List Mgmt. GWS Giants Academy News & Discussion

[Giant Strides]

I can see both McCarthy and Stewart leaving at the end of the year. Stewart because he is becoming too good to leave in the NEAFL but not good enough to push out Cameron or Patton. Sproule is too good a local prospect to pass up in my opinion. Not to mention that KPFs take time to develop.

I can also see us losing Ahern, he is reminding me of JOR and is surplus to our needs given that we have Steele, Barrett, Hopper and Kennedy who are all locals

Unfortunately, I tend to agree with your assessment.

It would be a shame about Stewart, he's shown talent and is a good backup to have, plus seems a good guy. But someone will offer him more than GWS will be willing to match, and the club has a tendency to help guys in looking to reach their potential. Sunshine, unless he has a massive change of heart, seems certain to go. Only concern for me is if we lose both in 2016, that's a lot of backup forwards gone. (And I don't want to even entertain the thought of Adam Tomlinson added to that list, although he's not really played in that goal-kicking KPF role.) I know we've still got Lobb and Finlayson, and if Sproule is as good as touted he would be above Stewart in the pecking order in a few years. We're still abnormal in our list demographic due to being a recent start-up club. Not complaining, but it does have its own set of complications.

Agree about Ahern too. I think he's going to be a solid midfielder for someone, but given that we want to promote NSW/Academy players, have to think that you're right regarding the 4 players named. Which makes me wonder if we were right to choose him in the first place. Goddard and Lever were two other options linked to GWS's picks, and given where our tall defensive stocks are (and they too take time to develop) I can't help thinking one of them might have been a better option. Always easier to use hindsight and criticise, but I would have been happy with two talls in that draft. (I know I bang on about tall defenders a lot, but I still think it's the biggest area where GWS is light on.)

 

[ManOfClay]

One thing about mutch is, and I don't hold this opinion, is that people will complain about his academy status.

He lives at Gol Gol, which is a 10 minute drive from Mildura at the most. Hardly isolated. He also goes to school in Bendigo.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Unfortunately, I tend to agree with your assessment.

Shame about Stewart, he's shown talent and is a good backup to have, plus seems a good guy. But someone will offer him more than GWS will be willing to match, and the club has a tendency to help guys in looking to reach their potential. Sunshine, unless he has a massive change of heart, seems certain to go. Only concern for me is if we lose both in 2016, that's a lot of backup forwards gone. (And I don't want to even entertain the thought of Adam Tomlinson added to that list, although he's not really played in that goal-kicking KPF role.) I know we've still got Lobb and Finlayson, and if Sproule is as good as touted he would be above Stewart in the pecking order in a few years. We're still abnormal in our list demographic due to being a recent start-up club. Not complaining, but it does have its own set of complications.

Agree about Ahern too. I think he's going to be a solid midfielder for someone, but given that we want to promote NSW/Academy players, have to think that you're right regarding the 4 players named. Which makes me wonder if we were right to choose him in the first place. Goddard and Lever were two other options linked to GWS's picks, and given where our tall defensive stocks are (and they too take time to develop) I can't help thinking one of them might have been a better option. Always easier to use hindsight and criticise, but I would have been happy with two talls in that draft. (I know I bang on about tall defenders a lot, but I still think it's the biggest area where GWS is light on.)

I would say that Ahern was selected he was seen as a replacement for O'Rourke and given that we had taken Marchbank it would seem overkill to take another KPD.

 

[coniglio_number1]

One thing about mutch is, and I don't hold this opinion, is that people will complain about his academy status.

He lives at Gol Gol, which is a 10 minute drive from Mildura at the most. Hardly isolated. He also goes to school in Bendigo.

He has a choice about wether he wants to be in the academy or not. It isn't conscripted national service

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

One thing about mutch is, and I don't hold this opinion, is that people will complain about his academy status.

He lives at Gol Gol, which is a 10 minute drive from Mildura at the most. Hardly isolated. He also goes to school in Bendigo.

And how much of the academy time and work has already done over the last couple of years that has got him to Bendigo/TAC cup in the first place?

 

[Giant Strides]

One thing about mutch is, and I don't hold this opinion, is that people will complain about his academy status.

He lives at Gol Gol, which is a 10 minute drive from Mildura at the most. Hardly isolated. He also goes to school in Bendigo.

I understand the angst about the academies, and about the Riverina district for GWS's academy. But a lot of people inflate the historical level of drafting from the Riverina - over the period of the draft it is simply not comparable to areas in Victoria (for example, compare it to each TAC Cup team history of draftees). There's no doubt for mine that the injection of GWS academy coaching into the area has improved the area's development of players.

And look at the angst given the Swans for drafting Isaac Heeney and Callum Mills - both from the Hunter/Newcastle and both stolen away from the rugby codes. Nothing to do with being close to traditional AFL territory. So people will complain about everything and anything. Having said that, I accept that at some point some adjustment of the system will need to be made to avoid the system giving too much advantage.

 

[Giant Strides]

I would say that Ahern was selected he was seen as a replacement for O'Rourke and given that we had taken Marchbank it would seem overkill to take another KPD.

I concur with the view of Ahern taking the O'Rourke role. I think there was a comment from management at the time about wanting an inside/outside mid, x-factor and KPD as priorities, which seems to match the 3 top 10 picks we took. But given that Steele was a known gain, and we'd just lost both Frost and Jaksch, there was talk in the media about possibly two KPDs being selected. (I just tend to think that was reasonable.) Anyway, enough of that. Happy to see plenty of kids developing enough to put their hands up for the draft, and a local KPD being highly rated.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I concur with the view of Ahern taking the O'Rourke role.

What? Playing for Box Hill?

 

[Giant Strides]

What? Playing for Box Hill?

Now now. Let's not be like that!

 

[Bogan Juniors]

https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/n3/video/-/watch/30575052/pathway-to-the-big-league/

This was on our local news in the week.
Looking after the Greater west.

 

[Giant Strides]

https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/n3/video/-/watch/30575052/pathway-to-the-big-league/

This was on our local news in the week.
Looking after the Greater west.

 

[Determinant]

https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/n3/video/-/watch/30575052/pathway-to-the-big-league/

This was on our local news in the week.
Looking after the Greater west.

More than just a little awesome

 

[ManOfClay]

And how much of the academy time and work has already done over the last couple of years that has got him to Bendigo/TAC cup in the first place?

Not much from what I've read into it. He's played footy in the same league and in the same club system as guys like Richie Vandenberg and Mark alvey before him like any kid born and raised south of the river

 

[ManOfClay]

He has a choice about wether he wants to be in the academy or not. It isn't conscripted national service

Which is absolutely not what I was saying

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/n3/video/-/watch/30575052/pathway-to-the-big-league/

This was on our local news in the week.
Looking after the Greater west.

But, but, but, our name is Greater Western SYDNEY - not greater western NSW, not Central Western NSW, these academies are a disgrace. They should just go into the draft for everyone. They're in NSW, what do they need coaching for? How dare they think that one day they might make it to the highest level. These academies are giving false hope to thousands of kids and an unfair advantage to one club. They need to be shut. SHUT DOWN I TELLS YA!!!!!





PS: I'm surprised it's taken this long. Great move.

 

[Giant Strides]

Not much from what I've read into it. He's played footy in the same league and in the same club system as guys like Richie Vandenberg and Mark alvey before him like any kid born and raised south of the river

I don't want to get into an argument with you MoC, when you've come on here to give us some personal observation of a kid who's in our academy system. As I said before, I see the two sides of the argument, and in the case of those in the Riverina, they often participate in the northern Victorian competitions or even (such as Hopper) move to a Victorian school to further their footy aspirations.

However, I look at past happenings like the NSW scholarship system. Look at Taylor Walker, another Broken Hill kid. He was put on a NSW scholarship by Adelaide FC when that was the mechanism for promoting NSW talent. How much effort did Adelaide put into him to snare him outside the draft, and how much of an outcry was there over that? And - without knowing the details - I presume if Kobe has signed up to the academy program (and presumably over multiple years) that he's getting something positive out of it. I think the academy advertises that it provides 2.5 hours per week of coaching, plus the extra camps during holidays etc. While you say he's doing the same as the Victorian kids you've mentioned, is he? Or has the extra academy coaching been what's got him up to the level where he has unlocked his talent to compete with them?

Unfortunately, there's no 'sliding doors' ability to be able to compare the development of these kids with academy coaching and without it. Proponents of the system think that it's added a lot (evidence: look at the past 29 years of drafting versus last year and what's in the pipeline this year); opponents think the development would have happened naturally (evidence: point to Danihers, Wayne Carey, Paul Kelly etc; counterpoint: who's been drafted post 1990 from Riverina?) So, we are consigned to the continual debate. Which I don't mind as long as it stays a rational discussion.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Not much from what I've read into it. He's played footy in the same league and in the same club system as guys like Richie Vandenberg and Mark alvey before him like any kid born and raised south of the river

From looking at a map, it's not south of the river, which puts him in our zone. And the academy has very little to do with what team he plays his regular footy for. The Academy, from about the age of 12/13 provides extra mid week coaching and skills sessions etc, etc. and the kid themselves, has to sign up. If he has signed up, gone to the extra sessions, worked with guys like Jason Saddington, then it really doesn't matter what club he plays for on the weekend - he's an academy player that we've put time and effort into, and get first dibs on.

If on the other hand he hasn't signed up and gone to all those extra sessions and worked with our people, then we have no claim on him just because he is born or lives in NSW. You have to sign up to the academy and work with the academy to become an academy pick. It's not just a residential thing.

This is the misconception with Jacob Hopper - oh he played in Ballarat, how is he academy? Well he was academy because from the age of 12 (long before he moved to Ballarat to finish school and play TAC cup) he was in the academy learning his craft from the likes of Saddington and McVeigh and our other coaches. And importantly, continued to do some academy stuff while in Mexico.

So, unless you know what he was doing every second Wednesday night for the last couple of years, you don't know how much academy involvement he's had (neither do I by the way). Has absolutely nothing to do with where he plays on Saturday. And it's not just training, there's other stuff that happens with the academy, I just used that as the most obvious, ongoing, regular activity that the academy does.

 

[ManOfClay]

Right off the bat I said I didn't hold that opinion. He's born in your zone so under the rules he is able to join your academy.

Like many I probably see the academy as more for kids who are isolated from any major football centre and program. Which mutch isn't.

 

[Giant Strides]

Right off the bat I said I didn't hold that opinion. He's born in your zone so under the rules he is able to join your academy.

Like many I probably see the academy as more for kids who are isolated from any major football centre and program. Which mutch isn't.

Sure, I acknowledge that you said the first sentence up front and I'm not meaning to attack you, just wanting to discuss academy stuff (this is the GWS thread for it!).

I would disagree with the view that the academy is for isolated centres. In fact, I'd argue that the greater Sydney metropolitan area is the greatest target for AFL House to develop - greatest population to draw talent from, and alongside that, the opportunity to draw family and friends into AFL and tap that greater market. Canberra too, although obviously a little more traditionally AFL-oriented. So, academy success is when there's talent being drafted from everywhere in both NSW & Queensland; but the law of averages says that it should be in line with population demographics. Which is why the Riverina's disproportionate drafting at the moment is the cause for angst, because they have a higher base than the rest of NSW and Queensland. If AFL House had excluded the Riverina from the GWS zone (and how much gets excluded? does Canberra, which is a GWS satellite home base?), GWS would have just gotten on with developing the areas it was given. It just would have taken longer to see results, but they will come (as seen with Heeney & Mills from the Hunter/Newcastle) and in the meantime GWS would be recruiting Victorian, WA & SA kids with their high draft picks.

 

[_GT_]

The other thing is AFL and GWS would have been very keen for the Academy to have early success too. Hopefully it provides extra motivation to western Sydney, central western NSW and Canberra talent to see kids make it onto AFL lists via the academy.

 

[Giant Strides]

The other thing is AFL and GWS would have been very keen for the Academy to have early success too. Hopefully it provides extra motivation to western Sydney, central western NSW and Canberra talent to see kids make it onto AFL lists via the academy.

Absolutely agree.

I'd love to know the discussions that happened back in 2009-2010 to understand how deeply these things were considered and accepted. In the end, the academies are not just a tight ring around Brisbane, Gold Coast, eastern Sydney and western Sydney. They're across the whole of each of the two northern states, and you have to believe that the issue of the Riverina must have been discussed. I reckon it would have been accepted that Riverina would be a bit of a leg-up to GWS, and the reason you've identified I think would be one factor. Easier to piggyback on early success. I'd also reckon they identified the NSW Riverina as underperforming what could be produced. I wonder if they even thought that GWS's initial entry concession players might start drifting away, and this would be a way of backfilling them. In the event, I think last year the academy crop became a push factor rather than a backfill action.

 

[grundog49]

Hey guys, I've created a video for people who haven't seen Setterfield or Macreadie at their best.

 

[Giant Strides]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-01-23/jys-american-diary-speed-dating-cross-training-and-nice-ice

Couple of interesting snippets about two of the GWS academy boys on the US trip:

Spotlight on: Everyone was getting around Kobe Mutch on the track today and encouraging him to use his voice more out on the field. He's got some awesome skills on both feet and is a great runner, and I thought he trained really well.

Spotlight on: Zach Sproule is a happy bloke all the time but he kept everyone entertained at the ice hockey with how excited he was to be there. He's been great on tour with his enthusiasm every day even when some of the other guys are getting tired, so he's a good person to have around the group.

 

[Matchu]

Victorian clubs AFL academies to be established for aspiring multicultural and indigenous players

Richmond: Goulburn Murray, Bendigo, Sunraysia, North Central (Bendigo Pioneers and Murray Bushrangers)

What does this mean for the GWS's academy/zone? Will southern NSW talent be inclined to move over the border because they'll be zoned to Richmond?

 

[Scully2Folau]

Victorian clubs AFL academies to be established for aspiring multicultural and indigenous players


What does this mean for the GWS's academy/zone? Will southern NSW talent be inclined to move over the border because they'll be zoned to Richmond?

I remember seeing re: Lachie Weller/GC that players need to have lived in the state for 5 years to be eligible to be nominated as an academy selection.

Would parents move interstate when their kid's 13yo so they can possibly play for Richmond instead of GWS?