The Law Data retention and the surveillance state.

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Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 16, 2007
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Imagine a time in the future, where your Government has forced all ISP's to record your private internet activity for upto a decade. Now imagine the removal of a need for warrants to access this vast pool of data, which could end up in the hands of police, intelligence agencies, government ministers or private IT security contractors.

Perhaps even go a bit further, to a future where most information is stored digitally. Where you have been, or more importantly where you are, who you have partied with, your private communications, loves and hates, business deals, ideas and IP all have existed or are stored, to some extent, on the web.

In this future Governments and private enterprise have colluded to create vast databases, where advanced meta search algorithms combined with sophisticated predictive programs, trawl through this sea of information on the hunt for juicy tidbits, identifying patterns and creating profiles of your actions, personality and movements, cross referencing it against real time input in search of red flags or anomalies.

Ok a bit crazy, tin foil hattish, the plot for umpteen number of b-grade sci-fi movies...... Not really, because the hypothetical circumstances presented are not that far away from our current reality.




Now the first two hypotheticals are in no way as yet related. In that sense I have jumped the gun a bit.

But both are very real proposals and/or possibilities.

In fact, there are many other similar ideas along similar lines to the first, being proposed or enacted currently around the globe.

Yet this new project by google and the CIA, takes us from the territory of unwieldy Government snooping, to an era of sophisticated digital profiling and data collection.

So now the point.

Outside of any blatant tinfoil hatism and there is obviously an underlying implicit warning, or a call for deep concern.

If not already, we may have to start taking very seriously what we post and send on the web. Private communiqués are just not that and personal internet security (TOR, encrypted email or chat clients etc.) may become a very real necessity.

In fact it may be something people really need to consider in terms of their politics/and or political involvement. It does seem all but inevitable unless concerned parties are interested in making their voices heard, raising awareness or even affecting change with their vote.

Well, an imaginary penny for your thoughts?
 
I think the snooping has being going on for a long time already. Google may be new to it, who knows. The Australian government are always behind the times, so a foreign counterpart must've made this suggestion to them, for them to want in.

It's probably a better, and safer, bet, to assume you're being monitored to some degree, than to assume otherwise, especially on the internet.
 
I think the snooping has being going on for a long time already. Google may be new to it, who knows. The Australian government are always behind the times, so a foreign counterpart must've made this suggestion to them, for them to want in.

It's probably a better, and safer, bet, to assume you're being monitored to some degree, than to assume otherwise, especially on the internet.
Agree. Hate to think the technology being applied already.
For instance - subvert, bomb, terrorist, Allah - this thread is on it's way to the Echelon mainframes.
They already monitor computer traffic, phone calls, and now public places.

 

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Imagine a time in the future, where your Government has forced all ISP's to record your private internet activity for upto a decade. Now imagine the removal of a need for warrants to access this vast pool of data, which could end up in the hands of police, intelligence agencies, government ministers or private IT security contractors.

Perhaps even go a bit further, to a future where most information is stored digitally. Where you have been, or more importantly where you are, who you have partied with, your private communications, loves and hates, business deals, ideas and IP all have existed or are stored, to some extent, on the web.

In this future Governments and private enterprise have colluded to create vast databases, where advanced meta search algorithms combined with sophisticated predictive programs, trawl through this sea of information on the hunt for juicy tidbits, identifying patterns and creating profiles of your actions, personality and movements, cross referencing it against real time input in search of red flags or anomalies.

Ok a bit crazy, tin foil hattish, the plot for umpteen number of b-grade sci-fi movies...... Not really, because the hypothetical circumstances presented are not that far away from our current reality.


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Now the first two hypotheticals are in no way as yet related. In that sense I have jumped the gun a bit.

But both are very real proposals and/or possibilities.

In fact, there are many other similar ideas along similar lines to the first, being proposed or enacted currently around the globe.

Yet this new project by google and the CIA, takes us from the territory of unwieldy Government snooping, to an era of sophisticated digital profiling and data collection.

So now the point.

Outside of any blatant tinfoil hatism and there is obviously an underlying implicit warning, or a call for deep concern.

If not already, we may have to start taking very seriously what we post and send on the web. Private communiqués are just not that and personal internet security (TOR, encrypted email or chat clients etc.) may become a very real necessity.

In fact it may be something people really need to consider in terms of their politics/and or political involvement. It does seem all but inevitable unless concerned parties are interested in making their voices heard, raising awareness or even affecting change with their vote.

Well, an imaginary penny for your thoughts?

I posted this pre snowden leaks and pre data retention push.

The writing was on the wall long before this thread.

I wonder, how will we arrest the slide and where it will lead.

My guess, we already live in a world of automated data mining and profiling. Once automation moves from public to private hands and it encompasses not just informafion retrieval, collation and requests on demand, but starts to identify targets and trends, outlining strategies for intervention, then the world may change dramatically. Perhaps we are just about there, and in 2 or 3 years when we read about DOD engineering public sentiment using bots, or not just locating targets for drone strikes using metadata, but identifying hazards and the rest of the process largely by automation this post will seem outdated.

Has a distopic future begun and we just havent realis....
 
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http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/06/gchq-mass-internet-surveillance-unlawful-court-nsa

UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’

The regime that governs the sharing between Britain and the United States of electronic communications intercepted in bulk was unlawful until last year, a secretive UK tribunal has ruled.

The Investigatory Powers Tribunal (IPT) declared on Friday that regulations covering access by Britain’s GCHQ to emails and phone records intercepted by the US National Security Agency breached human rights law.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/06/gchq-mass-internet-surveillance-unlawful-court-nsa
 
Imagine a time in the future, where your Government has forced all ISP's to record your private internet activity for upto a decade. Now imagine the removal of a need for warrants to access this vast pool of data, which could end up in the hands of police, intelligence agencies, government ministers or private IT security contractors.
Here it comes...

Bipartisan support for metadata retention. Journalists not questioning anyone about the lies being told:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/10/31/the-five-data-retention-lies-you-were-told-yesterday/
 
I think the snooping has being going on for a long time already. Google may be new to it, who knows. The Australian government are always behind the times, so a foreign counterpart must've made this suggestion to them, for them to want in.

It's probably a better, and safer, bet, to assume you're being monitored to some degree, than to assume otherwise, especially on the internet.
Although they don't advertise it there have been a number of projects to implement at ISP level and at Telstra cable level for deep packet inspection most of this has been live for at least 2 years.
 
The whole Snowden thing and wails of tears was interesting and probably wrapped up in a bit of a culture where subterfuge, mystery and lying politicians make the news and create angry mobs.

And yet I was listening to a radio documentary n the BBC which was recorded a year or two before Snowden where some senior head of GCHQ was happily showing the BBC reporting around a massive GCHQ data centre with the implicit understanding that all Internet connections was being monitored and analysed. Didn't make the slightest ripple of controversy at the time.
 

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Here it comes...

Bipartisan support for metadata retention. Journalists not questioning anyone about the lies being told:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/10/31/the-five-data-retention-lies-you-were-told-yesterday/
Its maddening.

That they both misunderstand and willfully lie about aspects of the bill that have not been accidentally misrepresented and that the media gives them a free pass coz terra, is a great example of institutional failure, be that the executive or 4th estate.

Part of the problem is regulatory capture, media giants using the security smokescreen to push policies that are about enforcing tough copyright regimes, the other is unacountable security services and contractors dictating policy.

Data retention didnt help the french, so why is Abbott parading failed policy as savior.

Bumbling our way into subtle tyrany.
 
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/downloadthisshow/6145722

Metadata regime open to abuse: insider

As the government steps up pressure on the opposition to swiftly pass its mandatory data retention regime, Marc Fennell spoke to a former police employee who worked directly with metadata. According to this insider, the proposed regime would be easily abused and more oversight is needed.

A former police employee who has worked extensively with metadata has told Download this Show that the government’s proposed mandatory data retention regime is open for abuse and may one day be used against Australians who download music and TV shows.


‘The Australian people are being sleep walked into a system the attorney general cannot even articulate,’ said the insider, who spoke on the condition of anonymity?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/downloadthisshow/6145722
 
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/19/great-sim-heist/


How Spies Stole the Keys to the Encryption Castle
The Intercept - First Look Media‎ - 8 hours ago
The NSA and its allies stole the keys to your phone's security




The Verge‎ - 8 hours ago
The NSA and Britain's intelligence network hacked the largest SIM card maker to secretly monitor mobile phone
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and make another prediction.

Within the next few years there is going to be a further significant scandal.

The first has been mass surveilance, the second will be automation. We will find out that the process for identifyi g targets for drone kill lists, locating and targeting is completely automated. That surveilance and the profiling and calls to action to arrest or conduct operations against civillian targets will also be or is automated. This will largely be on the back of data retention and evolution of current capabilities.

Drone operators already use metadata to locate targets, however my guess is that there is a huge transition underway from direct human agency to full automation and from public to private. Within the decade we will go from partial outsourcing to full private management and analysis of data. A name and a number is what the agencies will receive, rather like that peogram person of interes, and one day very soon the only human step in the drone kill chain will be a signature on a form
 
I'm just going to roll over and go to sleep, can someone wake me when the revolution starts ?
Rising inequality, elected officials representing donors, rampart corruption.... no wonder the establishment are getting paranoid and want to spy on us.
The citizens are their biggest threat in these circumstance

Check out what the honkey has been saying lately

"Senator Brandis, after watching a presentation from a Google executive at the summit in Washington, billed the domestic measure as an important tool to counteract terrorists who use the internet to "weaponise information"

Knowledge is dangerous

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/george_brandis_seeks_to_shut_down_JfJ0egCv5CeoJKuiuBvuHK
 
Proudhon was right!
To be governed is to be watched over, inspected, spied on, directed, legislated at, regulated, docketed, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, assessed, weighed, censored, ordered about, by men who have neither the right, nor the knowledge, nor the virtue.

but then maybe so was Churchill
democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time
 
I'm just going to roll over and go to sleep, can someone wake me when the revolution starts ?
Rising inequality, elected officials representing donors, rampart corruption.... no wonder the establishment are getting paranoid and want to spy on us.
The citizens are their biggest threat in these circumstance

Check out what the honkey has been saying lately

"Senator Brandis, after watching a presentation from a Google executive at the summit in Washington, billed the domestic measure as an important tool to counteract terrorists who use the internet to "weaponise information"

Knowledge is dangerous

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/george_brandis_seeks_to_shut_down_JfJ0egCv5CeoJKuiuBvuHK
I imagine this piece of human excrement is more likely thinking of the Snowdens and wikileaks et al, who use leaked information to push back against the surveilance state. Or opposing political interest.

It also paints a dark picture for potential scope creep. What does Brandis consider terrorism, what does he consider a threat, who will be the target for so called special operations? It is marginally to do with the Islamists, given past indiferance and or incompetence when it comes to using these tools to stop attacks.

Nope, this is about engineering public opinion and viciously stamping out dissent. Companies like google are looking to make dollars on the back of a host of sophisticated astroterfing algorithms.

I wonder if they even understand the digital ecology they are creating? Much like the stock market, where in a space of years the vast majority of trades, are high frequency and automated, well beyond the scope of industry to influence, very soon digital warfare, intrusion, monitoring, designation of threats, social media campaigns to change public opinion, all will be either completely or partly autonomous and well outside of direct human control. By the end of the decade we may have networks going down, documents being leaked en masse, wholesale electronic fraud, attacks on infrastructure all as bots attack and employ counter measures against one another. Stuxnet, with a bot holding the trigger, zomby networks controlled by AI swarms, bombarding opposing interests, industrial espionage and counter measures like the sony leaks done by non human actors.

This is the real weaponization of data, and information age tools .
 

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