Gough Whitlam: Messiah or Very Naughty Boy?

[scon]

The exception does not prove the rule.

Melbourne rail is screwed, and it is run by private enterprise.

Victorian electricity is expensive and it is done by private enterprise.

You wouldn't want to make the mistake of thinking pokerspive had a clue what he was talking about re Branson and BritRail.

PS
Or anything else.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Forward thinking and planning should be left to private enterprise. Governments should stick to upholding the rule of law and defending the country.

Their planning more often than not results in utter s**t. That's what happens when you make decisions about how to spend other people's money. There's very little thought put into it because the people making the decisions have no personal stake in the result.

Were you absent during the GFC when dozens of privately owned banks screwed the planet over for generations to come?

 

[B4Bear]

Forward thinking and planning should be left to private enterprise. Governments should stick to upholding the rule of law and defending the country.

Their planning more often than not results in utter s**t. That's what happens when you make decisions about how to spend other people's money. There's very little thought put into it because the people making the decisions have no personal stake in the result.

So the installation of electricity in Victoria was s**t?

The telecommunications Industry was s**t?

Airlines s**t?

Ports and rail s**t?

Snowy Mountains scheme s**t?

Hume Highway s**t?

The only thing that is s**t, Is the opinion that business is always the answer.

 

[Xsess]

Lol 75% of this board thinks Gough is the messiah. The guy delivered nothing but chaos and misery.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

Lol 75% of this board thinks Gough is the messiah. The guy delivered nothing but chaos and misery.

Nothing but, huh?

Perhaps if you laid off the bullshit generalisations, people wouldn't laugh so hard at you.

 

[mottrain]

Nothing but, huh?

Perhaps if you laid off the bullshit generalisations, people wouldn't laugh so hard at you.

No he has some merit considering the majority on this board is clearly left leaning.

 

[Xsess]

Nothing but, huh?

Perhaps if you laid off the bullshit generalisations, people wouldn't laugh so hard at you.

Or another way. The man was sacked by the GG for sending the country broke and engaging a shady bagman to set up a dodgy slush fund. Then he was on the end of Australian politics mother of all election thrashings...

75% of BF think he's the messiah.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

You should equally be banned for what you said about Louis Maxwell.

Spot the difference, champ.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

Or another way. The man was sacked by the GG for sending the country broke and engaging a shady bagman to set up a dodgy slush fund. Then he was on the end of Australian politics mother of all election thrashings...

75% of BF think he's the messiah.

If you are just going to post your twisted interpretation of reality, there really isn't any point in going further.

You will note, MAYBE, that most people have acknowledged Gough's shortcomings whilst in power.

However, as usual, you are just making s**t up.

 

[pazza]

Or another way. The man was sacked by the GG for sending the country broke and engaging a shady bagman to set up a dodgy slush fund. Then he was on the end of Australian politics mother of all election thrashings...

75% of BF think he's the messiah.

What people are saying is that despite his problems, he delivered to a country as many positives as negatives. Messiah? No. But a person given a poisoned chalice almost and doing a lot in short period with it - the good things have become bedrocks in the country since their introduction. Many people previously ignored or not with a voice were given one.

The full story needs to be told.

 

[pokerspiv]

What people are saying is that despite his problems, he delivered to a country as many positives as negatives.

And what we are saying is that a lot of the things you think are positives are in fact negatives, at least in our opinion.

Gough did some undeniably good things, like ending conscription. But spending a shitload of taxpayers money on schemes of dubious value is not a good thing to many, even if it was "doing something". Many of us would prefer governments did less.

 

[mottrain]

Spot the difference, champ.

Oh so because the content differs it makes it ok to make false offensive accusations about someone? I can spot the difference, I was using it as a strawman to respond to your genuine and intentional false accusation towards Louis.

 

[rodney hoo]

Or another way. The man was sacked by the GG for sending the country broke and engaging a shady bagman to set up a dodgy slush fund. Then he was on the end of Australian politics mother of all election thrashings...

75% of BF think he's the messiah.

The man was trying to set up the slush fund as you call it to buy the mining leases back in Australian hands. Just think if he had achieved this & how much money would be in this countries pockets now, look at Norway & see how simple it is.

 

[pazza]

And what we are saying is that a lot of the things you think are positives are in fact negatives, at least in our opinion.

Gough did some undeniably good things, like ending conscription. But spending a shitload of taxpayers money on schemes of dubious value is not a good thing to many, even if it was "doing something". Many of us would prefer governments did less.

Ok.

Medibank. Let's use that as an example. Having healthcare affordable and accessible has ultimately improved the lives of many. Something that Medicare since 1984 has also done. Something simple like improving the quality of life for Australians is big. Seriously big. And ultimately much more positive than the cost of it.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

Oh so because the content differs it makes it ok to make false offensive accusations about someone? I can spot the difference, I was using it as a strawman to respond to your genuine and intentional false accusation towards Louis.

and there you go again.

back to this for thee

 

[pokerspiv]

Ok.

Medibank. Let's use that as an example. Having healthcare affordable and accessible has ultimately improved the lives of many. Something that Medicare since 1984 has also done. Something simple like improving the quality of life for Australians is big. Seriously big. And ultimately much more positive than the cost of it.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medibank?

Medicare I can agree with. Medibank is simply a government-run business that competes with privately owned businesses offering the same service. An example of unnecessary duplication, no different than if the government opened its own airline or bank.

In earlier times such businesses had some justification given that Australia was a young economy and had insufficient market demand for private businesses to cater to those needs. In a mature market, these businesses should be sold off. Australia Post is another example of a service that is no longer needed, and only still exists because competitors are prevented by legislation by competing with it in its primary business (Under the Australian Postal Corporation Act 1989, Australia Post has a monopoly over the carriage and delivery of letters up to 250 grams.).

 

[B4Bear]

Ok.

Medibank. Let's use that as an example. Having healthcare affordable and accessible has ultimately improved the lives of many. Something that Medicare since 1984 has also done. Something simple like improving the quality of life for Australians is big. Seriously big. And ultimately much more positive than the cost of it.

But, but, but, Australia and its government is only here to allow businesses to make money.

The health, happiness and welfare of the citizens is of secondary importance.

No wonder the 'right' hate him as much in death as in life.

/sarc

 

[B4Bear]

Are you talking about Medicare or Medibank?

Medicare I can agree with. Medibank is simply a government-run business that competes with privately owned businesses offering the same service. An example of unnecessary duplication, no different than if the government opened its own airline or bank.

Like QANTAS and the Bank of NSW maybe?

 

[pokerspiv]

Like QANTAS and the Bank of NSW maybe?

Yes, exactly like that.

 

[pazza]

Are you talking about Medicare or Medibank?

Medicare I can agree with. Medibank is simply a government-run business that competes with privately owned businesses offering the same service. An example of unnecessary duplication, no different than if the government opened its own airline or bank.

Someone needs some history lessons.

In 1974, Whitlam introduced Medibank. Medibank itself operated as Medicare does now, hence Hawke reintroducing it within 12 months of being re-elected. It made accessing doctors and hospitals easier and available to all.

The Medibank that exists now is a branch of the old one..as a Government run private insurer.

 

[Jiska]

So do you believe it is wrong to cut tax rates at the high end from 48.5% to a lower level? Surely those who pay higher taxes deserve some of their money back. Btw, I am a low income worker and every taxpayer received tax cuts?

Yes, I believe it's wrong to cut those taxes. Generally speaking, the dollar value offered by employers to highly paid positions takes tax in to account (these salaries are normally determined by the market). I don't have any problem with the CEO of Westpac being taxed 6 million dollars a year. The more someone earns, the more they should contribute. If you cut the tax of the higher income earners, that loss of revenue has to be made up somewhere. It's easier made up through A/ the low income earners or B/ a reduction in spending.

I don't believe we should reduce spending, I believe we should redirect our spending in to building infrastructure for the future.

 

[Jiska]

Richard Branson now owns the UK's rail system, and it's far superior to what it was when it was owned by the state.

Slightly different. In fact, gigantically different. The population density in England makes it viable.

 

[Jiska]

No he has some merit considering the majority on this board is clearly left leaning.

Well no, he doesn't have any merit, because it's just a random throw away line without any substance or backing.

Or another way. The man was sacked by the GG for sending the country broke and engaging a shady bagman to set up a dodgy slush fund. Then he was on the end of Australian politics mother of all election thrashings...

75% of BF think he's the messiah.

No. He was sacked because the Liberal Party decided that democracy was a bad thing.

 

[pokerspiv]

Slightly different. In fact, gigantically different. The population density in England makes it viable.

England was just as densely populated when it was run by the government, and it was a shambles then. Governments just aren't very good at running businesses, again because there is no responsibility for the people running it. It doesn't matter to them if the business is successful or not, since taxpayers will keep funding them regardless.

 

[pokerspiv]

Yes, I believe it's wrong to cut those taxes. Generally speaking, the dollar value offered by employers to highly paid positions takes tax in to account (these salaries are normally determined by the market). I don't have any problem with the CEO of Westpac being taxed 6 million dollars a year. The more someone earns, the more they should contribute.

The issue with this is that if you tax people too highly, they will leave. There are numerous famous examples.

Your country is competing with every other country in the world to attract successful companies and successful business people.

Taxes can be looked at as the price of doing business/working. Like anything else, increasing prices reduces demand.

This is why the idea floated by various people to establish special economics zones in Northern Australia is something I think has a lot of merit. It would encourage firms to move operations to Australia. Northern Australia is vastly underpopulated but has significant natural advantages (namely much more water than Southern Australia and close proximity to asian export markets). Establishing SEZ's like China has with Shenzhen, Macau, Hong Kong etc would significantly kickstart the economy in places like Far North Queensland and Northern WA.