Fraser on Q & A

[finders]

Good to see Malcolm Fraser get stuck into News Corp over its anti ALP/Gillard campaign and hie astute observation that Labor didnt sell itself very well even though they had a very good story to tell about the GFS.

Even though he is 80 he made a lot of sense esp about the constituional laws governing the forming of a new government.

 

[Subprime]

Did he have any advice for the Governor-General?

 

[Contra Mundum]

Did he have any advice for the Governor-General?

Yeh - bit rich for him to hold himself out as the paragon of following constitutional conventions!

 

[JimDocker]

I have no doubt that there are better historians on this site than me.

Didn't The Australian support Fraser to the hilt?

 

[western royboy]

At the time The Australian was not part of the News Ltd worldwide conglomerate. Comparing then and now is not apples and apples.

IMO Fraser was outstanding last night and that edition of Q&A should be made compulsory for every voter.

Fraser did what he had to do and used the mechanisms available to him to take power. His actions were ratified by a landslide election victory soon after. Gough had the power to get rid of Kerr beforehand and he didn't and that was his fatal mistake.

 

[Dry Rot]

Good to see Malcolm Fraser get stuck into News Corp over its anti ALP/Gillard campaign

Did he also get stuck into Fairfax over its anti Liberal/Abbott campaign?

 

[JimDocker]

At the time The Australian was not part of the News Ltd worldwide conglomerate. Comparing then and now is not apples and apples.

IMO Fraser was outstanding last night and that edition of Q&A should be made compulsory for every voter.

Fraser did what he had to do and used the mechanisms available to him to take power. His actions were ratified by a landslide election victory soon after. Gough had the power to get rid of Kerr beforehand and he didn't and that was his fatal mistake.

OK, fair call. I actually quite like Malcolm, but still do not agree that blocking supply was the right thing to do.

 

[PottSie2]

Did he also get stuck into Fairfax over its anti Liberal/Abbott campaign?

Or the promised impartiality of 'Our ABC' and its affiliates ?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

If any Liberal spokesperson actually tries to accuse the ABC of being biased against them, I'll piss myself laughing...

 

[StFly]

IMO Fraser was outstanding last night and that edition of Q&A should be made compulsory for every voter.

I quite liked that edition as well outside of the 2 on the left, Chris seemed to rather enjoy just shooting down things by highlighting singular examples whereas most others were trying to be more "general" in the approach and Christine reminded me of Rachel Dratch from SNL to take her seriously, especially when she was attempting to throw in jokes.

Surprise for me was Jess Rudd, figured she'd have towed the ALP line rather heavily all things considering, but seems to handle herself quite well, and Turnbull.. err Fraser was brilliant as usual.

 

[bombermick]

I really liked Jessica Rudd. Surprisingly easy on the eye and gave some really thoughtful answers. Great to see she wasn't a mouthpiece for her dad or the Labor party. Christine Wallace still annoys me, while the English professor bored me to tears. Why do they always get Christine Wallace on? I feel like killing my computer screen whenever I see her!

 

[medusala]

If any Liberal spokesperson actually tries to accuse the ABC of being biased against them, I'll piss myself laughing...

How odd because that is exactly the reaction I would think of most people when you woefully attempt to claim ABC bias in favour of the Libs by producing a paper written by an ALP MP.

Still you keep flogging the same dead, maggot infested horse.

Fraser doesnt like the Oz because they tear him to shreds over Mugabe and his economic policies.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

There was no anti-LNP campaign by Fairfax in this election, and anyone who claims this to be so is deluded.

LNP aligned figures and pundits Devine, Henderson, Sheehan, and Costello all got regular space in the commentary pages, as they always do. In fact, the SMH has increasingly made a point of splitting its political commentary down the middle, to assure representantion for both parties. Center and Center Left Fairfax columnists Hartcher, Carney, Grattan and Marr wrote critical pieces on BOTH Gillard and Abbott.

The same cannot be said of the Australian, which no longer makes any attempt to hide its bias or employ contributors from the Left. And which refused throughout the election to criticise Abbott or the LNP in any way whatsoever.

Fraser's criticism of The Australian were entirely accurate and very timely.

Anyone who believes that Fairfax engages in the type of barracking favoured by the Australian has either not read its papers for close to a decade, did not read its papers through the election, or is willfully ignorant.

 

[medusala]

The same cannot be said of the Australian, which no longer makes any attempt to hide its bias or employ contributors from the Left. And which refused throughout the election to criticise Abbott or the LNP in any way whatsoever.

Who is deluded? Fairfax followed on The Oz's coat tails re criticism of pink batt's and then the BER debacle. There was also criticism by Davidson and others re the NBN and its costings.

To say the Oz only employs right wing hacks is nonsense. People like Lenore Taylor (recently left), Megalogenis, Noel Pearson, Steketee, Van Onselen etc are hardly Lib fanbois. Phil Adams would be glad to know is he know a right winger.

The Oz has always been a paper that supports economic rationalism. The ALP under Rudd and Gillard has veered well away from that.

Accordingly they got a kicking. That is not bias, that is what one expects of a newspaper that is consistent in its editorial approach.

Of course the ABC and Fairfax don't lean the other way...

 

[Nankervis brothers]

^^^^meds

Taylor is no longer with the paper; Pearson is basically a Coalition member and 'matey' with many in the LNP; Adams contribution has been reduced to the Weekend magazine (lite 'look at the leftie' entertainment); Van Onselen is a centrist who co-authored a book on the Howard years in which much of his legacy was reviewed positively; Steketee's articles were few are far between during the election, indeed, during the last year; leaving Megalogenis as the 'token' throughout the election campaign.

To suggest Rudd and Gillard veered away from the economic position their own party created in the eighties is, frankly, farcical.

Fact is The Australian barracked big time throughout this election and in the months leading up to it.

And they are barracking right now, with Kelly and Shanahan's ed/ops trashing our constitution by dumping on the independents and the process we find ourselves in, and blatantly ignoring the divisions that are clear for all to see in the LNP at the moment (they would not turn such a blind eye were it the ALP looking so undisciplined).

With regard the ABC - you once compared it to Fox, so i am afraid on that issue i cannot take your opinion seriously.

Again, Fraser's comments on The Australian were 100% correct.

 

[medusala]

To suggest Rudd and Gillard veered away from the economic position their own party created in the eighties is, frankly, farcical.

You must be kidding. Did you not read the essay Kev wrote attacking neo liberalism and the policies of the last 20 odd years?

See the other thread I started today where Swannie hasnt ruled out increasing tariffs due to green and Katter pressure.

Fact is The Australian barracked big time throughout this election and in the months leading up to it.

Of course they did. The paper stands for liberal economics. When Kev stood up and turned his back on that and said he was now (as opposed to pre the election) a social democrate he was asking for the Oz to give him a good kicking.

With regard the ABC - you once compared it to Fox, so i am afraid on that issue i cannot take your opinion seriously.

Fox is not paid for by taxpayers. Australians are forced to pay for ABC propaganda.

Choice, such a despicable thing for the latte sippers.

 

[Nankervis brothers]

^^^Meds

Differences between contemporary Labor and the LNP on economic philosophy are basically non-existent. The reason Kev fell out with The Australian has nothing to do with economics. It is becuase he belittled the paper over its reporting of Mole Gretch and his fake emails. From that moment on the ALP had Murdoch off-side.

Unlike Fox, there are various review mechanisms and standards in place that the ABC must adhere to. Beyond that, comparing the ABC's and Fox's delivery of news content is just ridiculous and warrants no serious discussion.

FWIW I drink ristretto, the occasional macchiato, and black iced coffee if the temperature breaks 40 C.

 

[medusala]

Differences between contemporary Labor and the LNP on economic philosophy are basically non-existent.

The Libs are anti NBN, ETS and arent Keynesian fanbois (though probably a bit rich to say Swannie is given Ken just tells him what to do). Fair bit of difference there I would have thought.

The reason Kev fell out with The Australian has nothing to do with economics.

Kev made an utter fool of himself over the essay he wrote. He got a kicking in the Oz over that and it has been referred to ever since.

Thoroughly deserved.

I partly suspect it also has to do with the UK. The Times went very easy on Tony Blair/ Brown for a long time. Extremely embarassing. I would have thought Rupert did not want to make the same mistake twice.

FWIW I drink ristretto, the occasional macchiato, and black iced coffee if the temperature breaks 40 C.

Do you have ice in your white wine?

 

[Eagle87]

Do you have ice in your white wine?

very good! ....

 

[fairdinkum]

The Libs are anti NBN, ETS and arent Keynesian fanbois (though probably a bit rich to say Swannie is given Ken just tells him what to do). Fair bit of difference there I would have thought.

And what did The Australian have to say about Abbott's very hefty paid parental scheme?

Let's have a look:

Abbott's paid parental leave scheme is perfectly Liberal

Yes, Abbott's position on paid maternity leave has evolved. He has done a U-turn on the subject since he was in government. John Maynard Keynes said: "When the facts change, I change my mind, what do you do?" While the facts in favour of generous paid maternity leave haven't changed, Abbott has started to pay attention to them.

...Abbott's scheme makes possible a societal transforming goal worth upsetting sectional interests to achieve.

...Meanwhile, the union movement's response to Abbott's policy proves it is prepared to put its affiliation with Labor ahead of the interests of working families.

Would you believe that the above is from the keyboard of The Australian's contributing editor?

 

[medusala]

And what did The Australian have to say about Abbott's very hefty paid parental scheme?

That chap is no fan of Abbott he just liked that bit of policy. The paper in general was very anti the scheme.

 

[fairdinkum]

You say that The Australian had every right to 'get stuck into' the ALP this electoral cycle, and wasn't actually showing any bias in doing so, because the paper is neo-liberal/anti-big government/etc. I then point out to you that the paper's contributing editor supported Abbott's incredibly generous paid parental leave scheme - a scheme more generous than most any other in the world (far more generous than the ALP's offering) and one to be paid for by the nation's most profitable companies.

Will you not acknowledge the problem here?

As for van Onselen: not a fan of Abbott's, you say?

Abbott's crusade to woo women voters

It is ironic that Abbott, who has a strong wife and is the father of three daughters, should be forced to establish that he doesn't have a problem with women (which he doesn't, by the way).

The number of profile pieces of Abbott with his family that have adorned the pages of newspapers testifies to the attempts being made to combat the perception.

What few people outside the inner circle of politics realise is that for most of the time Abbott was a minister in the Howard government, his two most important staffers - his chief of staff and press secretary - were women. Both were absolutely loyal to Abbott and both rejoined his staff to help him through his early period as leader. Now he has a newchief of staff, again a woman.

At the interpersonal level, Abbott enjoys working with - and finds it easy to get along with - women. That is a non-issue.

Go on to read the rest of his defense of Abbott. Whilst I agree with a lot of what he says in this article, I find it hard to believe that van Onselen 'isnt a fan' of Abbott's.

 

[Chief]

This is why I haven't bought a newspaper in years. Except when they were giving away some wildlife DVDs.

"Political party X is just spinning everything, and here is my subjective and conveniently neat story about why I'm right..."

It's ridiculous that anyone attaches any significance to something printed in a newspaper.

 

[medusala]

Will you not acknowledge the problem here?

Not every person who writes for the Oz is a dry (Steketee is very wet for example). He is one of those. The overall tone is neo liberal though.

As for van Onselen: not a fan of Abbott's, you say?

Not really, particularly over refugees.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-a-second-chance/story-e6frgd0x-1225907997096

For all of the present government's incompetence, I just don't believe it deserves to be a oncer. And despite the good campaign Abbott has had, I don't believe the Liberals have learned the lessons of their defeat three years ago. For that reason I believe Gillard should become an elected prime minister and be judged critically on the job she does after that, with no more second chances.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...om-on-boatpeople/story-e6frg6zo-1225890492463

Describing poor, desperate asylum-seekers in unseaworthy fishing boats as an armed naval fleet is a bit of a stretch. But not for Abbott, who has suggested we have "lost control of our borders", even though no such thing has happened.Describing poor, desperate asylum-seekers in unseaworthy fishing boats as an armed naval fleet is a bit of a stretch. But not for Abbott, who has suggested we have "lost control of our borders", even though no such thing has happened.

 

[fairdinkum]

Yep, van Onselen gave his very qualified approval for the electorate to do as the polls (and most pundits) suggested they would and retain the ALP. No surprises there. Recall that The Age refused to pick a winner in 2007.

As for the boatpeople issue, van Onselen has been critical of both sides, not just one. Hardly a personal bugbear against Abbott.

Truth is that your 'Its okay if The Oz trashes the ALP as it is a neoliberal paper' argument doesn't quite stack up when the contributing editor writes articles in support of Abbott and his big paid parental leave scheme.