Formula One in 2016

[Gak Attack]

They bitched about the regulations. They didn't bitch about their engine partners. Completely different. They weren't harming the reputation of an organisation they were entirely dependent on.

In any other situation wouldn't the customer complain? Using my work as an example, we have our computers supplied in a deal with one company, if they continuely failed, weren't up to the competition etc. we would be complaining to them, then if nothing changed terminating the deal and probably pointing out to others to avoid them. Not sure why Red Bull shouldn't as a customer have a right to complain, they are paying after all.

 

[Smeg Head]

It'll definitely hurt the sport. But RBR got themselves into this situation. They had a contract with an engine provider, they ruined it. It is entirely their fault. Dietrich came out swinging saying he'd pull out if he couldn't get a competitive engine, but then when he had a chance with Mercedes, HE ruined it.

Well we don't know what Renualt were saying/promising behind closed doors because that engine package has been a dud. An actual two horse race in terms of engines is boring. I think Bernie will try and get something done, he would be well aware the amount of money that will leave with Red Bull.

 

[ManWithNoName]

In any other situation wouldn't the customer complain? Using my work as an example, we have our computers supplied in a deal with one company, if they continuely failed, weren't up to the competition etc. we would be complaining to them, then if nothing changed terminating the deal and probably pointing out to others to avoid them. Not sure why Red Bull shouldn't as a customer have a right to complain, they are paying after all.

Complaining publicly the way they did as something else though. And as often as they did.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Well we don't know what Renualt were saying/promising behind closed doors because that engine package has been a dud. An actual two horse race in terms of engines is boring. I think Bernie will try and get something done, he would be well aware the amount of money that will leave with Red Bull.

The only option for them now is Renault.

 

[Smeg Head]

Oh and I think they well more circumspect with Renault last year, but they have bloody well gone backwards this year. Its not like RB would be even slightly competitive next year with them, even B spec Ferrari engines would go better (not for their image mind you) so they were kind of boned either way.

 

[Smeg Head]

The only option for them now is Renault.

Well thats seems like the only probable option.

Ferrari or Mercs could change their mind. They could pull out, they could even go crazy and try build their own in a couple of months. I don't see how they can stay with Renault as a 'B' team if the Lotus buyout goes ahead either way.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Well thats seems like the only probable option.

Ferrari or Mercs could change their mind. They could pull out, they could even go crazy and try build their own in a couple of months. I don't see how they can stay with Renault as a 'B' team if the Lotus buyout goes ahead either way.

Merc are already supplying 4 teams next year. 5 would be unrealistic.

Absolutely no chance they build their own. Simply isn't the time. Takes ~2 years.

You forget they won the Championship whilst racing against Renault.

 

[Smeg Head]

Merc are already supplying 4 teams next year. 5 would be unrealistic.

Absolutely no chance they build their own. Simply isn't the time. Takes ~2 years.

You forget they won the Championship whilst racing against Renault.

I kind of think they will bail now, if they can find a buyer for the team they will cut and run. Especially as Newey becomes less involved with the design.

 

[Gak Attack]

Complaining publicly the way they did as something else though. And as often as they did.

As Smeg Head said though, we don't know how much behind doors was happening before then, if Renault were making promises they weren't keeping RB have a right to take shots. I would agree with you if Red Bull came straight out attacking Renault but we will probably know for sure what has already happened.

If they do stay in it should go back different engines in their two teams, if one supplier goes to s**t at least can throw their money at the other team.

 

[ManWithNoName]

That is absurdly impressive

 

[Simple Jack]

That is absurdly impressive

Dafuq?

Did not at all see that coming.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Dafuq?

Did not at all see that coming.

Whoops. Wrong thread.

 

[Smeg Head]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/...the-possible-outcomes-for-f1s-unsettled-team/

Good run through of some of the options. That 'Red Bull World Series Cricket Formula Racing' would really set the cat among Bernie.

 

[Team DJ]

Chances that Red Bull go on a seasons hiatus and return with VW/Audi?

 

[Sven]

Chances that Red Bull go on a seasons hiatus and return with VW/Audi?

Even though they have considerable LMP1 experience, I doubt whether the VW/Audi engine would be ready in 12 months time. As a result, Red Bull are looking for a two year engine deal IMO.

 

[Smeg Head]

Chances that Red Bull go on a seasons hiatus and return with VW/Audi?

No, the emissions scandal has rocked the hell out of VW. Don't see them committing to spending up big on something like this now, plus head at the top could be rolling.

 

[Sven]

The FIA has chucked a spanner into the works with new rules that ban the use of old spec engines in Formula 1. The new rules close the loop-hole on in season development (ala 2015) and insist that all tokens are used by Feb 28 and that all cars use that engine during the season. There will have to be unanimous agreement of all competitors to change the rule.

The FIA has released new regulations that stipulate manufacturers cannot offer old-spec engines to customers, but Autosport understands this stance is likely to change.
Under the new rules, article 23.5 of the 2016 sporting regulations reads: "Only power units which are identical to the power unit that has been homologated by the FIA in accordance with Appendix 4 of these regulations may be used at an Event during the 2016- 2020 Championship seasons."
This would appear to rule out manufacturers offering different specifications to customers.
However, at meeting of the technical directors in August, all were in favour of a proposal to allow the use of older-spec engines, subject to approval by the FIA on a case-by-case basis.
Article 1.2 reads: "These sporting regulations were published on 30 September 2015 and may only be changed after this date with the unanimous agreement of all competitors entered in the 2016 Championship, save for changes made by the FIA for safety reasons which may come into effect without notice or delay."
Year-old engine supplies will be discussed at the next F1 Commission meeting, which is anticipated to be within the coming weeks.
Should the proposal gain Commission backing, it will be put on the agenda at December's World Motor Sport Council meeting for ratification.

 

[Sven]

No, the emissions scandal has rocked the hell out of VW. Don't see them committing to spending up big on something like this now, plus head at the top could be rolling.

The emissions scandal is a diesel engine problem and VW showing they can build a competitive Formula 1 petrol engine would be a favourable step for them IMO.

 

[ManWithNoName]

The emissions scandal is a diesel engine problem and VW showing they can build a competitive Formula 1 petrol engine would be a favourable step for them IMO.

They're facing enormous fines. Can't see them spending the money on F1 at the minute. Especially given the F1 favourable CEO is now gone.

 

[Gak Attack]

If Red Bull do form their own series I hope its with bigger engines and more full on racing, given their ability you can imagine they will make them a lot quicker than a f1 car and force f1 into changes.

 

[Simple Jack]

If RB form their own series one thing is for sure. The internet presence will be significantly improved. DM doesn't think the whole thing is a 'fad'.

 

[Sven]

Gunther Steiner has given the strongest hint yet that Haas will complete its first F1 driver lineup with Esteban Gutierrez.
The new American team has already signed up Lotus' Romain Grosjean for 2016, and hinted strongly that his teammate will be a Ferrari-linked test driver. The two Ferrari-clad candidates are Frenchman Jean-Eric Vergne and Mexican Esteban Gutierrez.
But there is speculation the only hold-up in announcing 24-year-old Gutierrez is the finalisation of sponsor agreements with his related Mexican backers.
Asked by Sports Business Daily if signing a Ferrari-linked North American would be good for the team, boss Steiner answered: "It would be good for the sport to have a driver from North America."
He denied, however, that Haas is obviously a de-facto Ferrari 'B team', given the openly strong links with the Maranello marque.
"We are not a Ferrari B team," Steiner insisted. "We stand on our own two feet, but we work closely with a very good and experienced technical partner in Ferrari."

 

[Sven]

The FIA has chucked a spanner into the works with new rules that ban the use of old spec engines in Formula 1. The new rules close the loop-hole on in season development (ala 2015) and insist that all tokens are used by Feb 28 and that all cars use that engine during the season. There will have to be unanimous agreement of all competitors to change the rule.

The new rules from the FIA didn't last very long....

Formula 1's engine manufacturers and the FIA have agreed to allow in-season development for 2016, Autosport has learned.
Under the present regulations the amount of tokens available for development was due to decrease from the 32 available this year to 25 for next season.
The systems were set for homologation by the end of February, while the FIA was also due to impose a block on teams using a year-old spec of engine.
Following a meeting in Geneva involving the heads of Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda, along with senior representatives from the FIA - including president Jean Todt - unanimously agreed not to tighten the regulations.
The amount of tokens available will remain at 32, with the areas that were due to be blocked off for development - upper/lower crankcase, valve drive, part of the crankshaft, air-valve system and ancillaries drive - remaining open.
This decision is crucial for the likes of Honda and Renault given the struggles they have faced.
It means neither has to rush to develop its engine over the next four and a half months, and they will now be able to work on future problems during the season, rather than being unable to play catch up.
The aim of the Geneva meeting was to ascertain a more level playing field for the four power unit manufacturers for 2016, but also the longer term.
Todt is understood to have played a pro-active role in what has been described as highly positive and constructive proceedings.
The rule regarding manufacturers no longer being able to supply older engines, as Manor has done this year with a 2014 system supplied by Ferrari, has also been dropped, as predicted by Autosport.
This will allow Toro Rosso to run a 2015-spec Ferrari engine for next season, reviving the 2007-2013 partnership.
All the proposals have to be agreed upon by the F1 Commission, which are expected to be a formality, before being rubber stamped by the World Motor Sport Council at its final meeting of the year in early December.

To summarise:

a. The number of development tokens remains at 32, instead of reducing to 25
b. The areas of the engine that were frozen (ie can't be changed) are now unfrozen
c. In-season development is back (ie the Feb 28 homologation date is gone)
d. Old engines can still be supplied to teams

 

[ManWithNoName]

Christ Jean Todt is useless.

 

[Sven]

Christ Jean Todt is useless.

Sometimes I wonder if the FIA actually do anything.