Mega Thread Oh yeah ... did you know there are 17 other teams? - General AFL discussion #9 - Blues posters only

[passmark]

“People are being called racists who are clearly not racists and other people are being called left-wing, bleeding hearts sort of thing when all you’re doing is showing a bit of empathy.

“There’s an argument on all sides. We could discuss for the next three hours and not get to a conclusion and not get to half of all the threads that are in this.

“There is one big thread that we need to get to and that is to get on and move forward."

It may be seen as sitting on the fence but I agree with him. I do hope the boos stop but I think he's right.

Did he ask for the booing to stop?

 

[Jatz]

Did he ask for the booing to stop?

Yep. Also asked people not to throw eggs. That should be obvious but alas, this is the world we live in.

Another good article, this time by Ricciuto.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...goodes-must-stop/story-fnia3nmy-1227462182685

 

[chunkylover53]

Thought this sums it up really well.

http://www.dailylife.com.au/dl-peop...oing-apologists-on-the-weekly-20150730-gini5u

 

[GCNavyBlue]

AFL writing that Selwood from WC will join Geelong. First round compo to WC, WC to on trade pick for Lewis Jetta. The strong clubs grow stronger, we linger at the bottom n have to give up multiple picks for possible father sons. Wow.

 

[Windhover]

Be very careful twisting my words like that - you know all too well that I am not inferring that he is anyone's servant, property, slave or anything of the sort. The fact that you choose to create that inference is, frankly, quite disturbing.

Actually, I was very careful NOT to twist your words. You said that "we would be well served by him". I will give you one guess who "serves" us. Give up? No, not our "property, slave or anything of the sort". Our "servants" serve us. Public "servants" serve us. Goodes does NOT serve us. He entertains us. If one does not enjoy the entertainment amuse oneself elsewhere.

Do NOT entrap him in a servility to which he has not signed up.

The rest of your post - I agree with for the most part.

No you don't.

You're saying people should have interpreted his action differently, I'm saying he could have framed them differently. Both can be correct.

They might in certain circumstances both be correct. They are not correct in this circumstance IMO.
To say to Goodes "please frame your actions which are designed to shine a light on racism and aboriginal struggle in a way that is more comfortable for bigots" is to ask him to pander to those he would seek to confront and educate. Don't you see that?

In the Long-Monkhurst fracas the bigots argued hard that "what's said on the field should stay on the field". The bigots lost, big time. As a result indigenous participation has increased substantially, to the immense benefit of the game. Winmar was the first ever to play 200 games and now Goodes himself is not that far from 400 games. And Monkey is I understand now a mate of Long's and one of the biggest advocates for racial tolerance.

 

[ShanDog]

Think you are reading into a common turn of phrase too much Windy.

 

[Jatz]

AFL writing that Selwood from WC will join Geelong. First round compo to WC, WC to on trade pick for Lewis Jetta. The strong clubs grow stronger, we linger at the bottom n have to give up multiple picks for possible father sons. Wow.

This is why they should get rid of compo altogether.

Apart from that, those clubs are doing nothing wrong.

Would Lewis Jetta want to go to the club who's supporters he... well you know.

 

[Windhover]

Think you are reading into a common turn of phrase too much Windy.

The common turn of phrase is as follows: "I think it would serve you well to . . .". Do you get it? In this context the "service" is "self-service". No master servant relationship is involved.

That is NOT the turn of phrase adopted by Blue Balls. BB stated "we would be well served by him". It was central to BB's argument that Goodes has obligations to us. He (as servant) would serve us (as masters). BB may not have consciously thought he was entrapping Goodes into servility, but that was the central tenet of his argument. That's why he expressed himself the way he did.

That's why I am exposing the hidden values that inform BB's argument. Exposing hidden values is not "pedantic" and it si NOT "twisting his words". It is illuminating the BB POV which is central to understanding his argument.

Hopefully, when/if BB recognises that his POV puts servile obligations on Goodes (and I doubt he thought it did and is aghast to think that is what his argument entails) he will recognise his POV is untenable.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Telling an Indigenous person to effectively 'get back in their box' is indicative of a wider Indigenous issue.

Shades of Allan McAllister's ignorant statement all those years ago.

No pun intended.

 

[Blueboys11]

Yep. Also asked people not to throw eggs. That should be obvious but alas, this is the world we live in.

Another good article, this time by Ricciuto.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...goodes-must-stop/story-fnia3nmy-1227462182685

Amazing that Ricciuto is probably the first bloke to well and truly nail the issue. It's not the word being spread, it's the way it's been done

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Shades of Allan McAllister's ignorant statement all those years ago.

No pun intended.

I had to look that one up. I can't believe someone actually said that!

 

[ESKIE]

Pity indigenous issues wern't dealt with properly at the start, decades ago even would've helped

Complex

But lets just stop booing and support Adam at the moment

Eddie is a boof head

 

[LanceRomance]

Pity indigenous issues wern't dealt with properly at the start, decades ago even would've helped

Complex

But lets just stop booing and support Adam at the moment

Eddie is a boof head

Succesive governments have failed the indigenous people.

The real issues are too uncomfortable even for the pious left to deal with.

What is happening in the settlements is a national emergency but no one has the guts to put human rights ahead of political rights.

I know that LanceJr and Lance14 will have an enormous advantage over young kids born in the outback and it is not fair.

It is incumbent on me to ensure my boys know how lucky they are and to treat everyone decently.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The common turn of phrase is as follows: "I think it would serve you well to . . .". Do you get it? In this context the "service" is "self-service". No master servant relationship is involved.

That is NOT the turn of phrase adopted by Blue Balls. BB stated "we would be well served by him". It was central to BB's argument that Goodes has obligations to us. He (as servant) would serve us (as masters). BB may not have consciously thought he was entrapping Goodes into servility, but that was the central tenet of his argument. That's why he expressed himself the way he did.

That's why I am exposing the hidden values that inform BB's argument. Exposing hidden values is not "pedantic" and it si NOT "twisting his words". It is illuminating the BB POV which is central to understanding his argument.

Hopefully, when/if BB recognises that his POV puts servile obligations on Goodes (and I doubt he thought it did and is aghast to think that is what his argument entails) he will recognise his POV is untenable.

Holy crap you're ridiculous.

Does anyone else read my comments the way Windy has?

 

[ESKIE]

Succesive governments have failed the indigenous people.

The real issues are too uncomfortable even for the pious left to deal with.

What is happening in the settlements is a national emergency but no one has the guts to put human rights ahead of political rights.

Successive governments over generations deplorable

Lets support Adam at the moment,

 

[LanceRomance]

Successive governments over generations deplorable

Lets support Adam at the moment,

Adam Goodes has a larger role to play once he has retired.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Holy crap you're ridiculous.

Does anyone else read my comments the way Windy has?

I didn't.

 

[SBYM]

Holy crap you're ridiculous.

Does anyone else read my comments the way Windy has?

You did say 'he' as well as 'we'...

And I'm assuming that you meant well-served in terms of, to work towards/contribute to something...ie, it would be great if all of us could work towards yada yada yada...

At the same time, there is an argument to be had about the inherent relationships that abound between signifiers in our wonderful language.

Isn't semiotics just the best thing ever?!?!?!?!?

Roland Barthes approves of this discussion.

 

[The Coach]

The Carlton curse strikes again, Hawks beat us by $& gls last week and come out and get beaten.
Is this the Richmond that we used to beat first game every year?
They have clearly done a lot right and we have done a lot wrong

 

[chunkylover53]

The Carlton curse strikes again, Hawks beat us by $& gls last week and come out and get beaten.
Is this the Richmond that we used to beat first game every year?
They have clearly done a lot right and we have done a lot wrong

Backed their development, stuck by their coach and chipped away despite a bit of short-term pain. It's a thing good clubs do.

 

[The Coach]

Backed their development, stuck by their coach and chipped away despite a bit of short-term pain. It's a thing good clubs do.

I tend to think it is more a case of getting their development 'right' including improving older players

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I tend to think it is more a case of getting their development 'right' including improving older players

Edwards a prime example.

I often think we have players on our list who can improve out of sight with the right coaching and development.

 

[mediumsizered]

“People are being called racists who are clearly not racists and other people are being called left-wing, bleeding hearts sort of thing when all you’re doing is showing a bit of empathy.

“There’s an argument on all sides. We could discuss for the next three hours and not get to a conclusion and not get to half of all the threads that are in this.

“There is one big thread that we need to get to and that is to get on and move forward."

It may be seen as sitting on the fence but I agree with him. I do hope the boos stop but I think he's right.

I think the trick is to not be caught on what is perceived to be the wrong side of this debate, because then your opinion is considered to be wrong.

I also found myself agreeing with Eddie Everywhere therefore I am fully prepared for the scorn that will be heaped upon me.

FWIW, I think Adam Goodes has behaved like a nob over the last couple of years, which is a shame because I've always had a lot of respect for Adam Goodes the footballer.

 

[HBF]

I think the trick is to not be caught on what is perceived to be the wrong side of this debate, because then your opinion is considered to be wrong.

I also found myself agreeing with Eddie Everywhere therefore I am fully prepared for the scorn that will be heaped upon me.

FWIW, I think Adam Goodes has behaved like a nob over the last couple of years, which is a shame because I've always had a lot of respect for Adam Goodes the footballer.

I found myself nodding when I was reading this.

 

[Toddy86]

Cripps needs a big finish to the year to win the RS award! Hogan has been very impressive for a while now.