Opinion Greatest sportsman, or team, of all time?

Sep 22, 2010
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In the history of all sports??

That's a very large call to make...

It will seem like a big call for those not aware or with little knowledge of Wilt and naturally there will be debate as the range of sports people over such a long period of time in such a wide range of sports is so wide and diverse but Wilt is the only guy I'd make that statement of and I don't think it's even close. Past or present there is no guy who was in so many categories was elite. Just that height and wingspan, size of hands, but then strength, speed, agility, leaping ability and with that he had the co-ordination and dexterity of a small guy. That combination and totality of everything there just has and likely never will never again be anything like Wilt. The guy was 216cm (7'1 and a bit w/o shoes) and he would in the world in each category I'd imagine feature in the top 0.1 percentile worldwide. What Wilt could do, it's like a story you'd tell your children, he was a physical specimen like no other. It's comic book/video game stuff that he did.

This video while long if interested will give you some idea of exactly how incredible Wilt was:

It's just a shame Wilt isn't a current athlete/sports-person in today's media crazy world because he would be on a pedestal in and of his own.

With Wilt he is one guy who you really need to research to fully understand exactly how freakish he was. There just isn't anyone ever who compares in sporting history.



These are some interesting factoids regarding Wilt that I have accumulated that back up my claim and make his case beyond his legendary basketball numbers which in and of it's own is without equal (imagine a guy 5cm taller than Aaron Sandilands doing this!):

440 yards = 402.336m (49sec)

880 yards = 804.672m (1min.58.3sec)

100m = 10.9sec

53 feet = 16.1544m (shot put)

High jump = 6 feet, 6.75 inches (2.00025m)

Standing vertical = 48 inches (1.21.82m)

Broad Jump = Long Jump – 22 feet = 6.7056m

500 pound bench press (226.796kg). – Some say almost 500lbs. Others say 550. Wilt says “right around 600lbs.”

7’1 without shoes. 275lbs start of career, 315lbs end of career. Standing reach of 9’7, wingspan of 7’9.

170lbs triceps extension (77.1107kg)

Dislocated a guys shoulder from a clean – all ball block. (Confirmed)

Dunks so hard that he broke a guys toe. (Confirmed)

Dunks so hard it goes back through the basket. (Confirmed)

Threw a two handed chest past to a target with an opposition player holding onto it. (Confirmed).
 
Sep 22, 2010
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Having already "been around for most of these"....Wilt Chamberlain the greatest ever physical specimen....hmmm...I think Ali might just have him covered as the most impressive and influential sportsman of our time.

You might find this interesting but Muhammed Ali backed out of a proposed fight with Wilt. It is believed Ali's agent got scared and pulled Ali out.

You should also be aware that the NBA before the 80s was considered no big deal and had little viewership/support given the fact that black players were dominating the league through the 60s/70s and that generally wasn't well received by the white community of the time. It was only in the 80s when the Magic/Bird rivalry started that the NBA really got a substantial national following in the US and internationally not long after.
And as such with Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell playing in the 60s they don't get the respect/acknowledgement they deserve.
 

Ricky90

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You might find this interesting but Muhammed Ali backed out of a proposed fight with Wilt. It is believed Ali's agent got scared and pulled Ali out.

You should also be aware that the NBA before the 80s was considered no big deal and had little viewership/support given the fact that black players were dominating the league through the 60s/70s and that generally wasn't well received by the white community of the time. It was only in the 80s when the Magic/Bird rivalry started that the NBA really got a substantial national following in the US and internationally not long after.
And as such with Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell playing in the 60s they don't get the respect/acknowledgement they deserve.
Because of the wingspan you mention, Wilt would have been a huge chance.

And perhaps that's the reason that Wilt doesn't get the respect he 'deserves' because he was huge with a massive leap, in an era when no one was huge. He was a statwhore, to put it bluntly. A bit like Swanny, in all honesty.

In any case, I would've thought you'd say something like going back to see the Bulls of 95/96 in their 72-10 season. Best ever.

I'd say Ali, Jordan, Tiger Woods and Kelly Slater are up there with best sportspeople ever. Lance Armstrong before the drug cheating became public. And that runner from Ethiopia, Haile Gebrselassie.

You can pretty much take your pick.

Edit - How could I forget Roger Federer. I'm not a huge tennis fan, but yep, he's worth a mention.
 
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Sep 22, 2010
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Because of the wingspan you mention, Wilt would have been a huge chance.

And perhaps that's the reason that Wilt doesn't get the respect he 'deserves' because he was huge with a massive leap, in an era when no one was huge. He was a statwhore, to put it bluntly. A bit like Swanny, in all honesty.

In any case, I would've thought you'd say something like going back to see the Bulls of 95/96 in their 72-10 season. Best ever.

I'd say Ali, Jordan, Tiger Woods and Kelly Slater are up there with best sportspeople ever. Lance Armstrong before the drug cheating became public. And that runner from Ethiopia, Haile Gebrselassie.

You can pretty much take your pick.

Edit - How could I forget Roger Federer. I'm not a huge tennis fan, but yep, he's worth a mention.

I'd consider Bill Russell's Boston Celtics as the best "team" ever in basketball anyway (the 90s Bulls I'd rate second). As the most dominant basketball player ever Wilt is my guy. With Russell's Celtics he won 11 championships in 13 years! Insane stuff! And he did when guys like Wilt, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West were a part of the game, all of whom I'd regard as being among the 10 greatest basketballers historically.

My comment regarding Wilt is purely that he is the greatest even athletic specimen (and a guy who could play and dominate at pretty much any ball sport and a guy who tests elite in more physical categories than anyone ever will have). In terms of dominating a particular sport for a long time and being without equal I'm not claiming that with Wilt as there are the likes of Tiger Woods, Kelly Slater, Tony Hawk et al who individually go down as guys where in their sport there isn't even a discussion as to who the greatest ever was. Whereas in basketball most fans will say Michael Jordan is the greatest or Magic Johnson or whoever they like, or if they're from the 50/60s you might even have other responding Bill Russell as that ultimate winner in basketball.
 
Sep 26, 2012
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Wilt Chamberlian is the best basketball player ever, I would go back to watch him if I could. I can't say athlete as I simply ignore most sports outside of AFL, basketball and NFL.
The numbers he put up were insane, average 50 Pts a game for an entire season.. That will never happen again. They say the best there ever was hasn't been born yet, but in terms of basketball I think Wilt is the best there ever will be. MJ is the most famous basketball player, Wilt is the best.
The argument that he wouldn't be as good today as he was 50 years ago is rubbish, sure he'd probably be managed better and play less but in terms of impact he'd be incredibly dominant. The Centers of today pale in comparison to the dominant Centers of the past. He would monster every Center that currently plays today.

Oh and to keep it 'Collingwood'.. I would travel all the way back to 2010.. Because I wanna live through that again, once wasn't enough
 

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If we're talking just Collingwood given I was around for the Nathan Buckley era (though I'd happily watch more of the greatest footballer to play our game) I'd go back to the 1927-1930 years. It won't be the same quality of game but none the less it's a level of winning that has never again occurred and naturally would be interesting to see the greats of the day - The Coventry's and the Collier's among others.

If you're talking sporting history overall I'd love to go back to see Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game (NBA - basketball) during the 1962/1963 season. Just seeing the greatest ever physical specimen in the history of all sports at the height of his powers would really be something.
If Lebron was playing NBA back then he'd have better numbers than Wilt. Whole different game now. Wilt may be a better physical specimen but Lebron would wipe floors with defenders back in the day!
Jordan > Lebron though
 
Sep 26, 2012
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If Lebron was playing NBA back then he'd have better numbers than Wilt. Whole different game now. Wilt may be a better physical specimen but Lebron would wipe floors with defenders back in the day!
Jordan > Lebron though
There is no way LeBron would have better numbers than Wilt, you have to pretty much double his stats to get Wilts numbers
 

SApies

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There is no way LeBron would have better numbers than Wilt, you have to pretty much double his stats to get Wilts numbers
Look at the physical difference in players from Wilts era to now. Lebron is up against monsters and still manages big numbers. If he could do what he does now against guys Wilt was up against, he'd have better numbers IMO.
 
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Look at the physical difference in players from Wilts era to now. Lebron is up against monsters and still manages big numbers. If he could do what he does now against guys Wilt was up against, he'd have better numbers IMO.
I don't wanna sound like a Lebron hater, which I'm not given he plays for my team lol but Lebrons body completey shut down in the playoffs last year when the aircon stopped working... How is he meant to play 48 mins a night over 82 games back in the 1960's when he wouldn't get access to all the medical help he does today and put up Wilts type numbers
 

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LOls. Basketball is such a contentious sport. This is what used to happen on our supercoach blog for years. I'd be spinning some football related topic and within a short space of time my brother and his mates would turn it to some intense debate about which NBA star/team, past/present had more of what than whom and then they'd be off of days arguing about that.
 
Sep 22, 2010
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Wilt Chamberlian is the best basketball player ever, I would go back to watch him if I could. I can't say athlete as I simply ignore most sports outside of AFL, basketball and NFL.
The numbers he put up were insane, average 50 Pts a game for an entire season.. That will never happen again. They say the best there ever was hasn't been born yet, but in terms of basketball I think Wilt is the best there ever will be. MJ is the most famous basketball player, Wilt is the best.
The argument that he wouldn't be as good today as he was 50 years ago is rubbish, sure he'd probably be managed better and play less but in terms of impact he'd be incredibly dominant. The Centers of today pale in comparison to the dominant Centers of the past. He would monster every Center that currently plays today.

Oh and to keep it 'Collingwood'.. I would travel all the way back to 2010.. Because I wanna live through that again, once wasn't enough

I agree Wilt would be just as dominant today.

The interesting thing is in 60s guys were measured without their shoes and 7'1 was Wilt's height without shoes. Today guys are measured with shoes which adds slightly to their height. Interesting to note is Dwight Howard although listed at 6'11 is actually without shoes 6'8.

The basketball players of today are generally slightly bigger, taller and more athletic at each position and have better ball handling ability and shooting range but the team basketball, low post scoring ability of the bigs and the quality of offensive sets were better in the past with the star power also on a greater level and less diluted with about a third of the teams in the 60s as there are today. And with that you'd be playing the likes of Russell, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West more often than you otherwise would.

On Michael I feel today his numbers would be more dominant today because of the less physical game that gets you to the line easier, no hand-checking and generally softer defences with also a slightly watered down league quality with guys who are more athletic but less skilled playing today. So Michael for me if he wanted could have 35 points per game every year if he wanted to and be in the best few as a perimeter defender while he is at it.

On Wilt though and the same with Bill Russell. It has been predicted that both averaged around 8 blocks most seasons and it is believed that both in the primes got up to around 12 blocks per game, with Wilt believed to have had 25/26 blocks in a single NBA game (not that blocks were recorded then).

Wilt could today have a stat line of 35ppg, 15rpg and 5bpg and do that every year. Bigs just can't go with him inside and Wilt would bully Shaq, such was the extremity of his strength. Doesn't matter if you're strong, long or good defensively. Wilt just can't be stopped and can do what he wants. He'll just finger roll it every time, bank it in off the backboard on a fadeaway jumper which he could consistently knock down.
As a 50 year old he was actually involved with the Lakers training camp and working with their bigs, and some of the Lakers of the time challenging Wilt to a game, and Wilt didn't let any of them get a shot up just blocking everything.
He really was a special individual of talent unlike no other.

If Lebron was playing NBA back then he'd have better numbers than Wilt. Whole different game now. Wilt may be a better physical specimen but Lebron would wipe floors with defenders back in the day!
Jordan > Lebron though

LeBron's number wouldn't even be as good as that of Elgin Baylor. Elgin Baylor in the same season Wilt had his 50/25 season actually had a 38.3 point 18.6 rebound season. LeBron in any era can't do that. That and the 60s was a stronger era than today. LeBron in the 60s because guys weren't soft as the players are today would have been forced to play 40+ minutes per game and could have had a 30 point, 10 rebound average over a season, but that would be the upper limits of what he would be able to do with the more physical game that it was at the time and without a 3pt line at that.

LeBron overall would be thoroughly outclassed by Wilt and look the second rate physical specimen as ridiculous as that sounds for today's great physical specimen.

The one good point that I agree on regarding the 60s is defences were poor at the time. Offenses and offensive systems were better and more intricate than todays iso heavy game, but guys on defense didn't have the understandings of offensive player tendencies and didn't have an understanding of if a guy preferred a specific hand to force them the other way. LeBron as a perimeter player would actually probably struggle because the lanes were more packed and as a result his shooting percentage would be greatly reduced as he would not get to the rim as easily, particularly if he faced Wilt or Russell who were the two greatest shot blockers in basketball history *not that blocks were recorded then (which he would frequently with less than 1/3 of the teams there are today).

To pull it back to footy for a minute though, I've often thought, perhaps in a similar vein to the Russell/Chamberlain discussion, that Buckley was a better player than Hird and Voss. It's a contentious argument to put with non-Pie fans cause most of them just hate Bucks. But I would argue that Bucks played to a consistent level in relatively poor teams for most of his career while the other two were always rubbing shoulders with platoons of other champion players, especially Voss.

I strongly agree that Buckley was the greater footballer than Hird/Voss. Buckley is the greatest footballer to ever play the game. It just annoys the heck of out me that he never gets appreciated as being amongst even the best few to ever lace up the boots.

Buckley's disposal numbers were elite in the relatively lower disposal generation he played. But the thing that made Nathan special is the kicking ability (no guy has ever to my knowledge had as many long kicks in a season) but then also his kicking efficiency given the sheer rate of his kicks being long were absolutely ridiculous. No player in AFL history has ever had more plays run through him and had a burden so heavy that he throughout the vast majority of his career had to endure.

Voss and Hird are great players in their own rights but Nathan due to his superior long but efficient kick and overall disposal per game numbers in my mind is in another category.

Voss was the greater contested ball winner of that group and the best captain of the three and Hird relatively the most dangerous in the front half, but for me if you're looking at the totality of game, the dominance of game, the impact on the result and how much they had to do/did on the football field, Nathan is in a league of his own.

This would be a good thread some time KM - best team ever, in the pure sense of the term. Must put it on the shelf for another slow period!

There probably somewhere in some sport has been a sporting team with a run even more dominant than Bill Russell's Celtics, but certainly in NBA history they're my pick.

I should in this discussion as a Bulls fan be saying the 90s Bulls were the greatest team in NBA history, and Michael certainly had great teams with the 6 essentially from 6 shots (with the 1 and a bit years retired in the middle) and I should also be calling Michael the greatest to ever play in the NBA, but I just don't believe it accurate with Wilt better and the 60s Celtics such an incredible team doing it consistently for so long, in a fashion that was before their time and the best form of team play the game has seen with Bill Russell particularly unselfish as a guy were everything he did was for winning and to make the guys around him better.
 
Sep 22, 2010
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Yep. You'd have to go back and be around for 4 flags in a row.

Also, Wilt Chamberlain? Please people, a 7 foot black guy playing in a league of short white men was always going to dominate. If you took Michael Jordan back into Wilt's era, he'd score 400 points a game.

You can pretty much write off any "great" before the 70's in the NBA if we're being honest. The NBA as we now know it didn't really start until the 80's.

Sounds like you've been watching too much ESPN as they're like yourself unaware of the NBA before 1980 with Magic and Bird who wrongly get spoken about as top 4 players all time.

Michael would be great in any era as Wilt would be. In the NBA greats of any era can be great in any era. Michael could have been 5ppg better and 3-4rpg better in the 60s but Wilt in any generation would still be clearly better than MJ.

Wilt in his later years was told not to score and just play defence as Russell did. Refs because of the strength of Wilt chose not to call guys fouling him , from the games I've observed (I've found tape for around 20 of Wilt's games) this seemed to be 80% of the time would be a conservative guess. He also consistently played within his-self with an intent not to embarrass/hurt guys, and only on the rare occasions that he was challenged with guys saying "you can't do this" he'd go out and do it - whether that's scoring 100, getting 50 rebounds (55 for Wilt v Russell), averaging 50 and 25 over a season, averaging 48.5 minutes per game over a season, leading the league in assists as a center! You'd have media people tell him late career that he couldn't score and then he'd go out there and drop 50 for them and then go back to focusing on defense/rebounding.

On the 60s as an era you couldn't be more wrong in your assessment and your comments show a complete lack of knowledge for the era and quality of players that were in the game. Wilt, Russell, Oscar, Baylor and West are best 10 all time players and Bob Pettit deserves recognition as a top 20 all time guy. Then you had Walt Bellamy who was another great centre and they're just the guys who were dominant in that great 1962/1963 season. Wilt also played against Kareem, Dave Cowans, Nate Archibald, Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, Dave Bing, Lenny Wilkins, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, Walt Frazier, Rick Barry, Billy Cunningham, Nate Thurmond, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Dave DeBusschere, Willis Reed, Hal Greer, Jerry Lucas, Paul Arizin, Bill Sharman, Dolph Schayes and Bob Cousy. Those guys are all deemed as being part of the 50 greatest players of all time on the NBA's 50th anniversary All-Time Team. So Wilt wasn't playing against scrubs. He was playing against better quality bigs than are in the NBA today and bigs at that who actually could score in the low post and had low post moves, it was a generation where nearly all teams had great bigs. Now you can name the great bigs in the NBA on one hand, which isn't so great when there are 30 teams.

If you're so sure Wilt would not be great today you might want to consider these numbers:

Wilt was 7'1 without shoes. Given the measurements today are with shoes in the NBA Wilt would be among the tallest in today's NBA also.

440 yards = 402.336m (49sec)

880 yards = 804.672m (1min.58.3sec)

100m = 10.9sec

53 feet = 16.1544m (shot put)

High jump = 6 feet, 6.75 inches (2.00025m)

Standing vertical = 48 inches (1.21.82m)

Broad Jump = Long Jump – 22 feet = 6.7056m

500 pound bench press (226.796kg). – Some say almost 500lbs. Others say 550. Wilt says “right around 600lbs.”

7’1 without shoes. 275lbs start of career, 315lbs end of career. Standing reach of 9’7, wingspan of 7’9.

170lbs triceps extension (77.1107kg)

Dislocated a guys shoulder from a clean – all ball block. (Confirmed)

Dunks so hard that he broke a guys toe. (Confirmed)

Dunks so hard it goes back through the basket. (Confirmed)

Threw a two handed chest past to a target with an opposition player holding onto it. (Confirmed).

-- I challenge you to find any basketball player who could do this or even more than 2-3 of these things better.
 
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Sounds like you've been watching too much ESPN as they're like yourself unaware of the NBA before 1980 with Magic and Bird who wrongly get spoken about as top 4 players all time.

Michael would be great in any era as Wilt would be. In the NBA greats of any era can be great in any era. Michael could have been 5ppg better and 3-4rpg better in the 60s but Wilt in any generation would still be clearly better than MJ.

Wilt in his later years was told not to score and just play defence as Russell did. Refs because of the strength of Wilt chose not to call guys fouling him , from the games I've observed (I've found tape for around 20 of Wilt's games) this seemed to be 80% of the time would be a conservative guess. He also consistently played within his-self with an intent not to embarrass/hurt guys, and only on the rare occasions that he was challenged with guys saying "you can't do this" he'd go out and do it - whether that's scoring 100, getting 50 rebounds (55 for Wilt v Russell), averaging 50 and 25 over a season, averaging 48.5 minutes per game over a season, leading the league in assists as a center! You'd have media people tell him late career that he couldn't score and then he'd go out there and drop 50 for them and then go back to focusing on defense/rebounding.

On the 60s as an era you couldn't be more wrong in your assessment and your comments show a complete lack of knowledge for the era and quality of players that were in the game. Wilt, Russell, Oscar, Baylor and West are best 10 all time players and Bob Pettit deserves recognition as a top 20 all time guy. Then you had Walt Bellamy who was another great centre and they're just the guys who were dominant in that great 1962/1963 season. Wilt also played against Kareem, Dave Cowans, Nate Archibald, Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, Dave Bing, Lenny Wilkins, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, Walt Frazier, Rick Barry, Billy Cunningham, Nate Thurmond, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Dave DeBusschere, Willis Reed, Hal Greer, Jerry Lucas, Paul Arizin, Bill Sharman, Dolph Schayes and Bob Cousy. Those guys are all deemed as being part of the 50 greatest players of all time on the NBA's 50th anniversary All-Time Team. So Wilt wasn't playing against scrubs. He was playing against better quality bigs than are in the NBA today and bigs at that who actually could score in the low post and had low post moves, it was a generation where nearly all teams had great bigs. Now you can name the great bigs in the NBA on one hand, which isn't so great when there are 30 teams.

If you're so sure Wilt would not be great today you might want to consider these numbers:

Wilt was 7'1 without shoes. Given the measurements today are with shoes in the NBA Wilt would be among the tallest in today's NBA also.

440 yards = 402.336m (49sec)

880 yards = 804.672m (1min.58.3sec)

100m = 10.9sec

53 feet = 16.1544m (shot put)

High jump = 6 feet, 6.75 inches (2.00025m)

Standing vertical = 48 inches (1.21.82m)

Broad Jump = Long Jump – 22 feet = 6.7056m

500 pound bench press (226.796kg). – Some say almost 500lbs. Others say 550. Wilt says “right around 600lbs.”

7’1 without shoes. 275lbs start of career, 315lbs end of career. Standing reach of 9’7, wingspan of 7’9.

170lbs triceps extension (77.1107kg)

Dislocated a guys shoulder from a clean – all ball block. (Confirmed)

Dunks so hard that he broke a guys toe. (Confirmed)

Dunks so hard it goes back through the basket. (Confirmed)

Threw a two handed chest past to a target with an opposition player holding onto it. (Confirmed).

-- I challenge you to find any basketball player who could do this or even more than 2-3 of these things better.

In all honesty, you're arguing with the wrong guy abut this. Sometimes I'm far too stubborn to budge on my opinion on certain topics. I don't give older athletes much credit in ANY sport, let alone sports I have any semblance of interest in. Today's versions of almost every sport are faster, harder, stronger. Most of theose older athletes either wouldn't survive today's versions, or just wouldn't be as dominant.

I'm not saying Wilt would be terrible in today's NBA, I just don't think he'd be considered a "great" had he started in today's NBA.

Jordan on the other hand, would. Hell, he played in CBF mode for the Wizards when he was arguably too old to be playing NBA and was still killing it. It would be scary to have a time machine and take MJ back to Wilt's time and see the decimation take place.

But as I said, I'll pay you the respect to let you know you're banging your head against a brick wall on this one. I"m the same with footy players. Most players that are deemed "average" by today's standard would most likely dominate older eras if you had a time machine. They're just so much faster, stronger and more tactically inclined in today's game.

There's onyl ONE sport that is an exception to this rule, Soccer. Older soccer players would be just as good in today's era also. Soccer is 2 things. Fitness and skill. So any fit and skillful player from the 20s, 30s, 40's etc etc would still be fit and skillful today.
 
Sep 22, 2010
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In all honesty, you're arguing with the wrong guy abut this. Sometimes I'm far too stubborn to budge on my opinion on certain topics. I don't give older athletes much credit in ANY sport, let alone sports I have any semblance of interest in. Today's versions of almost every sport are faster, harder, stronger. Most of theose older athletes either wouldn't survive today's versions, or just wouldn't be as dominant.

I'm not saying Wilt would be terrible in today's NBA, I just don't think he'd be considered a "great" had he started in today's NBA.

Jordan on the other hand, would. Hell, he played in CBF mode for the Wizards when he was arguably too old to be playing NBA and was still killing it. It would be scary to have a time machine and take MJ back to Wilt's time and see the decimation take place.

But as I said, I'll pay you the respect to let you know you're banging your head against a brick wall on this one. I"m the same with footy players. Most players that are deemed "average" by today's standard would most likely dominate older eras if you had a time machine. They're just so much faster, stronger and more tactically inclined in today's game.

There's onyl ONE sport that is an exception to this rule, Soccer. Older soccer players would be just as good in today's era also. Soccer is 2 things. Fitness and skill. So any fit and skillful player from the 20s, 30s, 40's etc etc would still be fit and skillful today.

There isn't anyone in the game remotely comparable to Wilt by position. Dwight Howard is a once was and then you've got DeMarcus Cousins who is skilled and big but an innefficient turnover machine who is allergic to playing defence.

You are right regarding guys in the most part being more athletic today - that is the way the game has gone, but to the detriment of the game. Now the NBA is all about 1v1 play (as developed through AAU and high school basketball) and as such guys have developed their athletic attributes, dribbling ability and shooting range with everyone wanting to play out on the perimeter but the result of all this has been a dramatic drop off in the quality of play with the game today substantially worse than the 80s and 90s, and also below the standard of the 60s and 70s with players not bothering to learn the fundamentals of the game and more interested in dunking and shooting 3s.

What is little known is that athletically the bigs of the past is that a number of those guys athletically don't have anyone who since have demonstrated that same speed, agility or leaping ability. With guys like Wilt, Russell and Darryl Dawkins who came into the picture in the 70s historically of all big men the most athletic inside players to play the game. And that period during the 60s and 70s was when the most great bigs were a part of the game and it was an era where team play was at it's best, and low post scoring and low post skills were at its best as well as low post defence, rim protection and rebounding with the freakish things guys were doing at the time.
It's just a lack of appreciation by people who haven't bothered to watch these guys play in detail that feel the players of today while more flashy and watchable if you're going to watch full games, are better which couldn't be further from the truth, with the last 15 years of basketball overall probably the worst we've seen since pre 1960 before the great players started to enter the game.

I understand your perspective in the sense that the game has changes with the rules is completely different and generally the overall improved physical profiles of the players today are better, but dig deeper and research these NBA players of the past in greater depth and you'll find that the NBA is another sport where you should put great stock into what the players of the past achieved, because the greats of the past are greater than the greats of today, and that includes players who played before 1980.

One story regarding Wilt that should resonate with you if you respect the players of the 80s.
This is a famous story by ex NBA coaching great Larry Brown:
On a summer day in the early 1980s, when Brown was coaching at UCLA, Chamberlain showed up at Pauley Pavilion to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. "Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt. "So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one [of Johnson's] shots get to the rim." Chamberlain would have been in his mid-40s at the time, and he remained in top physical shape until recently.

*you might also like to watch the Wilt youtube clip I posted on page 1 if you still don't completely believe his unequalled greatness in the NBA game.
 

Ricky90

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The interesting thing is in 60s guys were measured without their shoes and 7'1 was Wilt's height without shoes. Today guys are measured with shoes which adds slightly to their height. Interesting to note is Dwight Howard although listed at 6'11 is actually without shoes 6'8.
I'm sorry but that's a crock of s**t. Does Dwight play in high heels? Does he also go on shopping sprees with Sarah Jessica Parker?

3 inches is almost 8 centimeters. Just think about that for a second.

I would love to see the shoe that has a 3 inch heel. In terms of ankle injuries, it's beneficial to keep your heel as close to the hardwood as possible. I just flat out can't believe this and won't until I see proof. Photo or video proof.
 
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I'm sorry but that's a crock of s**t. Does Dwight play in high heels? Does he also go on shopping sprees with Sarah Jessica Parker?

3 inches is almost 8 centimeters. Just think about that for a second.

I would love to see the shoe that has a 3 inch heel. In terms of ankle injuries, it's beneficial to keep your heel as close to the hardwood as possible. I just flat out can't believe this and won't until I see proof. Photo or video proof.

I initially got 6'8 from Sam Smith from Bulls.com and Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith from ESPN first take who have consistently referred to Howard as 6'8 without shoes but for some links regarding Howards height which is actually 6'9 without shoes (see below links):
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34789/kevin-love-and-height-liars-in-shoes
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34651/dwight-howard-superman-darwin-finch
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/A-Historical-Look-at-the-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurements-2912/

Many of the NBA list measurements these past 30 years have been incorrect. It's like with Charles Barkley who was actually 6'4/6'5 depending on who you ask, see links:
http://www.biography.com/people/charles-barkley-9542575#synopsis
http://www.celebheights.com/s/Charles-Barkley-2722.html

These links might be a good insight into wrongly listing height:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/sports/basketball/22score.html?_r=0
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/34789/kevin-love-and-height-liars-in-shoes

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So don't be fooled by current day measurements. They're all taken as being with shoes and at other times completely bluffed with the intent to make guys seem more draftable/worth more when times comes around when it's contract extension/free agent time.

It's only pre 1980s where the measurements were actually done without shoes.
 
Sep 26, 2012
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I'm sorry but that's a crock of s**t. Does Dwight play in high heels? Does he also go on shopping sprees with Sarah Jessica Parker?

3 inches is almost 8 centimeters. Just think about that for a second.

I would love to see the shoe that has a 3 inch heel. In terms of ankle injuries, it's beneficial to keep your heel as close to the hardwood as possible. I just flat out can't believe this and won't until I see proof. Photo or video proof.
Dwight has said he is 6'9, if you look at pictures you can easily see that Durant is a lot taller than him

Also for the record it's known that Kevin Love is listed at 6'10 but is really 6'8.
 

BlackWhiteBlood

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How much has rule change's, tech and the professional era effected the ability to gauge the 'greatest' basketballer of all time over the past 40 or what ever years. As I know little about this sport. ie Chamberlain v Jordon v Le-Bron.

As a comparison in cricket Sir Don was light years ahead of those that played in the same era as him, and if anything in the 30's and 40's playing rules and conditions where in favor of the bowlers. When Bradman played there where un-covered pitches, no fielding restrictions, grounds were bigger (no ropes), outfields in worse conditions, less tech in the bats and probably most of all a much lower level of protection especially no helmets. And yet his average is still 50%+ better then the next best and nearly 100% better then what we consider a good bat today.
 
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