Goulburn Valley FL 2015

[navyblueman]

I wasn't speaking on just Mansfield but I do know one Doon player who was given vice captaincy is going back to Mansfield and is getting paid to travell and play and has a better deal than Doon was willing to match I have spoken to this player who i am not naming out of respect I have no hate towards the Mansfield footy club my family has a good history at the club and I enjoy watching the games and catching up with the players at the pub but I am not just speaking on just GV clubs this is happening across a broader level I have a lot of mates the play at district level who have came from the U18s at higher grades who have been offered big money or are asking for big money I used Mansfield And Doon As an example cause I know money has been thrown at kids who are unproven look at clubs like Greta for an example this year one of there players had played 6 games in the seniors at Benalla then went around district league clubs asking for 600 plus a game sorry if I offended u in anyway I'm just saying from my prospective as a young player and knowing a lot of young players

That young player out of benalla did shop himself around to district clubs at a high price. However he found out that most clubs weren't prepared to pay his asking price. Greta offered him a reasonable amount and he accrepted (for less than another club offered). He then agreed to play for a lot less in 2015 before moving interstate for work.

 

[Turbos mail]

Getting close to footy season and KY still without a legitimate coach.. Shermo still not cleared.. Bit of an unusual situation. Do KY have a back up plan if it doesn't work out. im sure if his not cleared his not allowed in the rooms or on the ground to coach...
From what I'm hearing in Melb, KY need to sort out a deal and quickly. Surely they know how these things play out or are they listening to Shermo to much. Whichever way he wishes to explain it, he signed a 2 year contract which included financial payments. Clubs must and should be protected by compensation, otherwise the system is a failure..
If you borrow money from a bank you must pay it back yes.. If you take time off work and you don't have any leave, do you expect your boss to pay you anyway.. "I Don't think so" TAKE RESPONSIBILITY..

 

[GG Rides Again]

Getting close to footy season and KY still without a legitimate coach.. Shermo still not cleared.. Bit of an unusual situation. Do KY have a back up plan if it doesn't work out. im sure if his not cleared his not allowed in the rooms or on the ground to coach...
From what I'm hearing in Melb, KY need to sort out a deal and quickly. Surely they know how these things play out or are they listening to Shermo to much. Whichever way he wishes to explain it, he signed a 2 year contract which included financial payments. Clubs must and should be protected by compensation, otherwise the system is a failure..
If you borrow money from a bank you must pay it back yes.. If you take time off work and you don't have any leave, do you expect your boss to pay you anyway.. "I Don't think so" TAKE RESPONSIBILITY..

This happens somewhere most years. A week out from 1st game after both clubs in question have said it won't happen, the club will get a payment to cover off the outstanding ( if any or a gratuity) and if he doesn't want to play there, he'll get cleared and everyone will move on. If Pascoe Vale? was to enforce contract and make him stand out they would ostracise themselves from just about every other club in Victoria.
See how it plays out but I have never seen a coach appointed not be able to take training and not play / coach Round 1. Have seen players not play round 1 for disputes but never a coach.

 

[onepercentre]

Second clearance has been denied , KY obviously not prepared to agree to Pascoe Vales terms , don't think they have any choice they poached a contracted player .

 

[Turbos mail]

This happens somewhere most years. A week out from 1st game after both clubs in question have said it won't happen, the club will get a payment to cover off the outstanding ( if any or a gratuity) and if he doesn't want to play there, he'll get cleared and everyone will move on. If Pascoe Vale? was to enforce contract and make him stand out they would ostracise themselves from just about every other club in Victoria.
See how it plays out but I have never seen a coach appointed not be able to take training and not play / coach Round 1. Have seen players not play round 1 for disputes but never a coach.

Valid points. Just an unusual situation and can't be good for the club...

 

[Woody Woodman]

Ahhh contracts, not worth the paper they're written on unless someone wants them enforced and only a court can do that. This could be an expensive and time consuming exercise, not a good distraction.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Intriguing discussions about super leagues and breaking down existing leagues and zones. It would be interesting to ask clubs and committees in existing structures if they want change. Surely the communities thenselves must be the key drivers behind restructuring? Do Euroa want out of the GVFL? I doubt it. Rochester? No. Kyabram? I doubt it. Echuca did eant to leave for the BFL but that was more a Easter Weekend tantrum. I doubt Locky want back to the Bendigo League and pretty sure Rumbalara are content in the Murrey League. The bigger issue is mantaining healthy and viable District leagues. They prop the whole thing up. The sooner country footy adopts a points system we will see grassroots footy maintain viability. Money cannot be the number one driver with a points system and nationwide database. Players are registered with their junior club and you take it from there. The more you move clubs the more points you attract. If each club is issued with say 30 points and locals command 1 point, it becomes pretty simple. And yes I understand that some district clubs devoid of player numbers may need assistance but at least you stop the mercenary mentality.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Intriguing discussions about super leagues and breaking down existing leagues and zones. It would be interesting to ask clubs and committees in existing structures if they want change. Surely the communities thenselves must be the key drivers behind restructuring? Do Euroa want out of the GVFL? I doubt it. Rochester? No. Kyabram? I doubt it. Echuca did eant to leave for the BFL but that was more a Easter Weekend tantrum. I doubt Locky want back to the Bendigo League and pretty sure Rumbalara are content in the Murrey League. The bigger issue is mantaining healthy and viable District leagues. They prop the whole thing up. The sooner country footy adopts a points system we will see grassroots footy maintain viability. Money cannot be the number one driver with a points system and nationwide database. Players are registered with their junior club and you take it from there. The more you move clubs the more points you attract. If each club is issued with say 30 points and locals command 1 point, it becomes pretty simple. And yes I understand that some district clubs devoid of player numbers may need assistance but at least you stop the mercenary mentality.

Who administers it ? One of the many volunteers who are about to leave the game because of the workload already placed upon them ?
Rochester is one of the smallest towns in the GVFL, yet in terms of where they have finished at senior level year after year , are possibly the most successful . Yet others who enjoy are far more favourably population haven't been successful .
At present it is simply supply and demand and there isn't enough people playing senior footy .
Caps / point systems are going to do nothing to fill reserve sides , whilst addressing player shortage will impact on player payments .

 

[Silver Tongue]

Who administers it ? One of the many volunteers who are about to leave the game because of the workload already placed upon them ?
Rochester is one of the smallest towns in the GVFL, yet in terms of where they have finished at senior level year after year , are possibly the most successful . Yet others who enjoy are far more favourably population haven't been successful .
At present it is simply supply and demand and there isn't enough people playing senior footy .
Caps / point systems are going to do nothing to fill reserve sides , whilst addressing player shortage will impact on player payments .

Highly paid league administrators are in charge of a ponts system not thw clubs.
And by the way I should have said a local = 0 points in a points system and each club gets 30 points (or 20). The issue of diminishing numbers playing past juniors is a slightly differnt one though the two are linked. One problem at a time Roar!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Highly paid league administrators are in charge of a ponts system not thw clubs.
And by the way I should have said a local = 0 points in a points system and each club gets 30 points (or 20). The issue of diminishing numbers playing past juniors is a slightly differnt one though the two are linked. One problem at a time Roar!

Why not fix both and do it so that it doesn't take a huge amount if $$$'s to administer . Clubs paying $10k each for their league to be administered is absolutely ridiculous , clubs should be looking for that figure to be diminished . If the AFL are looking for comps to be more even why not allocate more points to clubs based on their previous years ladder position. You could also allow it to be based on recruitment rather than each week.
Such as : club who finishes 10th can recruit players worth 80 points , club who finished 9th 75 points etc etc and to retract from player movements clubs don't get any points returned or availability if players leave .
Would only be restrictive on a sliding scale and reduce admin .
Adding to that clubs must play X amount of players each week who played junior football at the club . Through IT the players who played juniors at the club could be sorted and show up in a different color for all to see including opposing clubs . No extra admin during the season and solves multiple problems .
The options put forward to date appear extremely knee jerky with no thought process including the actual long term repercussion or flaws . Sometimes you have to play devils advocate , but you also have to identify the exact problem and ensure it works toward fixing others that are on the radar .

 

[Silver Tongue]

Yes i agree he two could be tackled together and that is what I was intimating earlier. The finer details of a ponts system would need a broader nationwide agreement and understanding but ultimately clubs need to be rewarded for nurturing and playing their own and discouraged from using $$$ as their primary means of success. It has the potential to limit opportunities for players to shop themselves around and clubs from acting complicitly in this behaviour. See the Lachie Collins Rochester/Echuca example..

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Yes i agree he two could be tackled together and that is what I was intimating earlier. The finer details of a ponts system would need a broader nationwide agreement and understanding but ultimately clubs need to be rewarded for nurturing and playing their own and discouraged from using $$$ as their primary means of success. It has the potential to limit opportunities for players to shop themselves around and clubs from acting complicitly in this behaviour. See the Lachie Collins Rochester/Echuca example..

Collins would attract the same points at either club so would still go to where he wants for what ever reason including shopping themselves. Points system would have no impact what so ever. . As for retaining players it is also up to clubs to do more to ensure players are nurtured and want to continue playing . I 'd like to see a expectation put on clubs and penalised if a set percentage of kids who play juniors don't play senior footy of some sought , whether that be at the same club or not . Would also act to prevent some clubs having 35 + kids on their list whilst a neighbouring club has 10.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Collins would attract the same points at either club so would still go to where he wants for what ever reason including shopping themselves. Points system would have no impact what so ever. . As for retaining players it is also up to clubs to do more to ensure players are nurtured and want to continue playing . I 'd like to see a expectation put on clubs and penalised if a set percentage of kids who play juniors don't play senior footy of some sought , whether that be at the same club or not . Would also act to prevent some clubs having 35 + kids on their list whilst a neighbouring club has 10.

Yes a player like Collins would attract the same points and could shop himself around, but under a points system clubs would need to be far more diligent in decisions on recruiting him. It places the onus back on clubs and its no longer simply a question of: 'can we afford him'? More a question of have we got enough juniors/locals playong at our club so allowing us to recruit him under a points system? And given the fact we are paying locals more money to encourage and nurture them, do we want to spend 'overs' on an unproven outsider?

 

[GG Rides Again]

Why not fix both and do it so that it doesn't take a huge amount if $$$'s to administer . Clubs paying $10k each for their league to be administered is absolutely ridiculous , clubs should be looking for that figure to be diminished . If the AFL are looking for comps to be more even why not allocate more points to clubs based on their previous years ladder position. You could also allow it to be based on recruitment rather than each week.
Such as : club who finishes 10th can recruit players worth 80 points , club who finished 9th 75 points etc etc and to retract from player movements clubs don't get any points returned or availability if players leave .
Would only be restrictive on a sliding scale and reduce admin .
Adding to that clubs must play X amount of players each week who played junior football at the club . Through IT the players who played juniors at the club could be sorted and show up in a different color for all to see including opposing clubs . No extra admin during the season and solves multiple problems .
The options put forward to date appear extremely knee jerky with no thought process including the actual long term repercussion or flaws . Sometimes you have to play devils advocate , but you also have to identify the exact problem and ensure it works toward fixing others that are on the radar .

If you work on the above scenario the premier team from previous year which could have taken 4-6 years of building, may lose half their senior side once they finally win one. As such you then make them start from further back from previous year as have to replace what they have lost and also remain under points working on locals cost less than imports. If you lose your Ruck, CHB and FF they won't come cheap so points will be high for these recruits.
I still believe it evens itself out over time and there is too many ways to manipulate a points system.
Leave it as is as I don't think we could ever come up with s system to cover all teams and all scenarios raised. Someone always comes up with a way to step around the rules if they are smart enough. Case in point for Rochy last year Lachie Sirrett. Didn't break any rules so these situations will continue to arise.

 

[Silver Tongue]

If you work on the above scenario the premier team from previous year which could have taken 4-6 years of building, may lose half their senior side once they finally win one. As such you then make them start from further back from previous year as have to replace what they have lost and also remain under points working on locals cost less than imports. If you lose your Ruck, CHB and FF they won't come cheap so points will be high for these recruits.
I still believe it evens itself out over time and there is too many ways to manipulate a points system.
Leave it as is as I don't think we could ever come up with s system to cover all teams and all scenarios raised. Someone always comes up with a way to step around the rules if they are smart enough. Case in point for Rochy last year Lachie Sirrett. Didn't break any rules so these situations will continue to arise.

It's all pointless unless the entire footy nation adopted a points system anyway. A bit like attending an orgy and deciding to become celibate. You watch everyone else play with one another while you play with yourself!

Players would simply go to the league next door.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

If you work on the above scenario the premier team from previous year which could have taken 4-6 years of building, may lose half their senior side once they finally win one. As such you then make them start from further back from previous year as have to replace what they have lost and also remain under points working on locals cost less than imports. If you lose your Ruck, CHB and FF they won't come cheap so points will be high for these recruits.
I still believe it evens itself out over time and there is too many ways to manipulate a points system.
Leave it as is as I don't think we could ever come up with s system to cover all teams and all scenarios raised. Someone always comes up with a way to step around the rules if they are smart enough. Case in point for Rochy last year Lachie Sirrett. Didn't break any rules so these situations will continue to arise.

Every club winning a flag and then going to the bottom and starting again is the ideal situation .

 

[brownsnake]

What stops clubs paying the best kids in the juniors to keep them at the club or clubs chase kids and look after there parents to ensure the best kids come to there club early in there careers. That will make sure the club has more cheap points in the future? Where does that leave the battling kids who play for fun? Clubs will pump everything into developing kids for cheap points in the future but they will only focus on the best kids.......

 

[Silver Tongue]

What stops clubs paying the best kids in the juniors to keep them at the club or clubs chase kids and look after there parents to ensure the best kids come to there club early in there careers. That will make sure the club has more cheap points in the future? Where does that leave the battling kids who play for fun? Clubs will pump everything into developing kids for cheap points in the future but they will only focus on the best kids.......

I imagine that is the idea of a points system Brownsnake. Keep local kids local, rather than what is currently happening.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I imagine that is the idea of a points system Brownsnake. Keep local kids local, rather than what is currently happening.

I think what brown snake is saying that the recruitment, under a points system could. , and apparently does from this that have it , change to be under 18's so that clubs get the best players without affecting their future points tally. In turn their loyal kids of lesser ability don't get a game and stop playing increasing player number shortage. . So in essence there is a bidding war for junior players so they play at a club as a junior , therefore incurring no points later on .
Reduce the qualifying age of what constitutes 'Playing junior football at the club ' and you decrease the age of recruiting .

 

[Silver Tongue]

Yeah fair point Roar but refer to my earlier post that unless it encapsulates all leagues it is pointtless. Players will go elsewhere to play.

 

[brownsnake]

I think what brown snake is saying that the recruitment, under a points system could. , and apparently does from this that have it , change to be under 18's so that clubs get the best players without affecting their future points tally. In turn their loyal kids of lesser ability don't get a game and stop playing increasing player number shortage. . So in essence there is a bidding war for junior players so they play at a club as a junior , therefore incurring no points later on .
Reduce the qualifying age of what constitutes 'Playing junior football at the club ' and you decrease the age of recruiting .

Spot on roar

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Yeah fair point Roar but refer to my earlier post that unless it encapsulates all leagues it is pointtless. Players will go elsewhere to play.

Silver even if it encapsulates all leagues, clubs stalk the better younger players who don't cost them points .

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

What about having the whole junior system ran independently to a degree from clubs. Split into zones with money saved from admin of points system going to coaches (or whatever title) appointed to the zones to oversee juniors in that zone. Kids still play for their clubs but the coaches go club to club providing support and training to club coaches, promoting the game to juniors in their area and keep an eye out for movement of players to try and stop poaching where possible. Seems far more beneficial to get help on the ground than behind a desk.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

What about having the whole junior system ran independently to a degree from clubs. Split into zones with money saved from admin of points system going to coaches (or whatever title) appointed to the zones to oversee juniors in that zone. Kids still play for their clubs but the coaches go club to club providing support and training to club coaches, promoting the game to juniors in their area and keep an eye out for movement of players to try and stop poaching where possible. Seems far more beneficial to get help on the ground than behind a desk.

Kids need to be natured and developed into clubs not taught and encouraged to go from one club to another . Because as they get older they feel no connection nor obligation to remain at a club. .

 

[wouldIlietoyou]

Kids need to be natured and developed into clubs not taught and encouraged to go from one club to another . Because as they get older they feel no connection nor obligation to remain at a club. .

I never suggested they be encouraged to go from club to club Roar.

I meant have an AFL employed zone JDO who is employed to do the following:

Support and one on one advice to club junior coaches especially those new to it.

Promote club football within their zone.

Promote respect (healthy rivalry) between clubs and leagues discouraging poaching young players.

Talk to players making transition to senior football and working with clubs to help that transition more successful numbers wise.

Clubs still running their own JDO programs and promoting their clubs. However sometimes especially district clubs struggle to have experienced people and their junior numbers suffer.

We are screaming out about losing volunteers well junior coaches is one area I see becoming a problem
And it's not one you can resolve via tendering out or other means. You need coaches.