News Forgotten how to win?

[Maggie5]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...three-years-away/story-fni5f6hd-1227467014397

Interesting article and comment by MM re Collingwood.

"Malthouse, who coached the Magpies for 10 seasons from 2000 to 2011, leading the team to the finals in six of those seasons, said: “I’m sick of excuses about saying ‘they’re young’.
But Malthouse said the Magpies’ issue was largely mental, and, having notched six losses on the trot, believed the team is now in a “habit” of losing.

“They can’t win, that’s part of it,” he told SEN on Monday morning.

“Collingwood is a very good football side, but when you start to lose, it becomes a bit of a habit. Not only does it become a habit, you start to doubt yourself.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

100% right. CBF mode. As I've been saying.

They went into the Freo and Hawthorn games with a dead set plan they believed would get them over the line and they almost did. But when you're dealing with young and inexperienced players, it's hard to get them believing that the process is more important than the result, especially when they cam eso heartbreakingly close.

In their minds right now they're thinking "We threw everything at them, played our best and couldn't win, so what's the point?"
The coaches WANT them thinking "Man, our best is good enough to take it right up to the best teams in the comp, if we just adjust a few things and clean up our game a bit, we can beat them"

This is the crux of the issue right now. With each loss that passes, their confidence is sapped more and more, which is basically what Malthouse is saying. I's not really rocket science, especially if Mick can see it.

 

[Maggie5]

100% right. CBF mode. As I've been saying.

They went into the Freo and Hawthorn games with a dead set plan they believed would get them over the line and they almost did. But when you're dealing with young and inexperienced players, it's hard to get them believing that the process is more important than the result, especially when they cam eso heartbreakingly close.

In their minds right now they're thinking "We threw everything at them, played our best and couldn't win, so what's the point?"
The coaches WANT them thinking "Man, our best is good enough to take it right up to the best teams in the comp, if we just adjust a few things and clean up our game a bit, we can beat them"

This is the crux of the issue right now. With each loss that passes, their confidence is sapped more and more, which is basically what Malthouse is saying. I's not really rocket science, especially if Mick can see it.

Not sure I would put it at 100%, agree it could be part of the problem but for me it is also continuity of the squad, team selection and if you don't want to use the word 'youth', then inexperience.

 

[mattys123]

I think our season imploded in that Port Adelaide game towards the end.

We fought back from a fairly large deficit interstate and dominated for almost the entire final term yet didn't get over the line.

That one hurt the most, and we never fully mentally recovered from it.

Then we got 2 more hits with Cloke and Elliott going down and having to travel to the ground even the players don't like, Etihad.

It was the month or so from hell, and now we've lost that desire and mental strength to compete hard for four quarters.

We will learn from it, but we've blown this season now.

But Mick is right, and he's wrong. We are fielding one of the youngest teams in the league each weekend now, 2nd youngest (of the 18 teams that weekend) vs Eagles, 4th youngest vs Dogs, and 2nd youngest again vs the Dees.

We are young, but that's not the only reason we are losing.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I think our season imploded in that Port Adelaide game towards the end.

We fought back from a fairly large deficit interstate and dominated for almost the entire final term yet didn't get over the line.

That one hurt the most, and we never fully mentally recovered from it.

Then we got 2 more hits with Cloke and Elliott going down and having to travel to the ground even the players don't like, Etihad.

It was the month or so from hell, and now we've lost that desire and mental strength to compete hard for four quarters.

We will learn from it, but we've blown this season now.

But Mick is right, and he's wrong. We are fielding one of the youngest teams in the league each weekend now, 2nd youngest (of the 18 teams that weekend) vs Eagles, 4th youngest vs Dogs, and 2nd youngest again vs the Dees.

We are young, but that's not the only reason we are losing.

Pretty much exactly this.

 

[neilk]

Are we any younger than the Bulldogs? Not sure if anyone has these stat's at hand but WB certainly don't seem to be having any issues with their young list.

 

[NT.Thunder]

I know this sounds obvious, but we really have forgotten how to kick goals. Whilst we are bringing in new faces, apart from Moore we haven't unearthed any new consistent goal kickers and Moore's bag come from one game.

Crisp and Varcoe have 13 and 8 respectively from 17 games with the next best of the 2015 new faces Moore with 5 from one game.

We desperately need to unearth new options towards goal because when you look at Swan, Blair and White who make up part of the top 6 goal kickers for this season, these guys are probably not going to be part of any real premiership tilt...Swan hopefully, but he's getting on.

I still think we should be looking at bringing in notable goal kickers over the next 2 seasons.

 

[Royal Flash]

Didn't Pert say at the beginning of last year that we were expecting to win a flag in the next 3 years? So almost two seasons on and without making finals and now we're getting told we'll need to wait another 3 years.

Yeah..nah not buying that claptrap anymore. We don't know if any of the "young men" Buckley is pinning his hopes on are even going to be good let alone the nucleus of our next premiership. This smacks of goal post shifting in the hopes of landing another contract extension for mine.

I well recall the scorn heaped on Richmond and Terry Wallace when he gilded the lily after losses and constantly set the Tigers premiership window back to the distant future using obscure stats and coach/speak to make himself sound more authoritative and give the impression of working to a timeframe. The end result was a big pile of empty promises and s**t results that set the club back years. I hope we aren't being led down the same path.

 

[Batty123]

There's a few issues IMO. We still have some glaring list gaps - gaps that maybe an 8-3 record covered up. It'll take some time to address these through the draft, free agency and trades but on Saturday more than a quarter of our side wasn't on our list last year (Crisp, Varcoe, Greenwood, Moore, Maynard and De Goey) so we are improving our list each year and this needs to continue. Other posters have correctly mentioned the belief/confidence and mentality components so I won't repeat their thoughts. For mine the other piece is fatigue - we've come off progressively bigger pre-seasons and we play a high demand game style. I thought it was telling on Saturday that the only blokes who really looked capable of handling the game were Swan, Pendles, Brown, Sidebottom, Varcoe - all guys who have done 6-7+ pre-seasons.

Premierships take time - whether it is Buckley or someone else - we are still assembling the pieces of the puzzle and won't know what the picture looks like for another 18-24 months

 

[mattys123]

Are we any younger than the Bulldogs? Not sure if anyone has these stat's at hand but WB certainly don't seem to be having any issues with their young list.

On the day we played them they were, on average a few days older then us. (not much difference really).

We fielded an older team that day though then we did against the Eagles and Dees.

 

[legendstatus]

Nothing to do with age, its games played...lets all get this right.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

“Collingwood is a very good football side, but when you start to lose, it becomes a bit of a habit. Not only does it become a habit, you start to doubt yourself" [said Malthouse].

Oh my God! He said the thing, he said the thing!

 

[1892]

Malthouse said it best later in the article when he said we were down on confidence. Form, goal kicking and winning all come down to confidence. Malthouse is right in a way about youth being an excuse, it's the way the club structured the list and something that can't be changed during the season, but it's also a reason why we've been up and down. Young sides are more susceptible to shifts in momentum/confidence, we've seen it during games with an inability to stop opposition streaks of goals and now we're seeing it with the inability to close out and win close matches.

It seems silly to say this, but had we got over the line at least once vs Freo, Hawthorn or Port I reckon we would have been more up and about and likely won a few other matches too.

 

[TradeDraft]

So taking Pot Shots at Bucks and the Club.

No Surprise by MM.

Though makes a Good Point that Confidence at the Moment is Shot and Doubt has Crept in

 

[Premier Pies]

So taking Pot Shots at Bucks and the Club.

No Surprise by MM.

Though makes a Good Point that Confidence at the Moment is Shot and Doubt has Crept in

Sorry mate but I think you're off the mark with your comments about Mick.

I don't think Mick is taking pot shots at the club at all. I think he makes some excellent points and is merely giving his opinion, which he was probably asked for anyway.

 

[SpongePie]

So taking Pot Shots at Bucks and the Club.

No Surprise by MM.

Though makes a Good Point that Confidence at the Moment is Shot and Doubt has Crept in

Incorrect. Hate MM all you want, but he isnt wrong in this respect, nor is he taking a pot shot. True is not pot shots.

 

[Brad Goodman]

There's definitely an element of letdown when you put in such a good effort multiple times against good teams and come up short everytime.

The thing I worry about is will the list even be any better in three years than it is now? Pendlebury, Swan and Cloke will all be over the hill by then.

 

[TradeDraft]

I know this sounds obvious, but we really have forgotten how to kick goals. Whilst we are bringing in new faces, apart from Moore we haven't unearthed any new consistent goal kickers and Moore's bag come from one game.

Crisp and Varcoe have 13 and 8 respectively from 17 games with the next best of the 2015 new faces Moore with 5 from one game.

We desperately need to unearth new options towards goal because when you look at Swan, Blair and White who make up part of the top 6 goal kickers for this season, these guys are probably not going to be part of any real premiership tilt...Swan hopefully, but he's getting on.

I still think we should be looking at bringing in notable goal kickers over the next 2 seasons.

Agree - We have next to no Forwards on the List.

With Moore in the AFL now. You have White and Gault in the VFL and they won’t be at the Club Much Longer. Gault gone at seasons end White might get another Year. Reid is Injury Prone.

Most of the VFL Forwards are from the VFL List

 

[Markfs]

It was so good to hear his clear minded thinking.... so refreshing. He went directly to the problem - Buckley. And the solution is available too and displaying his wisdom on SEN...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

We had a shitload of losses under Mick against teams that should have been outclassed but beat us with pressure; hell in 2010 we drew with Melbourne at the MCG and probably should have lost. I don't think Mick is any sort of psychological guru when it comes to being in a rut and beating a team you really should beat.

 

[DWil6]

Kevin Bartlett?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Vicky Park]

Oh my God! He said the thing, he said the thing!

Yes, but he didn't describe us as a 'very, very, very good side' so we are still falling short.

There is no doubt an issue with the impact of a string of losses on a young side, although one or two good wins would help to reinstate confidence.

Separately, but related, will be the impact of Hawthorn's loss to Richmond. Make no mistake (as MM would say), that loss will stay with them and start to undermine their confidence. They were absolutely whacked by the tigers.

 

[Markfs]

We had a shitload of losses under Mick against teams that should have been outclassed but beat us with pressure; hell in 2010 we drew with Melbourne at the MCG and probably should have lost. I don't think Mick is any sort of psychological guru when it comes to being in a rut and beating a team you really should beat.

I think his message was clear on SEN and that message was that he would be doing a better job than buckley at the Pies...... and mick should know

 

[Maggie5]

Incorrect. Hate MM all you want, but he isnt wrong in this respect, nor is he taking a pot shot. True is not pot shots.

It is however interesting that he makes these comments that contradicts part of what Buckley has stated after the Melbourne game.

 

[Kappa]

The boys need to watch some tapes of our games earlier in the season

Get back some confidence and belief.