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Yeah i pretty much took it as if he regretted it. i meant it in good jest too, and i thought he'd react differently. he doesn't owe me squat, as ManWithNoName said i'm just some Melbourne supporter off the street. If i knew he was going to react the way he did i probably wouldn't have asked him on an important night for him.

Still though, don't agree with what happened on the day, but it was 14 years ago so live and let live i suppose. Although then again we Melbourne supporters do is seem to dwell on the past! (Guilty!)
He could've played the "it was a grand final there are no rules" card or something like that if he didn't think it was a big deal. But the fact he kind of went quiet sounds like he regrets it, or isn't proud of it.
 

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Ando727

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It's clear you've made up your mind on the matter, so as I said I wasn't trying to defend it. Just providing an alternate point of view.
Understood, you've made up your mind that he's a fantastic bloke. I'm just providing the alternative viewpoint that he's a campaigner. Each to their own. I don't need you to agree with me. Peace bro.
 

markm106

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I'm struggling to see how Mckenzie gets a game next year. I was surprised when they gave him a 2 year extension as well. I understand he is a tagger but I can't see him bringing enough to the table post Cross to cement a spot. Gets a heap of the footy at VFL level but can't put that across to AFL level.
 

SuburbanMe

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I'm struggling to see how Mckenzie gets a game next year. I was surprised when they gave him a 2 year extension as well. I understand he is a tagger but I can't see him bringing enough to the table post Cross to cement a spot. Gets a heap of the footy at VFL level but can't put that across to AFL level.
Ellie McKenzie.

That answer your questions?
 

Topkent

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I'm struggling to see how Mckenzie gets a game next year. I was surprised when they gave him a 2 year extension as well. I understand he is a tagger but I can't see him bringing enough to the table post Cross to cement a spot. Gets a heap of the footy at VFL level but can't put that across to AFL level.

Injuries and poor form, and the fact that we still have probably the worst midfield in the league
 

Demon 16

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I'm struggling to see how Mckenzie gets a game next year. I was surprised when they gave him a 2 year extension as well. I understand he is a tagger but I can't see him bringing enough to the table post Cross to cement a spot. Gets a heap of the footy at VFL level but can't put that across to AFL level.

I still don't think we've got a stand out tagger that's made the role there own.

Cross is the best, but he can still be used as a decent midfielder, so if McKenzie can get some form up, I could see him playing a few games as a purely defensive mid perhaps?
 
With Brayshaw and Petracca coming on, I'd be amazed if that is still the case 12-18 months from now.
If Brayshaw and Petracca come on like Crouch/O'Meara/Scully/Trengove, sure. But I wouldn't be expecting that given how poor the rest of the side is (makes it very difficult for them to be good quick), and as in the case of the last two coming on quickly doesn't always last.
 

Ando727

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If Brayshaw and Petracca come on like Crouch/O'Meara/Scully/Trengove, sure. But I wouldn't be expecting that given how poor the rest of the side is (makes it very difficult for them to be good quick), and as in the case of the last two coming on quickly doesn't always last.

Yes, but we're only talking about what it would take to not be the crappiest midfield in the competition. I mean seriously, how hard would it be to jump over St Kilda or the Bulldogs? Or put another way: if we think it's a pipedream just to be better than those two clubs in the midfield, we may as well just chuck it in and fold as a club.
 
Yes, but we're only talking about what it would take to not be the crappiest midfield in the competition. I mean seriously, how hard would it be to jump over St Kilda or the Bulldogs? Or put another way: if we think it's a pipedream just to be better than those two clubs in the midfield, we may as well just chuck it in and fold as a club.
The Saints and Dogs have plenty of talent too. Billings, Dunstan, Steven, Acres, Weller, Newnes for StK. Macrae, Libba, Bont, Daniel, Hunter, Wallis, Hrovat, Stringer, Honeychurch, and Dahlhaus for the Dogs. We're not the only club stacking it. I'm confident our talent is better but it's not set in stone by any means. First we have to just beat these teams.
 

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Topkent

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Yes, but we're only talking about what it would take to not be the crappiest midfield in the competition. I mean seriously, how hard would it be to jump over St Kilda or the Bulldogs? Or put another way: if we think it's a pipedream just to be better than those two clubs in the midfield, we may as well just chuck it in and fold as a club.

The bulldogs young mids are miles infront of ours at the moment

We are still basing our midfield on toumpas , watts, Salem, brayshaw, petracca and to an extent viney and Tyson who are unproven as a grade quality though the latter is very close

We aren't even close to a competitive midfield yet but we are building

We are still massively reliant on the clearance work and foot skills of Vince and jones where as the bulldogs lost cooney and griffen and will still have a better starting midfield

Collingwood is the midfield we should be aiming to chase down in the near future

They've lost beams, ball, lumumba, Thomas , shaw and swan may be pushing to find his best form leaving a lot to pendles and sidebottom


Let's not get too excited yet

Not every kid is a guarantee as we would know , go to out 11/12 starting midfield and it had scully, Trenners, Morton , gysberts, tappy, blease , Strauss, bate etc

I'd expect us to develop talent better this time but young talent doesn't equal elite A grade talent
 
Anyone else score big from Santa with Dees stuff?
Somebody got me 'The Red Fox' which should be a good read. My uncle who lives ways away in tassie seems to forget how old i am and sent me some face paint
 
The bulldogs young mids are miles infront of ours at the moment

We are still basing our midfield on toumpas , watts, Salem, brayshaw, petracca and to an extent viney and Tyson who are unproven as a grade quality though the latter is very close

We aren't even close to a competitive midfield yet but we are building

We are still massively reliant on the clearance work and foot skills of Vince and jones where as the bulldogs lost cooney and griffen and will still have a better starting midfield

Collingwood is the midfield we should be aiming to chase down in the near future

They've lost beams, ball, lumumba, Thomas , shaw and swan may be pushing to find his best form leaving a lot to pendles and sidebottom


Let's not get too excited yet

Not every kid is a guarantee as we would know , go to out 11/12 starting midfield and it had scully, Trenners, Morton , gysberts, tappy, blease , Strauss, bate etc

I'd expect us to develop talent better this time but young talent doesn't equal elite A grade talent
Exactly this. I think we're around the mark for Saints/Dogs/Pies/Blues talent in the midfield, and not far behind the Eagles and Cats. But until we start beating these sides and our midfield starts matching sides on a weekly basis it doesn't mean anything. The very large majority of our mids are still younger than 22 years old.
 
Anyone else score big from Santa with Dees stuff?
1b.jpg

Never going to use it though, too nice to eat off.
 

markm106

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I think our midfield is probably the weakest in the comp. Things could change this year with the new recruits from past 2 years. Also Viney with a full pre season could have a break out season. McCartney on board will also be important for our midfield development.
 

Ando727

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Exactly this. I think we're around the mark for Saints/Dogs/Pies/Blues talent in the midfield, and not far behind the Eagles and Cats. But until we start beating these sides and our midfield starts matching sides on a weekly basis it doesn't mean anything. The very large majority of our mids are still younger than 22 years old.
Our midfield has to beat their midfield - that's the parameter of this discussion. There's more that goes into winning a match than just mids. Clearly we have everything to prove, but I think we are going to start going past some teams with our midfield once Petracca and Brayshaw are into their second season. Doesn't mean we will be playing finals or working miracles, but I think with McCartney coaching them, they will progress and we will be providing a solid contest.
 
I think our midfield is probably the weakest in the comp. Things could change this year with the new recruits from past 2 years. Also Viney with a full pre season could have a break out season. McCartney on board will also be important for our midfield development.

Agree, we got some good players in there last year at least (Cross, Tyson and Vince) but we still lack depth - our best mids are solid but the lack of depth is very poor.

The good sign is that it's no longer 'definitely' the worst midfield in the comp.
 

Sprout

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The bulldogs young mids are miles infront of ours at the moment

We are still basing our midfield on toumpas , watts, Salem, brayshaw, petracca and to an extent viney and Tyson who are unproven as a grade quality though the latter is very close
I wouldn't be underselling the reliance of the Dogs on their senior players.

The top 10 disposal getters for them in 2014 in order were Macrae, Libba, Boyd, Dahlhaus, Murphy, Griffen, Higgins, Picken, Cooney and Stevens.

So that's 3 of their top 10 gone with Boyd turning 33 next year. Macrae, Libba, Dahlhaus and Stevens are the only ones who qualify as "young" mids. The first two are two of the best young players in the league, but it becomes a fair jump down after these four with the likes of Wallis and Hrovat still barely registering above serviceable. Wallis is good on the inside but even Michie saw more of the ball on average than he did in 2014.

So, whilst they are clearly ahead in development with a talented young crop, as a midfield unit they can certainly be chased down. However I base that on a belief that Salem and Toumpas will take significant steps forward in 2015, with Tyson establishing himself as A grade and Viney not far behind. Those four combined with the reliability of Jones (capable of going to another level again) Vince and Cross will see us coming closer to breaking even more often. Add in some elite potential in Petracca, Brayshaw and Neal-Bullen, all as close to ready made as it gets for an 18 year old, then throw in Michie and Newton. In theory, we will be able to match it with a majority of sides.

To be honest, considering the closeness of the games this year and their senior departures, I'll be disappointed not to finish above the Dogs next season.
 

pure demon

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The bulldogs young mids are miles infront of ours at the moment

We are still basing our midfield on toumpas , watts, Salem, brayshaw, petracca and to an extent viney and Tyson who are unproven as a grade quality though the latter is very close

We aren't even close to a competitive midfield yet but we are building

We are still massively reliant on the clearance work and foot skills of Vince and jones where as the bulldogs lost cooney and griffen and will still have a better starting midfield

Collingwood is the midfield we should be aiming to chase down in the near future

They've lost beams, ball, lumumba, Thomas , shaw and swan may be pushing to find his best form leaving a lot to pendles and sidebottom


Let's not get too excited yet

Not every kid is a guarantee as we would know , go to out 11/12 starting midfield and it had scully, Trenners, Morton , gysberts, tappy, blease , Strauss, bate etc

I'd expect us to develop talent better this time but young talent doesn't equal elite A grade talent
Id glad this topic came up, and im glad you used the bulldogs as a reference. I watch the second 2014 vs bulldogs game again last night and these are my revelations. Are our players just brainless? The delivery into the forwardline in the first half was atrocious! We were pulling the trigger and kicking to a one on three, OR we holding onto the ball when we had dawes, gawn one on one. And has any melbourne player heard of kicking to a teamates advantage?
Now most of these errors are between the ears, its decision making and can be fixed. Also some highly skilled players wouldnt hurt.
Allthough there will be a number of changes from that side that played the dogs in round 15, simply replace the players that are no longer at the club
Frawley/ Hogan. Nicholson/ Lamumba. Barry/Garlett. I see another 3 or 4 changes, but you should see where im coming from.
If we cant beat the bulldogs next year, then paul roos cant coach
 
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