Strategy Forward Line Potential

[Eddie1994]

He can't play in defence anymore though. Too slow and too many mistakes. We found that out the hard way in 2013.

Form is temporary, Class is permanent. If Kelly plays there, Bartel can. He just needs to find his form again, get some confidence.

 

[Partridge]

Form is temporary, Class is permanent. If Kelly plays there, Bartel can. He just needs to find his form again, get some confidence.

We'll have to politely disagree. Class is permanent as long as the body is still capable. I think both are in decline and neither are up to playing as defenders now.

No one lasts forever.

 

[Eddie1994]

We'll have to politely disagree. Class is permanent as long as the body is still capable. I think both are in decline and neither are up to playing as defenders now.

No one lasts forever.

I may be being a bit too optimistic on second thought, (re watching 2013 highlights/lowlights), however Bartel won't feature as a permanent forward, I just can't see it, with the need to play young guys, however he still gets a spot each week. Maybe on a wing?

 

[Partridge]

I may be being a bit too optimistic on second thought, (re watching 2013 highlights/lowlights), however Bartel won't feature as a permanent forward, I just can't see it, with the need to play young guys, however he still gets a spot each week. Maybe on a wing?

I would say the logical conclusion is if they can't play midfield, and can't play in defence, and can't play up forward, then there's no spot for them.

 

[ChookNorris]

I dont mind the idea of Walker as a backman, can read the play, and loves a good contest, will take a lot of work to make the transition, but is the most hopeful at the moment. I do love Walker, gives his all every time he walks onto the field, but he may find it hard to break in, the addition of Stanley just reinforces that to me. In all honesty, i think all of Walker's eggs should be thrown into the defender basket, especially while he still has Lonergan, Enright and Rivers to learn from. Don't disagree with you, just think it comes down to numbers.

Only issue with walker as a backman is his tendency to overcommit and end up taking himself out of the contest when it doesn't work.

 

[Eddie1994]

Only issue with walker as a backman is his tendency to overcommit and end up taking himself out of the contest when it doesn't work.

Hence the need to learn under the greats we have now, hone the skills, if that is the only issue, then he shouldn't be too hard to transition.

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

Form is temporary, Class is permanent. If Kelly plays there, Bartel can. He just needs to find his form again, get some confidence.

To be honest, I don't really want either of them to play predominantly in defence in 2015 - maybe a spell here and there, but I'd rather see Bews given a decent run at the back pocket position.

I think Kelly should be moved back to the midfield - his contested work and tackling in close could be very beneficial. If his body isn't up to it, then I'm afraid I would have him playing quite a bit of VFL footy. Bartel is fortunate in that he has a few more strings to his bow (i.e. strength overhead, accurate shot for goal) that allow him to be effective as a forward, whereas I'm not so sure that Kelly would be great in the forward line.

 

[Partridge]

Only issue with walker as a backman is his tendency to overcommit and end up taking himself out of the contest when it doesn't work.

My only issue is he's rarely played there at VFL level, never at senior level, and to me is far more likely as a forward.

 

[Bobby_]

play Jimmy as the super sub. We're atrocious in the third quarters and he'd give us an immediate spark that final 10 mins while also getting valuable match time into someone who'd occupy his position like Kersten or Walker.

 

[Bobby_]

also, there's no way Vardy won't be pushing his way into the line up early in the season. He's a massive body who is very quick and super agile. Once he gets the tank upto full speed, he'll be slotting bags of 4's & 5's in the magoo's on weekly basis before reemerging back into the seniors.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I wouldn't be writing off Bartel. In the Qualifying Final he was amazing in a team getting thumped. Nothing there suggested he was slowing down.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I wouldn't be writing off Bartel. In the Qualifying Final he was amazing in a team getting thumped. Nothing there suggested he was slowing down.

I agree. IIRC a game in 2014 where Scott put Bartel & Kelly back in the centre and they were great. I think Jimmy will resume his swing role next year, basically filling gaps where required. If anyone, it's Kelly who needs to be taken out of defence because he sucked there last year IMHO.

 

[Partridge]

I agree. IIRC a game in 2014 where Scott put Bartel & Kelly back in the centre and they were great. I think Jimmy will resume his swing role next year, basically filling gaps where required. If anyone, it's Kelly who needs to be taken out of defence because he sucked their last year IMHO.

If it's the game I'm thinking about, it was versus North at Geelong. I'm not sure either can do it week after week though.

 

[Seeds]

another McCarthy overrating thread.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I would say the logical conclusion is if they can't play midfield, and can't play in defence, and can't play up forward, then there's no spot for them.

The logic is OK, pity about the premises.

 

[Partridge]

The logic is OK, pity about the premises.

Do you see both Kelly and Bartel playing midfield regularly next year Fred?

 

[Seeds]

Bartel will be in the forward line next year.r

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

If it's the game I'm thinking about, it was versus North at Geelong. I'm not sure either can do it week after week though.

agreed, we need the next generation to really stand up next year. Although I feel I have been saying that for a few years now.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Do you see both Kelly and Bartel playing midfield regularly next year Fred?

No, they both had pretty good years respectively in the back and forward lines, why move them?

 

[Partridge]

No, they both had pretty good years respectively in the back and forward lines, why move them?

It's a matter of philosophy. Bartel I would agree totally is best suited now to being a thorough nuisance up forward. Anywhere over 20 goals from him in 2015 I'll take immediately. Kelly worries me far more, I think he's in big trouble. I would not have him in the backline ahead of Bews, and I think he's slowed down far too much now to play midfield. We'll see.

 

[Turbocat]

Form is temporary, Class is permanent. If Kelly plays there, Bartel can. He just needs to find his form again, get some confidence.

I feel , this is a flawed saying.

What is more true is no one owns talent , they just lease it for a while .... otherwise no one would ever retire.

At his best Bartel skill set is always better offensively compare to Kelly who is better at defensive end , both showed that times in 2014 , their time left is finite,yet overall probably worth another year. When we look at our goal kickers from 2014 , there is only one end that Bartel will be playing.

On the forward line's potency , the first thing we need to assess is the chance they are given. If we do not improve the quality of inbound ball we will still struggle.

On your list its fair but I feel it show our weakness , plenty of height and no one to crumb. Even Linc has the ingrained approach of flying for the ball. We need someone like Lang or Bews or whoever to play the roll at the feet of that height. A real goal sneak and Im not sure we have one. So if Daniel or someone like that is there at 60 , come one down

 

[Lana]

I feel , this is a flawed saying.

What is more true is no one owns talent , they just lease it for a while .... otherwise no one would ever retire.

At his best Bartel skill set is always better offensively compare to Kelly who is better at defensive end , both showed that times in 2014 , their time left is finite,yet overall probably worth another year. When we look at our goal kickers from 2014 , there is only one end that Bartel will be playing.

On the forward line's potency , the first thing we need to assess is the chance they are given. If we do not improve the quality of inbound ball we will still struggle.

On your list its fair but I feel it show our weakness , plenty of height and no one to crumb. Even Linc has the ingrained approach of flying for the ball. We need someone like Lang or Bews or whoever to play the roll at the feet of that height. A real goal sneak and Im not sure we have one. So if Daniel or someone like that is there at 60 , come one down

I 100% agree with you on our forward line problems but I don't think that Bews, Lang or McCarthy are the solution, Unless we draft one this year( this type of player can often play from year one) the only player on our list who fits the mold is Motlop. Having a second key target that we actually pass to will help, the congestion at Hawkins' feet made it very difficult from us to get a crumbing goal. But if we don't fix our ruck issues we won't be able to change our forward structure. I miss the days when we won the centre clearances and could use fast ball movement which makes the forwards job so much easier.

 

[Whit3y]

Hence the need to learn under the greats we have now, hone the skills, if that is the only issue, then he shouldn't be too hard to transition.

why couldnt laidler learn under the greats, or did he?

 

[Turbocat]

I 100% agree with you on our forward line problems but I don't think that Bews, Lang or McCarthy are the solution, Unless we draft one this year( this type of player can often play from year one) the only player on our list who fits the mold is Motlop. Having a second key target that we actually pass to will help, the congestion at Hawkins' feet made it very difficult from us to get a crumbing goal. But if we don't fix our ruck issues we won't be able to change our forward structure. I miss the days when we won the centre clearances and could use fast ball movement which makes the forwards job so much easier.

Yep , me too. How much easier must it be to setup if you know we will win it.

We will have to disagree 10L on Motlop , to me he is not that FP type. Bews may not be either. Lang is clever and may be able to do the role but he will be better up the ground. Motlop , just think he is not bottom of the pack type like Christensen , and thats what we need. Daniel and Lonie are the two I think in this draft that I can think of.

 

[Lana]

Yep , me too. How much easier must it be to setup if you know we will win it.

We will have to disagree 10L on Motlop , to me he is not that FP type. Bews may not be either. Lang is clever and may be able to do the role but he will be better up the ground. Motlop , just think he is not bottom of the pack type like Christensen , and thats what we need. Daniel and Lonie are the two I think in this draft that I can think of.

I agree he isn't like Christensen or Byrnes back in the day who will fight for every scrap, he is a lot like how Varcoe was when he was a small forward, he has burst of pace and a bag of tricks which in my opinion is the most important ingredient in a small forward.

From all I have read about and seen of Daniel (his highlight clips and a half of a game in the U18 championships vs vic metro I think) he's more a midfielder than small forward. Reminds me of Stokes(as a midfielder) with less aerial ability.