No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome**

[Gunstall555]

Does anyone know the dates that Hawthorn are coming up to Maroochydore for their pre-season training camp? I have to be out that way for a few days next week and am hoping my visit clashes with theirs.

 

[arupist]

Sydney will have to get there first.

Yep. I hope they spiral out of contention at least for the duration of Franklin's contract.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Does anyone know the dates that Hawthorn are coming up to Maroochydore for their pre-season training camp? I have to be out that way for a few days next week and am hoping my visit clashes with theirs.

I think they might be up there this week and next week as that roughly coincides with when they usually have it. Nothing on the Hawks website today re training either so that makes me think they have headed north.

 

[Off The Couch]

This could send Jimmy the Injector over the edge

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl...says-latest-data/story-fnelctok-1227149047364

 

[Thaihawk]

This could send Jimmy the Injector over the edge

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/afl...says-latest-data/story-fnelctok-1227149047364

I won't say what it does for me!

 

[kenneje]

I've got a couple of Richmond fans that are outrageously confident about their chances next year.

So I decided to look through their best 22 for next year thread, and is it just me, or is this a dead average side?

Can't see it doing any damage in a finals series.

AFL Side End Of Season
B: Steve Morris David Astbury Dylan Grimes

HB: Bachar Houli Alex Rance Nathan Drummond

C: Reece Conca Nick Vlastuin Brandon Ellis

HF: Brett Deledio Ben Griffiths Dustin Martin

F: Ty Vickery Jack Riewoldt Sam Lloyd

R: Ivan Maric Trent Cotchin Anthony Miles

INT: Ben Lennon Shane Edwards Taylor Hunt Corey Ellis

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I get a little annoyed when I hear this argument. I think it's being overly pedantic just for the sake of political correctness.

Let's say someone someone discovered a new planet. They then find other lifeforms are on it. Do you then turn around and say "You didn't discover it, aliens were there already!"?

This terminology wasn't an issue 10 years ago, why is it now? Nothing has changed, the world has just gone PC mad. Making issues out of things that shouldn't be issues.

That would depend on if we then raped, murdered and destroyed that other life form and its culture, but congratulated ourselves for finding a planet, pretending that it was even lost to a civilization in the first place.

 

[Sixpence]

That would depend on if we then raped, murdered and destroyed that other life form and its culture, but congratulated ourselves for finding a planet, pretending that it was even lost to a civilization in the first place.

Not sure of your point Echols? The discovery status of something isn't dependent on what you do with it after.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not sure of your point Echols? The discovery status of something isn't dependent on what you do with it after.

Let's just say I get a little annoyed when people suggest that we shouldn't have to acknowledge the original people of this land.

They were set upon. Murdered. Raped. Treated like animals. For decades.

I think the least we can do is acknowledge that we didn't "find" or "discover" Australia, we simply moved in and recklessly made a home for ourselves.

 

[Sixpence]

Let's just say I get a little annoyed when people suggest that we shouldn't have to acknowledge the original people of this land.

They were set upon. Murdered. Raped. Treated like animals. For decades.

I think the least we can do is acknowledge that we didn't "find" or "discover" Australia, we simply moved in and recklessly made a home for ourselves.

Not arguing that the aboriginals were treated very poorly. Or that we shouldn't have to acknowledge it. You're absolutely right, we should acknowledge it. But I don't think that by using the term "discover" makes one oblivious to those facts. Nor does it suggest you're ok with what happened.

This was my point. I'm all for people standing up and acknowledging what happened in the past, but getting shirty over terminology is a bit much.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Not arguing that the aboriginals were treated very poorly. Or that we shouldn't have to acknowledge it. You're absolutely right, we should acknowledge it. But I don't think that by using the term "discover" makes one oblivious to those facts. Nor does it suggest you're ok with what happened.

This was my point. I'm all for people standing up and acknowledging what happened in the past, but getting shirty over terminology is a bit much.

Terminology is all we have, and it means a hell of a lot.

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

Let's just say I get a little annoyed when people suggest that we shouldn't have to acknowledge the original people of this land.

They were set upon. Murdered. Raped. Treated like animals. For decades.

I think the least we can do is acknowledge that we didn't "find" or "discover" Australia, we simply moved in and recklessly made a home for ourselves.

'We' didnt do anything. Unless you are 250 years old? Not all immigrants treated the indigenous this way so speak for yourself. Dont mistake my response as an argument that nothing happened.

 

[Brishawk]

'We' didnt do anything. Unless you are 250 years old? Not all immigrants treated the indigenous this way so speak for yourself. Dont mistake my response as an argument that nothing happened.

We as a nation inherit the sins of the past. It is a debt carried forward through each generation until paid in full.

 

[Great 2008]

Sorry Brishawk don't agree. No-one in my family had anything to do with the past atrocities and they have been paying taxes too multiple Governments for 50 years looking for a solution for years. Everyone is paying to help find a solution.

Just my 2 bobs. What happened to the Indigenous people of this land was appalling no doubt. However, if not for European settlement (and I am being facetiously flippant) they would be eating sushi or sauerkraut in all possibility now. My wife is indigenous but has not used it to shackle her to her past or stop her from being a beautiful successful woman who embraces her culture as well. She wishes a lot of her people would do the same.

Do you cling to your culture and dwell in the past or be proud of your culture and move forward? I don't know.

Food for thought. My brother worked in Warburton WA as an Indigenous youth worker. He received multiple Govt. grants to build a centre for the youth in the area. It was fantastic. Then one day the same youths stoned it to total disrepair. This was not a one off incident.

I have sat around the campfire listening to songs lamenting the arrival of the white man with my wife's family. (very uncomfortable for the very reason that I was not responsible for anything they were singing about). The fact is Australia is my home now too.

 

[Blaze Storm]

We as a nation inherit the sins of the past. It is a debt carried forward through each generation until paid in full.

I agree that as a nation, we must repay the debt of the British invasion to the indigenous people.

I, as a person, have no such debt. My entire family emigrated to Australia within the last 100 years (unless the rumours that one of my great-grandfathers was aboriginal are to be believed).

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

'We' didnt do anything. Unless you are 250 years old? Not all immigrants treated the indigenous this way so speak for yourself. Dont mistake my response as an argument that nothing happened.

'We' certainly did. As current day Australians were are reaping the rewards of how these people were treated when they were 'colonised'.

If you are happy to call Australia home, then you take on it's history.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sorry Brishawk don't agree. No-one in my family had anything to do with the past atrocities and they have been paying taxes too multiple Governments for 50 years looking for a solution for years. Everyone is paying to help find a solution.

As we should. We created this mess.

Just my 2 bobs. What happened to the Indigenous people of this land was appalling no doubt. However, if not for European settlement (and I am being facetiously flippant) they would be eating sushi or sauerkraut in all possibility now. My wife is indigenous but has not used it to shackle her to her past or stop her from being a beautiful successful woman who embraces her culture as well. She wishes a lot of her people would do the same.

That's a really odd statement to make, even flippantly. Almost like we did them a favour and they should be grateful, no matter the atrocities they've faced since.

Do you cling to your culture and dwell in the past or be proud of your culture and move forward? I don't know.

A little of both are required.

Food for thought. My brother worked in Warburton WA as an Indigenous youth worker. He received multiple Govt. grants to build a centre for the youth in the area. It was fantastic. Then one day the same youths stoned it to total disrepair. This was not a one off incident.

I had to escort a white guy(casual) from work last Friday who visible under the influence of drugs, not for the first time. We keep giving these white guys work, and they keep finding ways of making me sack them.

People s**t in the face of things that will ultimately benefit them all the time. We are an 'intelligent' form of life, yet, we are also quite stupid.

Aboriginal people were removed from their culture in a lot of areas, swept up and brought into the western world, then thrown back out of it because they didn't fit. So many of the issues that Aboriginals face these days is because they are caught between two worlds, and two cultures.

I have sat around the campfire listening to songs lamenting the arrival of the white man with my wife's family. (very uncomfortable for the very reason that I was not responsible for anything they were singing about). The fact is Australia is my home now too.

I have been in similar situations myself - as I have history with an Aboriginal partner.
No one said that looking back on history was suppose to be easy. Pretending that we don't have that history though, is wrong.

 

[arupist]

'We' certainly did. As current day Australians were are reaping the rewards of how these people were treated when they were 'colonised'.

If you are happy to call Australia home, then you take on it's history.

That's your view, Echols. I don't happen to share it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That's your view, Echols. I don't happen to share it.

Then by pure definition, you're being ignorant.

 

[mightynineteen]

That's your view, Echols. I don't happen to share it.

My parents are Greek immigrants, they obviously had nothing to do with the original invasion and colonisation.
However I still believe we owe much to the indigenous peoples and we should never forget just what they have been through. It was and is their country after all.

Greece was occupied by the Turks for 400 years, before they kicked them out and regained their country, unfortunately for the aborigines it won't happen for them.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Does anyone know the dates that Hawthorn are coming up to Maroochydore for their pre-season training camp? I have to be out that way for a few days next week and am hoping my visit clashes with theirs.

All I know is they leave on the 12th

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Food for thought. My brother worked in Warburton WA as an Indigenous youth worker. He received multiple Govt. grants to build a centre for the youth in the area. It was fantastic. Then one day the same youths stoned it to total disrepair. This was not a one off incident..

I worked in Alice Springs for a number of years and saw "camp" houses get torn apart for fire wood, to be burnt in the dry bed of the the Todd River for warmth. What we have to realise is that we have attempted to colonize, what are essentially, multiple groups of nomadic tribes. As strange as it is for us to see this behavior, it is even stranger to the people we are trying to change to suit our lifestyles and beliefs. They had no real concept of that big square box being their place to seek shelter.

...
Aboriginal people were removed from their culture in a lot of areas, swept up and brought into the western world, then thrown back out of it because they didn't fit. So many of the issues that Aboriginals face these days is because they are caught between two worlds, and two cultures.
...

Precisely, add to that the fact that the introduction of Alcohol, so recently, to a group that had no real exposure to it prior to 220 years ago and it is a recipe for the disaster we find ourselves in now.

Now, we could get into the "proceeds of crime" type discussions but I think that would get heavy, maybe for another thread. I agree with Echols on this, regardless of whether your ancestors were one of the few original perpetrators or not, the very foundation of the Australia we know now was built on some very disgraceful foundations, and NO, not all cultures did the same thing back then when they found new lands that were inhabited...

 

[Great 2008]

As we should. We created this mess.


That's a really odd statement to make, even flippantly. Almost like we did them a favour and they should be grateful, no matter the atrocities they've faced since.

.

You have misinterpreted my entire post then. The invaders are here to stay. Given recent history it may well have been someone else. Germans, Japanese whoever, if that is more politically correct for you.

I am tipping a that the current 'healing process' saying sorry, handing land back, acknowledging tribal ancestors at school assemblies or sporting events, throwing money at issues will be a topic on this thread along the same lines in 50 years time and not much will have changed.

I would like to hear a new solution with merit perhaps from someone who is inspirational and indigenous themselves.

 

[Gold Member]

FFS.

Who left the door open and let Adam Goodes into this thread???

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You have misinterpreted my entire post then. The invaders are here to stay. Given recent history it may well have been someone else. Germans, Japanese whoever, if that is more politically correct for you.

I am tipping a that the current 'healing process' saying sorry, handing land back, acknowledging tribal ancestors at school assemblies or sporting events, throwing money at issues will be a topic on this thread along the same lines in 50 years time and not much will have changed.

I would like to hear a new solution with merit perhaps from someone who is inspirational and indigenous themselves.

Not much will have change if people still don't give a *.

As a nation, we really don't give a s**t about what happens to Aboriginal people, or the lives they lead.

In the states, they riot when a black man is murdered by police, in Australia it's barely even reported.