Opinion Fyfe or Clarkson

[Saintly Viewed]

They actually kinda do. Much of that can be attributed to the coach. The coach creates an environment, the coach is who impacts the players the most emotionally. Clarkson has created an environment at Hawthorn that players are thriving in, which is creating success, which is in turn creating a Club outside players WANT to be in.

It's hard to argue our coach is doing the same. I don't see too many players scrambling to play for Collingwood for unders. Will that come in time? Perhaps, but given the number of players actively wanting to leave Collingwood over the last 4 years, I'm not holding my breath.

Don't get me wrong, the first few years Clarkson was at Hawthorn, outside players weren't falling over themselves to play for Hawthorn like they are now. But you know what? They also weren't falling over themselves to leave like they are at Collingwood over the last few years.

Respect your opinion
A bit of a stretch that people are falling over themselves to leave.
We Can all give examples to make our case, but we are like all clubs pretty much.

Eg Buddy leaves Hawthorn
Cloke stays at Collingwood

Some stay some go, just how it is. Nothing magic about it.

You are correct coaches can assist players becoming better at times, but often its the penny dropping and maturity. A good coach provides a good environmentbthats true.
The subtle suggestion you are perhaps making is that Nathan is not providing that.
Thats not what i hear, but you never can tell.

Remember the more clubs win the more things are rosey for the key players.
And players not getting games are still the most disgruntled of all, just the way it tends to be

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Jeff Kennett saying Clarko should be sacked doesn't mean "he was about to get sacked". You are re-writing history I think.

Is Hawthorn's Culture a winning one?.....Definite. Was it when Clarko took over?.....NO. If I could find an article I read with Clarko I would post it to prove my point.

Can you imagine if the Hawks had another $600,000 or $1,000,000 (equivalent today) to pay for players
That is the reason IMO Clarko is better than Leigh.......he has done it without assistance or a SUPER TEAM (Lions was the best I have witnessed in my time)

As for Bucks I will leave it for the other thread

Yes he gets credit, that he does.

So riddle me this?

Hawthorn without Hodge, Roughead but with Clarkson say do they win 3?

 

[Cory]

I'd throw the farm at Clarkson.

 

[CFC2010]

Yes he gets credit, that he does.

So riddle me this?

Hawthorn without Hodge, Roughead but with Clarkson say do they win 3?

Do they get to keep Buddy and Garlett becomes a star???? Sorry just being a smart arse
I don't deal in hypotheticals as no one wins that conversation

IMO he is the best coach ever his record proves that for me......imagine they chose Wallace like Dermie wanted at the time

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Do they get to keep Buddy and Garlett becomes a star???? Sorry just being a smart arse
I don't deal in hypotheticals as no one wins that conversation

IMO he is the best coach ever his record proves that for me......imagine they chose Wallace like Dermie wanted at the time

Would not be 4 flags

Bret coach ever? Now thats a huge stretch
McHale 8 flags!!! 17 GFs ! Wow
Norm Smith 6 flags wow!
Sorry those two way in front the numbers say that - doing it year in year out

 

[Matt_352]

Terry Wallace!

Nah he's to busy as the 'list manager'

 

[THATSGOLD]

Premierships are won by the whole football club. From the administration down. Quote: Mick Malthouse.

 

[Countrypie]

Its easy for me. Coaches are so overrated. One coach does not make a team. It is the entire club that wins a flag. Coach, assistants, players, officials, everybody has to be on the same page and then you need quality big time players like Hodge, (who for my money is the best player I've ever seen in terms of big game performance - better than Lethal or my other favorite Dermie - funny how Hawthorn identify and mould big time players - and they were doing it long before Clarkson came in board). Clarkson is a good coach but he ain't no messiah. Fyfe adds class grunt and X factor.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Its easy for me. Coaches are so overrated. One coach does not make a team. It is the entire club that wins a flag. Coach, assistants, players, officials, everybody has to be on the same page and then you need quality big time players like Hodge, (who for my money is the best player I've ever seen in terms of big game performance - better than Lethal or my other favorite Dermie - funny how Hawthorn identify and mould big time players - and they were doing it long before Clarkson came in board). Clarkson is a good coach but he ain't no messiah. Fyfe adds class grunt and X factor.

Interesting take.

The big time performers? Yes Hodge but Lethal well quite a bit better imo. He was so consistent and great. And kicked goals!
Wayne Carey as well.
And cough splutter but KB was a super finals player.
Nearly every final he was in best players, super star. Still painful on the radio though
Just as an aside but an obscure top finals player for us, though rarely mentioned, was craig starcevich.
He played well in finals, not like the aforesaid but still good.

 

[Heritier 09]

Clarko and Fyfe for seeds, Kenno and freeman.

 

[Countrypie]

Interesting take.

The big time performers? Yes Hodge but Lethal well quite a bit better imo. He was so consistent and great. And kicked goals!
Wayne Carey as well.
And cough splutter but KB was a super finals player.
Nearly every final he was in best players, super star. Still painful on the radio though
Just as an aside but an obscure top finals player for us, though rarely mentioned, was craig starcevich.
He played well in finals, not like the aforesaid but still good.

Agree with Starcevich - I was devastated when he went to Brisbane. Carey is an interesting one. Personally, I thought Dermie was better in Finals but either would've been handy in any of our losing GF sides. KB? yes he was painfully good -I've bitter memories of him kicking that goal in the 73 Prelim and 1980 is just a horror movie that Stephen King couldn't have scripted

 

[Robroy22]

Clarko: 4 premierships
Fyfe: Nil Premierships

I'll take the premiership route thanks...start with the coach, build the team.

 

[Pedro]

Clarkson for me. What he has done at Hawthorn has been amazing really. Fyfe could be replaced by any number of players. Clarko not so much

 

[DWil6]

For Clarkson to have won 4 gf's in his relatively limited coaching tenure is remarkable. Stacks up against all the greats. The coaches that have out coached him premiership wise, all had way longer in charge. In fact, of the coaches that have won 4, he has easily done it the quickest. Whether the coach makes the team or vice versa, Clarkson's record speaks volumes.

Jock McHale 8 in 38 years
Norm Smith 6 in 23 years
Frank Hughes 5 in 39 years
John Worrall 5 in 19 years
Alastair Clarkson 4 in 11 years
Ron Barassi 4 in 32 years
Dick Reynolds 4 in 22 years
Tom Hafey 4 in 23 years
Kevin Sheedy 4 in 33 years
Allan Jeans 4 in 32 years
David Parkin 4 in 24 years

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[suspect footskills]

Excellent choice but a simple and one sided answer all the same.
Clarko by the length of a Sav Rocca torp.

Fyfe would do nice things for our team and would probably have us around the mark when added to Pendles et al.
Add Clarko however and I'm fairly sure we could all rest easy as we enter old age knowing we'd seen a Black & White dynasty.

With the talent laden young group we have coming through it would be well within his abilities to deliver us a couple of flags back to back.
I don't think Hawthorn are the most talented list going around but he has them play to their strengths and has a knack of exploiting even small weaknesses in the opposition.
The last two GF's have been walkovers and both against very good opposition. West Coast may perhaps have suffered being overawed by the occasion but Sydney were a finals tested, hard outfit and they were dismantled in the same fashion.

I only concern is whether he'd be happy to work as 'senior assistant' to Bucks as although he'd be a massive (and all this is lala land hypothetical mind you) get
I'd hate to see Bucks shown the door once he'd helped put together this cracking young gun list he's assembled.

On a good day Fyfe could take teams apart single handedly for us.
Clarko could show our boys how to dismantle the entire comp.

 

[Temploar]

If we get Clarkson then there would be no Buckley Megathread

That wouldn't be very fun now, would it?

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'm going to be a contankerous old git and answer "neither" ...

Those of you old enough, cast your mind back to the last four time Premiership coach we head hunted. How did that turn out for us? It was probably the most heartbreaking period in the club's history.

For those too young to have been there, cast your mind back to the recent past when those sad fools over at Carlton thought they could buy success by throwing the chequebook at Mick Malthouse. And Chris Judd. And Denis Pagan. How did that turn out for them?

St Kilda did the same with Malcolm Blight, how did that turn out? Yeah, sometimes it does pay off, but more often than not it doesn't.

It'd be wrong for us to go out and buy a marquee name and then kick back and expect success.

That's one of the reasons why 1990 was glorious - we took a punt on a rookie coach and we got rewarded for our punt.

 

[MarkT2]

If you believe that, and i respect your opinion, i do have some real estate i need to offload.

As Leigh Matthews has said when asked about what he learnt in twenty years of coaching:
If you have the players you can coach, if you dont have the players you cant...

A BIG Fyfe for me.
If we had Fyfe today in our side, assuming fully fit, we'd go top 4

If we got Clarko we would be more chance of getting the players given that his strategy and keeping ours given thats his record.
Adding Fyfe would make us better but we still wouldn't have a top 4 list.
Getting Clarko would be bigger impetus.

 

[MarkT2]

Those of you old enough, cast your mind back to the last four time Premiership coach we head hunted. How did that turn out for us? It was probably the most heartbreaking period in the club's history.

Hafey took us from last to a drawn GF in 1977 and and then 3 straight GF's from 1979 to 1981. While he had his flaws and probably cost is the 1977 replay, he had an arrogant and muddling board that blocked the recruiting he wanted that most likely would have made the difference. Hafey should be a 2 time Collingwood premiership coach at least.

Clarko isn't the whole answer either. He is backed up by recruiting, development and coaching staff but he he also deserves credit for building that team and working with it as does the board.

 

[mike123]

I'm going to be a contankerous old git and answer "neither" ...

Those of you old enough, cast your mind back to the last four time Premiership coach we head hunted. How did that turn out for us? It was probably the most heartbreaking period in the club's history.

For those too young to have been there, cast your mind back to the recent past when those sad fools over at Carlton thought they could buy success by throwing the chequebook at Mick Malthouse. And Chris Judd. And Denis Pagan. How did that turn out for them?

St Kilda did the same with Malcolm Blight, how did that turn out? Yeah, sometimes it does pay off, but more often than not it doesn't.

It'd be wrong for us to go out and buy a marquee name and then kick and and expect success.

That's one of the reasons why 1990 was glorious - we took a punt on a rookie coach and we got rewarded for our punt.

I'm too young , can you explain what happened the last time a four time premiership coach was head hunted, if its too painful I'll understand.

But I don't agree with the Malthouse, he's much older than Clarkson and was past his use by date when he couldn't get us a premiership in 2011 with that list.

 

[MarkT2]

Just as an aside but an obscure top finals player for us, though rarely mentioned, was craig starcevich.

Agree on that one. Mind you he was no Billy Picken. He was the best finals player in our disspointing Hafey GF losing era.

 

[Krueger]

A gun coach who can build a list, get 110% out of the players and implement an effective game plan is a hell of a lot important than 1 great mid.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'm too young , can you explain what happened the last time a four time premiership coach was head hunted, if its too painful I'll understand.

As T2 said - Tommy Hafey

1977 Took us from woodenspooners to a drawn Grand Final - and we lost the replay to North Melbourne
1979 Took us to another Grand Final - which we lost to the arch rivals in Carlton
1980 Took us to another Grand Final - which we lost to Richmond (Their last Premiership - LOL)
1981 Took us to another Grand Final - which we lost to the arch rivals in Carlton again.

Painful

 

[Obese Arachnid]

A gun coach who can build a list, get 110% out of the players and implement an effective game plan is a hell of a lot important than 1 great mid.

What are you suggesting?

Some sort of Hird Ped program, cyborg technology, nano technology or stem cell combined with a 3D printer?

 

[mike123]

As T2 said - Tommy Hafey

1977 Took us from woodenspooners to a drawn Grand Final - and we lost the replay to North Melbourne
1979 Took us to another Grand Final - which we lost to the arch rivals in Carlton
1980 Took us to another Grand Final - which we lost to Richmond (Their last Premiership - LOL)
1981 Took us to another Grand Final - which we lost to the arch rivals in Carlton again.

Painful

I shouldn't have asked