Strategy Griff to the back line?

[Stylo]

This is the whole thing with Griffiths.
He's having a great season?

I think some are seduced by him because he looks so good when exhibiting the positive aspects of his game. Problem is they're not on display frequently or consistently enough.

As I said in the post match pies thread, if Griff had produced what Vickery did on the weekend we'd all be absolutely giddy about it. Because it was Vickery the response was more muted.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Don't agree rod sorry, jack can't play defence and can't play mid no where near as affective as he can up forward IMO, Griffo isn't s**t or usless down back its just wasted when he could be playing up forward IMO.

Jack is a ten times better play since he moved away from just playing FF.
I think what amazes me is that people seem to think we are "missing out" on Griffiths great impact up forward if he's not there.
There is no impact.
I'm also looking from a team view.
I thought the forward line functioned really well Sunday.
I also thought we were a tall short down back.
So for example Griffiths comes back this week?
Do you go Jack-Ty-Griff and hope that pans out?
It's a massive contrast to Jack-Ty-Bean.
Or do you leave your options open and have Griff playing as a tall back who can go forward if one of Ty or Bean is off or the combination isn't working.
I like the idea of the four in the team eventually but that will require flexibility and versatility.
Griffiths brings that to the table.
I'm surprised his biggest fans pigeon hole him because that makes him very limited.

 

[Stylo]

These are relative discussions.

Send Griff back to keep Ty in and forward...we get 80% (??) Griff, 100% Ty, 2 guys to help Ivan and flick the Bean (apologies)

Put Griff forward...we get 100% Griff, one guy to support Ivan & 100% of a growing Bean.

To keep Ty, assuming that Griff & Ty just can't function forward together, is to request Griff take one for the team...has Ty done enough for his preferred posi to be the default position? And does this statement say to Griff doesn't matter how good you might become, we are always going to rate you 2nd to Ty?

No, it's just that Griff has the ability to play down back where Ty does not. They'll produce similar output as forwards (though I think Ty just shades him in that area). Playing Griff up back, you still get his marking and kicking ability and good work around the ground, just not his goalkicking, which is the least imposing aspect of his game, and which Ty and McBean can comfortably replace.

To all those saying Griff is s**t in the backline, do you think if we'd played him forward in 2012/2013 he'd have played any better? The guy had zero confidence, was a shell of a footballer. He started his career up forward remember, and was mostly ineffective, so had a stint up back in an attempt to revitalise him. At the time it didn't look successful but IMO had he kept playing up forward he wouldn't have been any better. So in my view, he's no more a natural forward than a defender.

Of course he could still swing up forward if needed, I'm just spitballing a way of getting all our most talented talls into the side.

 

[wart101]

Jack is a ten times better play since he moved away from just playing FF.
I think what amazes me is that people seem to think we are "missing out" on Griffiths great impact up forward if he's not there.
There is no impact.
I'm also looking from a team view.
I thought the forward line functioned really well Sunday.
I also thought we were a tall short down back.
So for example Griffiths comes back this week?
Do you go Jack-Ty-Griff and hope that pans out?
It's a massive contrast to Jack-Ty-Bean.
Or do you leave your options open and have Griff playing as a tall back who can go forward if one of Ty or Bean is off or the combination isn't working.
I like the idea of the four in the team eventually but that will require flexibility and versatility.
Griffiths brings that to the table.
I'm surprised his biggest fans pigeon hole him because that makes him very limited.

On the road jack, Griffo stays up forward and roams like jack, i wouldn't play him as a dedicated backman or an isolated forward.

 

[Barnzy]

As I said in the post match pies thread, if Griff had produced what Vickery did on the weekend we'd all be absolutely giddy about it. Because it was Vickery the response was more muted.

So were you giddy about Griffith's 12 disposals, 6 marks, 3 goals vs Carlton or his 19 disposals, 10 marks, 2 goals vs Brisbane?

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

On the road jack, Griffo stays up forward and roams like jack, i wouldn't play him as a dedicated backman or an isolated forward.

But what's the best strategy eventually for Jack,Ty,Griff and Mcbean?
I just thought the way it worked on Sunday makes things very interesting.

 

[Stylo]

So were you giddy about his 12 disposals, 6 marks, 3 goals vs Carlton or his 19 disposals, 10 marks, 2 goals vs Brisbane?

Yep. Like everyone else.

But why couldn't he get 15+ disposals and 10 marks from the back line? His goal scoring, as I've said, is the least imposing part of his game.

Let me clarify, I'm a big fan of Griff and want him in the side. I just think we should utilise his flexibility to benefit the team overall, not just Griff's Coleman tally.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Yep. Like everyone else.

But why couldn't he get 15+ disposals and 10 marks from the back line? His goal scoring, as I've said, is the least imposing part of his game.

Let me clarify, I'm a big fan of Griff and want him in the side. I just think we should utilise his flexibility to benefit the team overall, not just Griff's Coleman tally.

This is my view.
I care about Richmond.
I don't care about Ben Griffiths or Tyrone Vickery.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Disagree. I think the improvement in his game has come more so from physical and mental development than from positional change.

Astbury can replace Chaplin long term, don't particularly like him up forward. Not fast enough.

I still think Griff is better as a forward, who can roam up the ground.
Has the physical attributes to play at both ends, so I can see what you are saying.
However, I think he has found his place in the 22 as a forward.
Will work well with Vickery as well, as he won't have to ruck.
Don't particularly like Griff in the ruck.

 

[Tiger7374]

On the road jack, Griffo stays up forward and roams like jack, i wouldn't play him as a dedicated backman or an isolated forward.

It's a good discussion to have I agree.

We have Elton (spent 2 years reprogramming him in the magoos) and Astbury and Griff as probable/possible back liners.

We have Ty, Bean, Griff and Astbury as probable/possible forward liners.

Both Griff and Ty have seduced and frustrated us with intensity...Astbury I think goes hard all the time, he's problem is pace, Elton and Bean need exposure to see if they have appetite.

I can't stand either Griff or Ty "loafing"...shits me. Both need to attack the game...and if we wish to multi use Griff, then we have to multi use Ty...that means he gives Ivan a damn decent cutout and takes on the responsibility of inheriting first ruck in time.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Another question I have for people, and I'm being serious when I ask this.
Is David Astbury best 22?

 

[Tiger7374]

Another question I have for people, and I'm being serious when I ask this.
Is David Astbury best 22?

We got this year to find out.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

We got this year to find out.

I'm 50/50 on this one.
I realize he is coming back from injury, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage.
I think we move the ball a lot better without him though.
Takes his time when he has the ball, which contributes to our major problem in my opinion.

 

[Tiger7374]

Griff has richo-like skills. I can see him roaming a wing/centre square.

Ivan would be great resting in the square. JR can move a little out if Ty is rucking.

Elton and Astbury are likely the focus on improvement to our back line/cover for Rance if he goes native.

 

[CUBS]

I liked him providing a genuine marking option out of defense late last year. I'd prefer him primarily as a forward who can roam around the ground.

It was good to get that win on the weekend with Elton and McBean in the line up because Griffiths and Astbury are so prone to injury, nice to have some serviceable replacements at the ready (with big Reece still to come down the line!) . Building some KP depth finally..

 

[Tiger7374]

Here's a related strategic issue.

All these tall blokes trip over each other as they seek clear space in the forward line. We seem to meander thru the centre and provide the opposition time to flood our backline...we arm wrestle scoring shots. The marking skills of our big blokes are squandered...hence out need for a crumber and defensive forward line pressure.

If we pull the trigger a little earlier, we will have space...and yes the ball is less contested, more free flowing. Build the "lock in" wall at the centre line, not the HF line.

 

[Mr Magic]

He's experienced there, can kick over a press, can take a grab, has the athleticism to keep up with the quickest talls and we've seen him blanket opposition forwards before (Roughead in 2012 I believe?). Since then he's gained strength and confidence.

I'm mainly considering this as an avenue to keeping McBean in the side, who I think added a lot against the Pies and will benefit from maximum senior game time.

Drop Elton (who has plenty of time) for Griff and run a forward line of Jack and McBean with a rotating Vickery.

Thoughts?

McBean is not good enough yet IMO but can easily be re-called as he develops along with injuries etc..

Needs more beef on the bone still

 

[Mr Magic]

These are relative discussions.

Send Griff back to keep Ty in and forward...we get 80% (??) Griff, 100% Ty, 2 guys to help Ivan and flick the Bean (apologies)

Put Griff forward...we get 100% Griff, one guy to support Ivan & 100% of a growing Bean.

To keep Ty, assuming that Griff & Ty just can't function forward together, is to request Griff take one for the team...has Ty done enough for his preferred posi to be the default position? And does this statement say to Griff doesn't matter how good you might become, we are always going to rate you 2nd to Ty?

Ty plays more ruck and Griff plays more CHF IMO

 

[Mr Magic]

Jack has shown he can play many different roles.
So can Rance.
Griffiths hasn't really shown he can do anything really. Bits and pieces.
He certainly can't be choosy.

The team functioned much better up forward on the weekend and he might not have a choice.
Is he useless in defence?
I don't think he is, but if you think he is well then he has limited options and will probably play VFL this week if he can only play forward.

I thought it was pretty clear on the weekend Rance is primarily a backman.

JR many different roles???

Am I watching a different game?

 

[TJTIGER]

I don't know if he's still growing into the forward roll but to me he just looks more comfortable and dangerous in a similar role to Blitzarvs (or however you spell it, from Geelong) a roaming ruck/wingman/Ruck rover that can go to where he's needed, but can give Ivvy a chop out when needed ?

Would a triple rotation work with Ivvy, Griff, & Ty playing the roaming ruck to forward role ???

 

[Mr Magic]

I think some are seduced by him because he looks so good when exhibiting the positive aspects of his game. Problem is they're not on display frequently or consistently enough.

As I said in the post match pies thread, if Griff had produced what Vickery did on the weekend we'd all be absolutely giddy about it. Because it was Vickery the response was more muted.

Vickery did not produce much on the weekend. He kicked some straight goals and was handy up the ground. Took some marks in space. It was just far better than previous output as his body gets stronger and more robust!!

Pretty much supported the argument he is a ruck who can kick goals with straight kicking and is not a permanent forward.

No brainer really, Ty needs to play more ruck.. ABC really!


If anything Mcbean and Ty more likely to be ineffective together in the forward line

 

[TJTIGER]

Just as side note....We'd have to be one of the most fortunate clubs ATM with our problem of where to play all of our young up & coming talls...(As maxwell Smart would say).... And Loving it !!!!

 

[TheProwler]

God I hate these discussions. Its like lets play morris forward just so we can get him in the side. Let Griff settle in as our second fwd rotating through the ruck and leave Astbury back down there if anyone.

 

[Mr Magic]

Just as side note....We'd have to be one of the most fortunate clubs ATM with our problem of where to play all of our young up & coming talls..... (As maxwell Smart would say).... And Loving it !!!!

none of them are superstars though. It is not like we are salivating over a J Hogan or anything tbh

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

Our forward line was the best it's been all year.
Lids and Cotch played a big part in that, but the combination of Jack, Bean and TV was also good.
Bean worked harder than TV or Griff usually do.
TV did some good things in front of goal and further up the ground.

The combination worked. It's taken 7 weeks for us to finally have a forward line that can kick a winning score so don't change it...except of course Sheds coming in.

Griff...well he either plays back or plays in the twos for mine.

PS...yeah...and Morris can play in the backs or piss off. It's failed Dimma...stop flogging a dead horse.