were able to undergo a mini rebuild by trading out players for high picks. Dawes and Wellingham come to mind and have been able to gain a couple of top 10 players in each of the last two years, something we haven't been able to achieve.

The problem is we can't trade away our better players in that fashion as the ones with currency we need for the future and the ones we could part with to hasten the development won't get us picks in the range as what Collingwood have gained. Bottom line they've had 4 top 10 picks in the last 2 drafts, we've had 1.

I agree with boob we won't bottom out as badly as you think we will. Still not changing my prediction, 6-8 this year...

Also Rivers deserves to be in this week and as such is in this week