Have the Dogs gone past North Melbourne?

[Pugz89]

If by bottom end teams that also means the top team, then yep, it's outrageous that you guys have been accused of being flat track bullies.

I'll give you the freo one, even though scores were level with 2mins ago when we played them, and they were also in much better form then also. So your mids have been up for one week before the game v us. Shouldn't be an issue tbh.

Your loss to us should be treated similarly by the media to our loss v Eagles. Reasonable form against bottom 8 sides (again, besides your freo win), then comes up against an in form side and gets shown up. Wonder how it will be construed by the media this week..

 

[McCrann]

I would have to say yes.

 

[McCrann]

I love all the attention we're getting. But this is A Grade Rubbish.

North are a comfortable Top 8 team, pushing Top 4. I'll be delirious if the Dogs win 10 games this year.

Let's not get too excited in Round 4.

Delirious DK?

 

[McCrann]

No ... of course not

I'll ignore the dots. The Flying Egg - You were wrong!

 

[McCrann]

I have a feeling both teams will play each other in an elimination final this year

Not a bad call.

 

[Moti]

The Dogs have built a better list than North, no doubt. North don't get the low picks so can't bring in really top talent which the Dogs have been able to do. Also, the list management has been off at the Roos, completely missing the need for pace around the ball.

Having said that, there have been plenty of talented sides that have never won a premiership and equally if not more less talented sides that have won premierships.

With most of the top 10-12 sides, I think it only takes 2 or 3 players to take the next step. For the Dogs, get a decent key forward, ruck and another KP defender and they would be there. For North, get 2 quick outside types and another at HB and they would be in the mix. Tiges have showed by adding a surprisingly sprite Vickery, next level Edwards and Mc Intosh that they are a much better side than last year.

 

[ManOfClay]

The Dogs have built a better list than North, no doubt. North don't get the low picks so can't bring in really top talent which the Dogs have been able to

Where were Hansen, Cunnington and ziebell drafted?

Toss out grant from our team on Saturday as he isn't a top talent and those three would cancel out Bont, stringer and macrae.

 

[maddog37]

The Dogs have built a better list than North, no doubt. North don't get the low picks so can't bring in really top talent which the Dogs have been able to do. Also, the list management has been off at the Roos, completely missing the need for pace around the ball.

Having said that, there have been plenty of talented sides that have never won a premiership and equally if not more less talented sides that have won premierships.

With most of the top 10-12 sides, I think it only takes 2 or 3 players to take the next step. For the Dogs, get a decent key forward, ruck and another KP defender and they would be there. For North, get 2 quick outside types and another at HB and they would be in the mix. Tiges have showed by adding a surprisingly sprite Vickery, next level Edwards and Mc Intosh that they are a much better side than last year.

I still feel North have some issues with their key position players. Waite, Drewie, Scott T and Spudito are not going to last forever. Hansen looks great and then poo, Tarrant looks good and Brown is good but seems to play more as a flanker. Who else is coming through?

 

[Thats Wright]

The Dogs have built a better list than North, no doubt. North don't get the low picks so can't bring in really top talent which the Dogs have been able to do. Also, the list management has been off at the Roos, completely missing the need for pace around the ball.

Having said that, there have been plenty of talented sides that have never won a premiership and equally if not more less talented sides that have won premierships.

With most of the top 10-12 sides, I think it only takes 2 or 3 players to take the next step. For the Dogs, get a decent key forward, ruck and another KP defender and they would be there. For North, get 2 quick outside types and another at HB and they would be in the mix. Tiges have showed by adding a surprisingly sprite Vickery, next level Edwards and Mc Intosh that they are a much better side than last year.

As much as there's been a strange fear of adding pace at North, the problems run deeper than that.

In hindsight, appointing Brad Scott was a mistake as well as making Swallow Captain.

2 major flaws in the system. Swallow needs to be demoted this year so he can look for a younger, weaker midfield to apply his trade in 2017. Brings a decent level of mediocrity but that's it.

Brad needs to start sending his resume out after going 2-3 in 2016. He'll be forever learning in hindsight and a step behind the best.

What's the point of having a coach that's not even trying to be the best. He's merely trying to be competetive. He doesn't know how to be the best. He doesn't even seem to know why they should be the best.

The whole point of having VFL players and draftees is for a coach to address flaws in the structure.

The floating idiot in defense, the 3 huge forwards, the selfish, lazy cheat small forward, the super slow outside mids, the captain that drops the knees and hugs opposition..

These are big issues.

Adding to the fundamental screw ups from Brad is the stationary handball receive, the whaling arm tackle, the lack of advice when squibbing, the constant boundary play, the total lack of development and the torching of young players almost every week.

Yes, the lack of pace with Wells being so soft is a problem, but the lack of development, structural faults and inept Captain/Coach are bigger problems and would still create mediocrity even with 10 speedsters.

 

[Moti]

Where were Hansen, Cunnington and ziebell drafted?

Toss out grant from our team on Saturday as he isn't a top talent and those three would cancel out Bont, stringer and macrae.

Other than Hansen, the other two weren't considered in the best draft pool players, Bont and Stringer were. I was trying to point out the really top end talent. In Cunnington's year it was the top 4 and Ziebells was the top 5 in that bracket. However, that is a very small part of the argument, as I said, the Dogs have built a better list.

 

[Moti]

I still feel North have some issues with their key position players. Waite, Drewie, Scott T and Spudito are not going to last forever. Hansen looks great and then poo, Tarrant looks good and Brown is good but seems to play more as a flanker. Who else is coming through?

We have Black, Wood, Daw forward and we just drafted three KP defenders (all injured this year) and have Tippet as a short term solution in the backline. I think we are ok for talls moving forward at the moment. Wouldn't mind more though

 

[Moti]

As much as there's been a strange fear of adding pace at North, the problems run deeper than that.

In hindsight, appointing Brad Scott was a mistake as well as making Swallow Captain.

2 major flaws in the system. Swallow needs to be demoted this year so he can look for a younger, weaker midfield to apply his trade in 2017. Brings a decent level of mediocrity but that's it.

Brad needs to start sending his resume out after going 2-3 in 2016. He'll be forever learning in hindsight and a step behind the best.

What's the point of having a coach that's not even trying to be the best. He's merely trying to be competetive. He doesn't know how to be the best. He doesn't even seem to know why they should be the best.

The whole point of having VFL players and draftees is for a coach to address flaws in the structure.

The floating idiot in defense, the 3 huge forwards, the selfish, lazy cheat small forward, the super slow outside mids, the captain that drops the knees and hugs opposition..

These are big issues.

Adding to the fundamental screw ups from Brad is the stationary handball receive, the whaling arm tackle, the lack of advice when squibbing, the constant boundary play, the total lack of development and the torching of young players almost every week.

Yes, the lack of pace with Wells being so soft is a problem, but the lack of development, structural faults and inept Captain/Coach are bigger problems and would still create mediocrity even with 10 speedsters.

Crap and crap. Scott is a solid coach and he got us to a Prelim playing good footy. The whole football department has erred with the outside run issues but the rest of the team has come together well.

As for Swallow, he has been a good Captain and has heart in spades. He was clearly the best choice then and still is as Ziebell is still yet to even have his best position worked out. His game is built on hard stuff and delivering out of congestion, but we are lacking runners and this has hurt him as well as the rest of the inside crew.

 

[Thats Wright]

Crap and crap. Scott is a solid coach and he got us to a Prelim playing good footy. The whole football department has erred with the outside run issues but the rest of the team has come together well.

As for Swallow, he has been a good Captain and has heart in spades. He was clearly the best choice then and still is as Ziebell is still yet to even have his best position worked out. His game is built on hard stuff and delivering out of congestion, but we are lacking runners and this has hurt him as well as the rest of the inside crew.

Well if you think a coach that hates flying the flag and if not for timely back surgery would've missed the 8 this year is solid, then that's something.

Swallow has been a good captain? Yes that's why Jack was leading all the captain talks last year and Swallow sets up like an under 12.

What's the point of having outside pace when Spita dives on the ball or pitching wedges it sideways or forward.

Glad you can hang your hat after 6 years on beating a terrible Essendon and Geelong last year. 2 of the worst finals teams in recent memory.

Sure, a speedster or 2 will help, but will that magically allow the side to compete in Round 1 or interstate? Or against the Gold Coast? No it won't.

The structures and personal are not just waiting around for a bit of pace. I'm aware you've been harping on about that but you're not alone there.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I did because yesterdays result didn't mean anything. And we'd been up for 7 weeks so I was expecting a drop at some point.

Crap, North were still a mathematical shot at a top 4 spot and at worst 5th or 6th with home ground for the first week of finals.

Could still potentially have to travel to Sydney or Adelaide first week, unlikely as that may be.

Win last 2 rounds and at worst it would have taken travel out of the equation for the first week.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Shades of 98.....

Ha ha ha ha

Shades of offended, Billy!

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

With a bullet

 

[Pugz89]

The Dogs have built a better list than North, no doubt. North don't get the low picks so can't bring in really top talent which the Dogs have been able to do. Also, the list management has been off at the Roos, completely missing the need for pace around the ball.

Having said that, there have been plenty of talented sides that have never won a premiership and equally if not more less talented sides that have won premierships.

With most of the top 10-12 sides, I think it only takes 2 or 3 players to take the next step. For the Dogs, get a decent key forward, ruck and another KP defender and they would be there. For North, get 2 quick outside types and another at HB and they would be in the mix. Tiges have showed by adding a surprisingly sprite Vickery, next level Edwards and Mc Intosh that they are a much better side than last year.

To be fair, we were also drafting against GWS and GC in compromised drafts. So we go some pretty decent picks but not as many as we would have had expansion clubs not been getting off the ground at the time.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

The Dogs have built a better list than North, no doubt. North don't get the low picks so can't bring in really top talent which the Dogs have been able to do. Also, the list management has been off at the Roos, completely missing the need for pace around the ball.

Having said that, there have been plenty of talented sides that have never won a premiership and equally if not more less talented sides that have won premierships.

With most of the top 10-12 sides, I think it only takes 2 or 3 players to take the next step. For the Dogs, get a decent key forward, ruck and another KP defender and they would be there. For North, get 2 quick outside types and another at HB and they would be in the mix. Tiges have showed by adding a surprisingly sprite Vickery, next level Edwards and Mc Intosh that they are a much better side than last year.

I don't mean to pick on you as others have made the same point, but have a look at the make up of the Dogs' side that took the field on Saturday.

Wood (#43) - Hamling (DFA) - Johannisen (Rookie)
Boyd (Rookie) - Morris (Rookie) - Murphy (#13)
Macrae (#6) - Picken (Rookie) - Hunter (#49)
Dahlhaus (Rookie) - Stringer (#5) - Crameri (#26)
Honeychurch (#60) - Redpath (Rookie) - Dickson (#57)
Roughead (#31) - Wallis (#22) - Bontempelli (#4)

Grant (#5) - Webb (#27) - Biggs (#37) - Cordy (#62)

Compare that with North...

Firrito (Rookie) - Tarrant (#15) - Atley (#17)
Wright (#27) - Thompson (#37) - Dal Santo (FA)
Macmillan (#37) - Ziebell (#9) - Jacobs (#37)
Higgins (FA) - Petrie (#23) - Garner (#15)
Hansen (#3) - Waite (FA) - Nahas (DFA)
Goldstein (#37) - Cunnington (#5) - Swallow (#43)

Bastinac (#21) - Harvey (#47) - Brown (#47) - Gibson (Rookie)

So of the sides (WB/NM):
1-10: 4/3
11-20: 1/3
21-30: 3/3
31-40: 2/4
41-50: 2/3
51-60: 2/0
61-70: 1/0
Rookie: 6/2
Free Agent: 1/4

There have been similar opportunities to bring in top end talent, over the years. The Dogs have just plundered the rookie draft. There's no doubt the side is being built around that top end talent, but the guys that came cheap have been so important - Johannisen, Hunter, Dickson etc - and they make up more than half the side.

 

[King Bont]

Remarkable how dogs have built their list and somehow managed to get such brilliant players. F/S helped in 2010 but I those years GC and eventually GWS dominated early picks and priority from 2010-now. And the our top 3 kids we have could be better than the ones on any other list.

 

[jacko57]

Well if you think a coach that hates flying the flag and if not for timely back surgery would've missed the 8 this year is solid, then that's something.

Swallow has been a good captain? Yes that's why Jack was leading all the captain talks last year and Swallow sets up like an under 12.

What's the point of having outside pace when Spita dives on the ball or pitching wedges it sideways or forward.

Glad you can hang your hat after 6 years on beating a terrible Essendon and Geelong last year. 2 of the worst finals teams in recent memory.

Sure, a speedster or 2 will help, but will that magically allow the side to compete in Round 1 or interstate? Or against the Gold Coast? No it won't.

The structures and personal are not just waiting around for a bit of pace. I'm aware you've been harping on about that but you're not alone there.

Have you considered whether an alternative captain would inspire the team?

Lindsay Thomas, for example?

 

[Northworth]

Have you considered whether an alternative captain would inspire the team?

Lindsay Thomas, for example?

was thinking Boomer

 

[Prince Imperial]

I don't mean to pick on you as others have made the same point, but have a look at the make up of the Dogs' side that took the field on Saturday.

Wood (#43) - Hamling (DFA) - Johannisen (Rookie)
Boyd (Rookie) - Morris (Rookie) - Murphy (#13)
Macrae (#6) - Picken (Rookie) - Hunter (#49)
Dahlhaus (Rookie) - Stringer (#5) - Crameri (#26)
Honeychurch (#60) - Redpath (Rookie) - Dickson (#57)
Roughead (#31) - Wallis (#22) - Bontempelli (#4)

Grant (#5) - Webb (#27) - Biggs (#37) - Cordy (#62)

Compare that with North...

Firrito (Rookie) - Tarrant (#15) - Atley (#17)
Wright (#27) - Thompson (#37) - Dal Santo (FA)
Macmillan (#37) - Ziebell (#9) - Jacobs (#37)
Higgins (FA) - Petrie (#23) - Garner (#15)
Hansen (#3) - Waite (FA) - Nahas (DFA)
Goldstein (#37) - Cunnington (#5) - Swallow (#43)

Bastinac (#21) - Harvey (#47) - Brown (#47) - Gibson (Rookie)

So of the sides (WB/NM):
1-10: 4/3
11-20: 1/3
21-30: 3/3
31-40: 2/4
41-50: 2/3
51-60: 2/0
61-70: 1/0
Rookie: 6/2
Free Agent: 1/4

There have been similar opportunities to bring in top end talent, over the years. The Dogs have just plundered the rookie draft. There's no doubt the side is being built around that top end talent, but the guys that came cheap have been so important - Johannisen, Hunter, Dickson etc - and they make up more than half the side.

Nice analysis. Should be said too that Biggs came from a swap of pick 37 for 39 (after Sydney had already committed to an academy player at 38). Can't get much cheaper than that!

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Nice analysis. Should be said too that Biggs came from a swap of pick 37 for 39 (after Sydney had already committed to an academy player at 38). Can't get much cheaper than that!

Yeah, a one pick downgrade is insane on the face of it let alone given the output he's produced.

It is a little bit skewed by North missing McDonald and Thomas, and the Dogs missing Libba and Clay Smith, but it gives us a pretty fair indication of where both teams have built from without considering career spans, age etc.

 

[Too_many_talls]

Before the game, I would have said no. Now, I'm not so sure. Frankly the Dogs just looked to have a little more talent in certain areas.

That being said, our midfield was extremely poor on the weekend. Really disappointed in that, I thought our forward line and backlines performed pretty well, and Goldy still managed 20 h/o to advantage notwithstanding some clever 3rd man up tactics.

Got to say I enjoyed the Dogs football and I'd be pleased to see them do well if North don't.

Still holding out some hope that our midfield just had a shocker....

 

[the dog's kennel]

Delirious DK?

I have never been happier to be quoted for wrongness!

Thank you, kind sir.