Opinion Has the year been a success?

[_Mike_]

NOTE TO ALL..

This is a measuring what YOU think the output of the year has been.. Leave the arguing over other posters opinions out of the discussion and dont derail the thread.

You dont agree, take it to the McCartney coaching thread - that's what its there for.

 

[Mofra]

At least we found out Jake Stringer is NOT a backman, looked more lost in the Gold Coast game than I did at the Queen Victoria Markets as an 8 year old in 1992 and their game plan to expose him was a success.

He was never meant to be a backman - it was part of his development plan, and admits as much in one of his interviews.
Start the year forward
Goes back at AFL level to experience what makes backmen uncomfortable
Goes back to VFL level to play in the midfield to develop his ability in traffic/get run itno the legs

Upon his return to AFL level he was a much better player.

 

[littlenails]

The year has been an absolute failure.

Failed to reach expectations
1. Should have improved but didn't improve enough
Liam Jones (biggest disappointment)
Michael Talia
Fletcher Roberts
Jason Tutt
Lachie Hunter
Jason Johannisen
Matthew Fuller

2. Went backwards or did not further improve
Tom Liberatore
Ryan Griffen
Will Minson
Shaun Higgins
Jarrad Grant
Luke Dahlhaus
Tom Williams (crashed out)
Adam Cooney

3. Should have retired earlier or been delisted last year.
Useless list management. Success drafting Bontempelli, otherwise an abject failure.
Just clogging up the list and preventing us from getting a good player who might help us win a premiership.
That's 7 new players we could have got. Might have snagged a new Chris Grant or Dale Morris. Opportunities lost.
Mark Austin
Alex Greenwood
Lin Jong
Daniel Giansiracusa
Daniel Pearce
Christian Howard
Matthew Boyd

Did better than I thought
Fletcher Roberts (I would have delisted him last year)
Easton Wood (has improved)
Liam Picken

I expected Macrae to do well but Bontempelli is the real find.

Useless coaching
Our forward line is always a shambles. Think back to the days when we didn't have a power forward, when we had the likes of Robbins and Johnson. Our forward line was open, we kicked in excess of 100 points on numerous occassions.

The coach seems to lack passion. His cool calm and collected look when we are getting a hiding gives the impression that he does not care.

When in tight situations we are forever trying short slick handpasses that often get intercepted, rather than the quick kick out of the pack. But there are lots more problems, but this post is already to long for most readers.

 

[Easty]

Off-field has been a resounding success I feel. I was a bit cynical of Gordon when he first came back but he has been outstanding.

On-field I think it's a pass. Think the excitement of our 1st-3rd year players and what they have shown outshines the failure of the 4th-6th year players not taking the next step. But it was disappointing to not improve on our W/L ratio.

 

[Easty]

The year has been an absolute failure.

Failed to reach expectations
1. Should have improved but didn't improve enough
Liam Jones (biggest disappointment)
Michael Talia
Fletcher Roberts
Jason Tutt
Lachie Hunter
Jason Johannisen
Matthew Fuller

2. Went backwards or did not further improve
Tom Liberatore
Ryan Griffen
Will Minson
Shaun Higgins
Jarrad Grant
Luke Dahlhaus
Tom Williams (crashed out)
Adam Cooney

When in tight situations we are forever trying short slick handpasses that often get intercepted, rather than the quick kick out of the pack. But there are lots more problems, but this post is already to long for most readers.

Highlighted the harsh, as well as your last statement which is just flat out wrong. We should be trying to handpass our way out of trouble because if you bomb it long aimlessly in today's game 9/10 it'll come back with interest.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

CyclopsRules I'm curious to see the median losing margin in both 2013 and 2014. I have a hunch that the difference may be more extreme than the mean.

 

[dogwatch]

Has the year been a success?

As various people have said or implied it depends what you are measuring. It also depends a bit on your expectations. If we had finished where Adelaide finishes we would probably say a success, but Adelaide themselves will be saying a fail. The OP didn't specify what we were measuring or what the benchmarks might be, so for much of the thread so far we have been comparing apples and oranges.

Anyway here's my opinion on the various dimensions of our season:

ONFIELD
On-field performance/match results: FAIL
Ladder position: FAIL
Go back to our pre-season threads and you will probably find most people expected around 10-11 wins and about 10-12th position on ladder.

SUPPORT
Attendances: FAIL
Membership: narrow FAIL
Cheer squad and banners: PASS
I agree with Mattdougie that we need to be hitting near record membership every year just to keep up with AFL averages. You can say that our numbers are low because of our poor onfield results which may well be true but that's just a reason, not an excuse. It's still a fail.

PLAYER DEVELOPMENT AND MAINTENANCE
1st and 2nd year players: PASS
3rd-5th year players: probable FAIL
Older players: FAIL
There's no doubt our junior players are the big ray of hope but have we got enough? I'm concerned about our depth of quality. There have been a few shining lights among older players like Wood and Morris but too many have declined. Minson and Griffen are well off the AA standard they set in 2013 (perhaps due to injury).

VFL TEAM: PASS - an emphatic success, whether we win a flag or not. Great for supporters, club spirit, player bonding and hopefully player development.

COACHING AND FOOTBALL OPS:
Match day coaching: probable FAIL (not as bad as some make out though)
Skills coaching: FAIL - too many recurrent problems like kick-ins, spread, leading patterns, clearances
Skills: FAIL - handballs, kicking efficiency, marking etc are all inferior to top 8 clubs
Game style: FAIL- some good signs but too many lapses to old behaviours and we played too many abysmal quarters which cost us games
Match Committee: FAIL - pending reasons for selection patterns and structure (still no sign of any reasons) we are all bewildered by MC
Drafting and list management: solid PASS - Bonty a highlight, Fuller a flop (so far), lots of important contract extensions completed
Team spirit: PASS - as far as I can see it's good
Injury management: possible FAIL - it's hard to escape the conclusion that Roughy, Minson, Cooney and Griffen were playing injured when perhaps they should have been fixed up or at least given more rehab time. Bad luck with Wallis, Smith, Grant, Roughy, Dickson, etc but no worse than average injury toll.

FINANCE AND MANAGEMENT
Finance: too early to say, wait for annual report
Communications/PR: PASS but some concerns about medical reporting and weird MC selection policy. Some VFL match broadcasts like Richmond's would be good.
President: PASS - a great and forceful personality but I'm worried that he's too much a one man show - is anyone else supporting him?
Board: no idea so I guess that's a PASS
CEO: PASS - Garlo could always do more but I reckon he's been pretty good
AFL Relations and media: FAIL - I want us to rattle more cages. A special mention to Gordon for banging the equalisation drum ... but we haven't seen any concrete results yet.
Club Development: narrow PASS due to the VUWO progress and VFL team, but still questions over long term debt and Edgewater

OVERALL: FAIL

Am I happy with our year? NO
Have there been some rays of hope?: YES, for sure
Am I optimistic for 2015? : YES, definitely - I think we will be close to a top 8 finish.
Am I too impatient: maybe - Macca would say so.

 

[_Mike_]

Im about on par with DW purely for the reasons that at the start of the year a pass mark for me was around 10 wins and sitting around 8-12th on the ladder at the end.

Negatives

- There were games we really should of won
- match day coaching still concerns me with the amount of time it can take to change the plan and address the immediate issues
- we're lacking goal kicking power due to not having a bedded down KPF and relying on 3rd talls to pick up the slack
- many of our senior players just havent been up to scratch
- far too much reliance on the midfield to carry the load
- playing a lot of stop gaps at the moment

The positives
- some good development is happening at the individual player level, but do we want to be a team of good individuals?\
- some previous whipping boys stepping up - Wood etc
- VFL side, say no more
- Bonts, Hrovat, Macrae (overall pretty good), Stringer

 

[David Schwarz]

Pros:

• Less mindless fade outs
• The kids are going to be monsters in the not too distant future
• We're going to win our 10th VFA premiership
• Really took it up to a few sides who would consider themselves far beyond us
• We're only one or two KPP's away from being a really shored up unit

Cons:

• Mindless fade outs...
• Lost a handful of close games that really could have put us on the verge of the finals bracket
• The old heads seem to be deteriorating at a rate of knots - particularly in the area of disposal
• We desperately need one or two KPP's...
• Team selection job seems to have been passed onto someone who either likes lotteries or drinks a lot, or both
• The "McCartney thread" still exists
• That banner
• Making lists

 

[Martyn_30_]

You can only really know whether this year was a success or failure in hindsight. Anything less than a premiership is ultimately a failure of a season but in terms of how successful this year was to the rebuild will be shown by the key position players and whether this year was a development year or they didn't live up to expectations. If 5 years from now Jones, Talia and Roberts are all clear best 22 players than this year was in fact a success.

 

[Proffessor]

In sport, the biggest mistake anyone can make is to not try their best. We have not tried our best to succeed yet again this season, and not surprisingly the year has been a failure.

The fact that a few of our recent early draft picks have displayed some genuine talent and potential should be expected, and it certainly doesn't offset the overall poor performance of the team which is clearly reflected in our lowly ladder position.

It is worth noting that our ladder position of 14th (at the moment) is above last year's finishing position of 15th. However, this small advance appears to have resulted more from the 15th ranked team (who actually beat us) having a tougher draw, rather than our own relative improvement.

Our more senior players, who have performed amazingly well for the majority of the last 3 seasons, have started to show the strain of carrying a ridiculous level of responsibility for the team's performance along with the added disincentive of having no prospect of team success.

Our skill level, playing style/tactics, team selection and list management all remain areas of serious concern, and with the current senior coach expected to remain in place there is no reason to expect these areas to improve next season.

I also think the performance and impact of the VFL team has also been massively overestimated on this forum. People seem to have conveniently forgotten that during our affiliation with Williamstown (and even Werribee before them), they were regularly positioned towards the upper end of the ladder. We may have a little more control over 'our' VFL team now but we also have to pay more for the privilege. I'm still to be 100% convinced that it has been a smart move for the club.

Considering the level of talent at the club, our 'kind' fixture, and the fact that we have probably spent more on our football department than ever before, we have seriously underachieved in 2014.

 

[paul scholes]

The positive is the young guys are steering the ship.
Unlike last season when really it was the senior guys who dragged us over the line .
I expected 9 10 wins, so it's disappointing in that regard, but we need more drafting to be honest.
We still have to many list cloggers for my liking

 

[JJHunter]

CyclopsRules I'm curious to see the median losing margin in both 2013 and 2014. I have a hunch that the difference may be more extreme than the mean.

FYI - Assuming we win Sunday...

Average Losing Margin 2013 = 36.64
Average Losing Margin 2014 = 35.5

Median Losing Margin 2013 = 33
Median Losing Margin 2014 = 33.5

Fair to say very little difference.
Probably going to surprise some.

ivan rassmussen Ive been able to get ahold of quarters won.
Ill publish these with the other stats come Monday.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

FYI - Assuming we win Sunday...

Average Losing Margin 2013 = 36.64
Average Losing Margin 2014 = 35.5

Median Losing Margin 2013 = 33
Median Losing Margin 2014 = 33.5

Fair to say very little difference.
Probably going to surprise some.

ivan rassmussen Ive been able to get ahold of quarters won.
Ill publish these with the other stats come Monday.

Wow, that's indeed surprising. Thanks.

 

[fronkalicious]

Overall on-field performance/results has been a balls up this year. No question at all. No progress there.

 

[JJHunter]

Wow, that's indeed surprising. Thanks.

I thought like you there would be a difference.
People will be surprised with most stats I think

Will be interested to see if they change opinions of some posters.
Shall I post in a new thread or this one come Monday ?

 

[lachy]

I thought like you there would be a difference.
People will be surprised with most stats I think

Will be interested to see if they change opinions of some posters.
Shall I post in a new thread or this one come Monday ?

Shows proof that whilst individuals improved this year the team itself did not, which must be addressed next season.

A thread with all the stats after the end of the season would be great

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I thought like you there would be a difference.
People will be surprised with most stats I think

Will be interested to see if they change opinions of some posters.
Shall I post in a new thread or this one come Monday ?

A few have mentioned interest in a dedicated stats thread - maybe you could get it started with your stats and then it can develop into a more general discussion where people post the stats they find.

I normally type up a summary of interesting CD statistics in January or so so it'd be nice to have a thread dedicated to musings such as these.

 

[LondonBulldog]

I'll keep it quick...

Biggest win team : Depth to the team. I believe up to 5 to 7 fringe players could come in and out of our side each week without making much of a difference. Long term this is what you need and all the best teams have this.

Biggest win players : Bonts, Stringer, McCrae, Libba, Dalhause, Murphy

Biggest loss Team : Still a mile behind playing a modern brand of footy which results in continued success.

Biggest loss players : Griffen, Cooney, Minson, Jones, Roughead

Coaching : Have to say fail overall. Not enough progression and development of players like Jones.

Drafting including rookies : Fail, Bonts maybe Honeychurch wins, fail in Fuller when a few KPP still available. Too much faith in existing talls.

 

[LondonBulldog]

To further add I would like to see more spending on recruiting. I much prefer 4 more part time recruiters over the next retired Geelong player as an assistant coach.
We are still making simple errors which are internal laughed at by opposition recruiters (straight from the horses mouth). Obviously easier said in hindsight.
Wright should be the number 1 goal this year!!!! I know the club are keen but they will need to deal to get him.

 

[JJHunter]

A few have mentioned interest in a dedicated stats thread - maybe you could get it started with your stats and then it can develop into a more general discussion where people post the stats they find.

I normally type up a summary of interesting CD statistics in January or so so it'd be nice to have a thread dedicated to musings such as these.

Just a few rankings I found...

 

[ivan rassmussen]

ivan rassmussen Ive been able to get ahold of quarters won.
Ill publish these with the other stats come Monday.

Thanks Cyclops, look forward to seeing them.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

In sport, the biggest mistake anyone can make is to not try their best. We have not tried our best to succeed yet again this season, and not surprisingly the year has been a failure.

The fact that a few of our recent early draft picks have displayed some genuine talent and potential should be expected, and it certainly doesn't offset the overall poor performance of the team which is clearly reflected in our lowly ladder position.

It is worth noting that our ladder position of 14th (at the moment) is above last year's finishing position of 15th. However, this small advance appears to have resulted more from the 15th ranked team (who actually beat us) having a tougher draw, rather than our own relative improvement.

Our more senior players, who have performed amazingly well for the majority of the last 3 seasons, have started to show the strain of carrying a ridiculous level of responsibility for the team's performance along with the added disincentive of having no prospect of team success.

Our skill level, playing style/tactics, team selection and list management all remain areas of serious concern, and with the current senior coach expected to remain in place there is no reason to expect these areas to improve next season.

I also think the performance and impact of the VFL team has also been massively overestimated on this forum. People seem to have conveniently forgotten that during our affiliation with Williamstown (and even Werribee before them), they were regularly positioned towards the upper end of the ladder. We may have a little more control over 'our' VFL team now but we also have to pay more for the privilege. I'm still to be 100% convinced that it has been a smart move for the club.

Considering the level of talent at the club, our 'kind' fixture, and the fact that we have probably spent more on our football department than ever before, we have seriously underachieved in 2014.

I'm not going to dispute most of what you've written, as they are all very fair comments.

But the bolded bit is a bit of overstatement on your part, as far as I am concerned.

Willamstown and Werribee's focus was winning for their own sake, Dogs players played in their twos due to number limits, etc, or not in the position the Dogs specifically wanted then to develop in - even Eade was frustrated by this many times. I'm not fussed whether Footscray win the flag - it would be nice, but not imperative. I'm more interested if players are played in positions where the senior WB coaches want them to play.

We also have a LOT more control of how players are played, Cordy and Campbell, for example, can ruck in tandem all year. This would not have happened with an affiliate if it didn't suit their purposes, or they had a ruckman on their list. WB/Footscray control the Footscray list in tandem - at Willi/Werribee, WB had no say on the composition of the affiliate's list.

 

[fronkalicious]

I'll keep it quick...

Biggest win team : Depth to the team. I believe up to 5 to 7 fringe players could come in and out of our side each week without making much of a difference. Long term this is what you need and all the best teams have this.

Biggest win players : Bonts, Stringer, McCrae, Libba, Dalhause, Murphy

Biggest loss Team : Still a mile behind playing a modern brand of footy which results in continued success.

Biggest loss players : Griffen, Cooney, Minson, Jones, Roughead

Coaching : Have to say fail overall. Not enough progression and development of players like Jones.

Drafting including rookies : Fail, Bonts maybe Honeychurch wins, fail in Fuller when a few KPP still available. Too much faith in existing talls.

Bonti maybe????

 

[Leon]

Agreed, and that fits in with us making the finals at last in 2020. Our young gun mids will be hitting their sweet spots with 100-120 games under their belts.

I reckon we can achieve playing finals in 2020 if we draft some good talls in the next 3 years to cover our holes at FB, CHB, Ruck, CHF and FF.

2020??!

Do you ever tire of talking us down at any and every opportunity?