Greatest test XI from each nation

[The Falcon Strike]

In your opinion.
I do not rate him in best three I seen but his stats look better.
For mine, Lillee, Hadlee, Wasim Akram and Warne clearly better and I'd rather Holding and Imran Khan too.
I rate Ambrose and McGrath on a par as very very good tall bowlers and very accurate with annoying length but I rate all these others bowlers better.

Just on this - we often hear that batting is easier now. Roped fields, better bats in particular, flatter wickets etc etc

If batting is easier and easier, ergo bowling becomes harder and harder.

Someone like McGrath may not have had the obvious weapons as Lillee, Akram, Marshall et al

But bowling is about taking wickets and conceding few runs.

McGrath in a time of easier batting, has a superior record - he is well in the conversation and claiming others as clearly better I believe is wrong.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Looking through a lot of lists - seems to be a lot of people choosing 6 bats.

With Miller and Gilly available - I'd be picking 4 bowlers plus Miller. Bradman bats for 2 anyway.

I think for the exercise you'd have to pick a relatively neutral pitch - perhaps a MCG or Lords and then pick the best team to win the game.

 

[The_Reaper]

My Australian XI

1. Bill Ponsford
2. Greg Chappell
3. Don Bradman*
4. Ricky Ponting
5. Allan Border
6. Adam Gilchrist+
7. Alan Davidson
8. Shane Warne
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Glenn McGrath

 

[danger_to_walker]

Why would Greg Chappell open?

A quick crack at a couple:
Australian XI
1. Victor Trumper
2. Arthur Morris
3. Donald Bradman
4. Ricky Ponting
5. Greg Chappell
6. Keith Miller
7. Adam Gilchrist +
8. Shane Warne
9. Bill O'Reilly
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath

West Indies XI
1. Gordon Greenidge
2. Clyde Walcott +
3. George Headley
4. Vivian Richards
5. Brian Lara
6. Garfield Sobers
7. Everton Weekes
8. Malcolm Marshall
9. Joel Garner
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Michael Holding

South African XI
1. Barry Richards
2. Graeme Smith
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse
6. Mike Procter
7. Mark Boucher
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Dale Steyn
10. Hugh Tayfield
11. Alan Donald

(Maybe too many bowling options for the Saffas, they wouldn't have to make many runs though)

 

[QAFL_Fan]

No Hayden? or is that because cramming the team with the modern 'dynasty' era players not reflect well on our history?

.

No it's because he spent more than half his career as the 3rd or 4th best opener of his own era and playing shield cricket.

Sure he has a great record, but only after the likes of Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, akram etc retired and he faced some of the weakest attacks in history for a 5 year window where he scored 80% of his test runs.

As soon as Steyn, Freddy, Anderson, Morkel etc came on the scene, he went back to being a limp dicked flat track bully.

At the end of the day, Taylor and Slater were better players than him by a mile, and no stat will ever convince me otherwise.

 

[danger_to_walker]

While I agree that Hayden's stats are inflated by playing against relatively weak bowling attacks, he only faced Steyn and Morkel in his final Test series, and the only time Jimmy Anderson bowled to him in Test cricket was during the 5-0 drubbing we gave the Poms in 2006-07.

 

[The_Reaper]

Why would Greg Chappell open?


)

Because I want five bowlers and all of Bradman, Ponting, Chappell and Border.

And if you can bat at 3 you can open the batting.

 

[footyfan1978]

Just on this - we often hear that batting is easier now. Roped fields, better bats in particular, flatter wickets etc etc

If batting is easier and easier, ergo bowling becomes harder and harder.

Someone like McGrath may not have had the obvious weapons as Lillee, Akram, Marshall et al

But bowling is about taking wickets and conceding few runs.

McGrath in a time of easier batting, has a superior record - he is well in the conversation and claiming others as clearly better I believe is wrong.

"We often hear......"

I think you need to realize what you should type there is about what you hear... You cannot speak for others. Not sure why you are throwing so much of what you hear as being actual reality.
I'm not sure you can simply say batting is easier without taking into account they also may get out easier. I tend to think batsmen get more value out of their shots but I also tend to think they do not value their wickets as much and easier to get out. Test cricket in general has been influenced by more nations playing it and more of them playing it in a one day style of approach. Sides are scoring quicker in Tests. This is all we can really say. Whether they are facing weaker sides in general because the game includes more nations that previously were not Test nations is a question to pose also.

I would say batsmen in general (not all) are easier to get out as they are not willing to be patient and bat for long in general because of the habits that may be a by-product of so much one day cricket. Overall I do not draw any clear conclusions you have seemed to arrive at in your mind but there are differences in way games are played.
I can only rate players on what I watched and how I judged the value of players that competed against.

I can certainly say someone is clearly better if I watch enough of it and form that view over time.
For mine they were clearly better on what they could do against various players. Ultimately it is all a view. I find it funny when others say you cannot say something and think there is some right or wrong about. These are all just opinions. There is no right or wrong in any of that.

Looking through a lot of lists - seems to be a lot of people choosing 6 bats.

With Miller and Gilly available - I'd be picking 4 bowlers plus Miller. Bradman bats for 2 anyway.

I think for the exercise you'd have to pick a relatively neutral pitch - perhaps a MCG or Lords and then pick the best team to win the game.

Fair enough idea but I remember thinking when I picked this side long ago that the bowling is good enough to get 20 wickets without feeling the need to have a specialist 5th bowler. With the side I picked there is very handy bowling from Border and Chappell to help out rest the strike bowlers.
Border actually took 13 wickets in one match so if those guys are already in the eleven having 5 other bowlers is probably overkill.

Lillee, McGrath, Miller, Warne and the two part timers should be enough to back yourself to take 20 wickets.

Ponsford
Morris
Bradman
G Chappell
Ponting
Border
Gilchrist (feel unsure about this as really want a better keeper but later order batting was dynamite)
Miller
Warne
Lillee
McGrath (unsure whether he really in despite his great figures but not sure enough about Ray Lindwall from earlier era so McGrath gets it by default)


Lillee
McGrath
Miller
Warne
G Chappell
Border
is the bowling options

 

[danger_to_walker]

Because I want five bowlers and all of Bradman, Ponting, Chappell and Border.

And if you can bat at 3 you can open the batting.

Fair call, then it becomes a debate similar to All Australian selection... do you select the best players in their position, or pick the best 11 players? Anyway, not looking to spark a debate, was just curious.

 

[masai]

Bert Oldfield ?.

Bill Woodfull ?.

Lindwall over McGrath.

 

[the_interloper]

Anyone not picking McGrath to take the new cod for Australia's all time XI is kidding themselves imo, better bowler than Warne imo. Could get great bats out with regularity, no one has ever been more accurate, did it in all conditions, you can't really fault him. He wasn't as exciting to watch as a Lillee or the super quicks but he has no peers in quicks for Australia I reckon.

I'll go

1. Hayden
2. Ponsford
3. Bradman
4. Ponting
5. Chappellg
6. Miller
7. Gilchrist
8. Warne
9. Lillee
10. McGrath
11. O'Reilly

 

[The Passenger]

Outside of the openers the Australian team pretty much picks itself for mine. McGrath, Lillee and Miller are the clear three best quicks I reckon and the fact Miller can bat means you can play two spinners with Warne and O'Reilly taking the cake there. Grimmett a bit back in third. Allan Davidson and Ray Lindwall definitely have a case but I have them #4 and #5 on Aussie quicks, and though both can hold a bat, neither would be considered genuine all rounders. They are good #8 batsmen.

Gilly easy choise as keeper, and the fact Bradman basically doubles as two batsmen means you can bat Gilly 6 and Miller 7.

The presence of Gilchrist and Miller allows this team so much flexibility. Even though Gilly had a much superior test batting record you could probably swap their positions as Miller generally batted 5 in tests, and Gilly 7. Miller under achieved a bit as a test batsmen with an average of 36. Averaged nearly 60 in shield cricket and ~53 in first class matches that weren't tests.

For mine Ponting and G Chappell stand out as the two best middle orders batsmen. A few stiff to miss out, particularly S Waugh and Border but there is just a little bridge there from the first two blokes.

???
???
Bradman
Ponting
Chappell
Gilchrist
Miller
Warne
O'Reilly
Lillee
McGrath

As for the openers.. You can throw any 2 of about 10 blokes and it's really neither here nor there (Ponsford, Hayden, Woodfull, Simpson, Morris, Trumper, Taylor and a few others)