Autopsy Hawks vs Buddy Boy and the COLA kids

[JoondalupJ]

If we looked at the side in reality, Shoemaker is ahead of Spangher. Spangher is a cult figure and Shoe is a wipping boy. So we (collective not individually) as the hawk supporters see Spangher in the light of glass half full and Shoe as glass half empty.

I would say at this point Shoe would be selected both as a fwd and back in front of Spangher(and many will prob disagree). In fact as a stopper Shoe this year (only this year) would even be ahead of Stratton.
Stratton when we look at his career over the years is a better back, but this year with Strattons interrupted preseason and stop start year has been battling with form (which I believe is a direct correlation to the afore-mentioned drop off), once he gets back to an uninterrupted preseason he will be back to his best.

When we talk about the structure of the side - shoe is actually very important - more so than his output - with the genuine swingman option that he brings.

I have to agree. With Shoe. But I think Spangher can do special jobs when asked. Almost like it must be carried out. And he will go to each and every length to do it. When things are desperate, he is a saver sometimes. Shoe is utilised where he's needed and,with a full backline, he is a goal kicker.
But yes people look at him differently , both those guys are first picks for me , but Shoenmakers is usable in more areas. I thought the big forwards gave him some trouble. And I think he does certain things that create a situation but don't necessarily look like he's saving the day, but creates opportunity for someone else.
I may not be seeing it clearly , he just looked out of his range a couple of times last Saturday.

 

[Bikefreak]

If we looked at the side in reality, Shoemaker is ahead of Spangher. Spangher is a cult figure and Shoe is a wipping boy. So we (collective not individually) as the hawk supporters see Spangher in the light of glass half full and Shoe as glass half empty.

I would say at this point Shoe would be selected both as a fwd and back in front of Spangher(and many will prob disagree). In fact as a stopper Shoe this year (only this year) would even be ahead of Stratton.
Stratton when we look at his career over the years is a better back, but this year with Strattons interrupted preseason and stop start year has been battling with form (which I believe is a direct correlation to the afore-mentioned drop off), once he gets back to an uninterrupted preseason he will be back to his best.

When we talk about the structure of the side - shoe is actually very important - more so than his output - with the genuine swingman option that he brings.

For my money I still think the thing that Shoe needs to work on the most is WATCHING THE FOOTY, JUDGING THE FALL OF THE BALL and GETTING TO THE CONTEST.

Stop watching your man. To beat your opponent you need to get the footy or help one of your teammates get the footy. Watching your man aint going to get you the footy. It will see you get caught out of position and giving away free kicks and/or made to look a bit average.

He has all the rest, size, strength, ability, determination.

 

[TyHawk]

With all available specialist coaches around at Hawks why on earth is Schoey still looking like a rabbit in headlights whenever the ball is in the air ?? I have zero confidence and in fact I see it as a " Divine Intervention" if somehow the oppo forward doesn't clunk it on him! The way I know how to defend is do what Harry Taylor and Lake do...it has nothing to do with extra centimeters but to do with attacking the high ball like a forward and by doing that you usually get there first. Dunno but I want Lake back.

 

[jd1991]

For my money I still think the thing that Shoe needs to work on the most is WATCHING THE FOOTY, JUDGING THE FALL OF THE BALL and GETTING TO THE CONTEST.

Stop watching your man. To beat your opponent you need to get the footy or help one of your teammates get the footy. Watching your man aint going to get you the footy. It will see you get caught out of position and giving away free kicks and/or made to look a bit average.

He has all the rest, size, strength, ability, determination.

You need to look at that in the context of the role he has been asked to do, which unless we are in the inner circle we dont know exactly, but looking in from the outside, I am assuming his primary role is to stop his opponent - which even if it looks ugly he has done effectively. In the context of the backline they have around him many players to be the line breakers take the game on, so he is not called asked to undertake this as much as others.

We also need to look at this in relation to his opponents generally in the pecking orders of the opposition fwd lines, without Lake there he takes the nbr 1 back, not nbr 2 or 3, so you would assume his orders are first to lock down (again I am reading into the coaches instructions without been aware of them, based on the play as it unfolds as the reference point). Against the swans, although buddy is nbr 1/Tippet nbr 2, we have multiple realistic options to at least attempt to compete, in reality on Tippett we had 1, available with both Spangher/Lake out.

 

[Sixpence]

Doesn't matter at all to me where he went......just that he went.....and how he went.

They are the two issues.

I don't begrudge him for leaving, but the Where and the How are what gets me the most!

 

[Bikefreak]

You need to look at that in the context of the role he has been asked to do, which unless we are in the inner circle we dont know exactly, but looking in from the outside, I am assuming his primary role is to stop his opponent - which even if it looks ugly he has done effectively. In the context of the backline they have around him many players to be the line breakers take the game on, so he is not called asked to undertake this as much as others.

We also need to look at this in relation to his opponents generally in the pecking orders of the opposition fwd lines, without Lake there he takes the nbr 1 back, not nbr 2 or 3, so you would assume his orders are first to lock down (again I am reading into the coaches instructions without been aware of them, based on the play as it unfolds as the reference point). Against the swans, although buddy is nbr 1/Tippet nbr 2, we have multiple realistic options to at least attempt to compete, in reality on Tippett we had 1, available with both Spangher/Lake out.

Not always effectively.

I personally believe that this (watching his opponent) is a flaw in his game. Just the same as Buddy's runaround and hook goal kicking style. Should have been picked up early by junior coaches and duly addressed. Some may have indeed attempted to????

Whilst I understand the points that you are making, essentially the basics of being skillful and competitive as an individual don't have their origins in the team game plan in the first instance.

 

[cryptor]

Not always effectively.

I personally believe that this (watching his opponent) is a flaw in his game. Just the same as Buddy's runaround and hook goal kicking style. Should have been picked up early by junior coaches and duly addressed. Some may have indeed attempted to????

Whilst I understand the points that you are making, essentially the basics of being skillful and competitive as an individual don't have their origins in the team game plan in the first instance.

Schoey was a forward as a junior. His time in defence only really started at Hawthorn. The watching of his opponent is imo directly a result of his discomfort at being in defence which is a direct result of being inexperienced in that position. He's improved in that regard over the years but his demeanour while playing forward is the difference between night and day.

 

[markr]

King had some interesting footage on AFL 360 of a couple of instances of our guys running hard off Kennedy and setting up goals. Really good work to try and use one of their best players' weakness against them.

 

[Samurai Hawk]

King had some interesting footage on AFL 360 of a couple of instances of our guys running hard off Kennedy and setting up goals. Really good work to try and use one of their best players' weakness against them.

Anywhere us non subscribers can see this weeks AFL 360?

 

[Flukey!]

We have dominated the footy review shows this week. I have watched just about all of them.

 

[11sjw]

King had some interesting footage on AFL 360 of a couple of instances of our guys running hard off Kennedy and setting up goals. Really good work to try and use one of their best players' weakness against them.

It was some great work by David King & Co. Just shows the "One way-ness" of the supposed best two way runners.

 

[cryptor]

King had some interesting footage on AFL 360 of a couple of instances of our guys running hard off Kennedy and setting up goals. Really good work to try and use one of their best players' weakness against them.

Our guys weren't even running that hard off him. Looked more like he was just not providing the required effort himself. In particular was the Suckling-Birchall-Breust goal where Kennedy picks up Gibson knowing full well Gibbo was on Buddy and wouldn't be transferring to the midfield if the ball made out of the 50.

 

[becalm]

For my money I still think the thing that Shoe needs to work on the most is WATCHING THE FOOTY, JUDGING THE FALL OF THE BALL and GETTING TO THE CONTEST.

Stop watching your man. To beat your opponent you need to get the footy or help one of your teammates get the footy. Watching your man aint going to get you the footy. It will see you get caught out of position and giving away free kicks and/or made to look a bit average.

He has all the rest, size, strength, ability, determination.

Watching the ball sounds quite straight forward. When an opposition player is not under pressure , providing he is a reasonable kick, will kick to his forwards advantage, so if Shoey only watches the ball he will be to late as the forward has already made position and the ball has been kicked to him. In my opinion, it wouldn't matter how good the back man is he cannot prevent a good kick to the forwards advantage. Why do coaches keep repeating over and over that pressure must be on the ball carrier up field?

 

[blue harvest]

I wonder if the AFL will do anything about the $wans 19th player on the field for most of the last quarter?

The runner Nick Davis was filling space, directing traffic and with 4 min to go when Kennedy had that free kick on the edge of the square he was even calling for the ball in the middle on behalf of the Swans player next to him. What a joke. At 3:28 to go when Mitchell took the kick from half back he was filling space on the Toyota logo, then he strategically ran into the space where McEvoy was looking to kick after marking Mitchell's kick on the wing. He had no right to be anywhere near that position. Commentators even pointed out his antics earlier in the quarter when he was hanging around the middle like a bad smell. Wouldn't surprise me if he got a couple of the coaches votes.
AFL need to send a nice little email to Nick, GTFO cheat.

 

[LuvMyHawks]

I wonder if the AFL will do anything about the $wans 19th player on the field for most of the last quarter?

The runner Nick Davis was filling space, directing traffic and with 4 min to go when Kennedy had that free kick on the edge of the square he was even calling for the ball in the middle on behalf of the Swans player next to him. What a joke. At 3:28 to go when Mitchell took the kick from half back he was filling space on the Toyota logo, then he strategically ran into the space where McEvoy was looking to kick after marking Mitchell's kick on the wing. He had no right to be anywhere near that position. Commentators even pointed out his antics earlier in the quarter when he was hanging around the middle like a bad smell. Wouldn't surprise me if he got a couple of the coaches votes.
AFL need to send a nice little email to Nick, GTFO cheat.


That will make it 22 players on the ground for the Tainted Swans!. Goddamm it, 21 players are enough!!.I think the AFL should totally ban ALL runners. Surely information etc can be relayed to the players when they take a spell on the bench.

 

[The BIG X]

What's wrong with our guys running towards their runner and the ball is kicked to that direction - causing their runner to be in the play. Hopefully a free kick is then paid

 

[QuietB]

What's wrong with our guys running towards their runner and the ball is kicked to that direction - causing their runner to be in the play. Hopefully a free kick is then paid

Or just keep running through him

 

[Roddy]

I wonder if the AFL will do anything about the $wans 19th player on the field for most of the last quarter?

The runner Nick Davis was filling space, directing traffic and with 4 min to go when Kennedy had that free kick on the edge of the square he was even calling for the ball in the middle on behalf of the Swans player next to him. What a joke. At 3:28 to go when Mitchell took the kick from half back he was filling space on the Toyota logo, then he strategically ran into the space where McEvoy was looking to kick after marking Mitchell's kick on the wing. He had no right to be anywhere near that position. Commentators even pointed out his antics earlier in the quarter when he was hanging around the middle like a bad smell. Wouldn't surprise me if he got a couple of the coaches votes.
AFL need to send a nice little email to Nick, GTFO cheat.


That will make it 22 players on the ground for the Tainted Swans!. Goddamm it, 21 players are enough!!.I think the AFL should totally ban ALL runners. Surely information etc can be relayed to the players when they take a spell on the bench.

Plus another up in the review box....

 

[Argy]

I'd like one of our players to grab him by the scruff of the neck and shake him up and tell him to GTFO. Get it into the headlines and make sure they keep runners out of the game.

It's a scourge - I hate it - even from Hawthorn. There are 120 interchanges in a match - that's more than enough to get the coaches messages out to the players. No need for runners whatsoever.

 

[B&GBlood]

King had some interesting footage on AFL 360 of a couple of instances of our guys running hard off Kennedy and setting up goals. Really good work to try and use one of their best players' weakness against them.

Teams have done it Sammy before.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Great piece of play ruined by some laughably poor commentary...

"Here's Puopolo! And he says 'You're Laidler, and I'm PUOPOLOOO!'"

Why would he say that BT?

Just too poor a commentator to come up with something legitimate to say so resorts to his crutch call. Not even a "boy oh boy!" or "wow-wee!"

I love the commentary, it's pretty funny if you ask me. I don't see how it's cliche at all.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

I wonder if the AFL will do anything about the $wans 19th player on the field for most of the last quarter?

The runner Nick Davis was filling space, directing traffic and with 4 min to go when Kennedy had that free kick on the edge of the square he was even calling for the ball in the middle on behalf of the Swans player next to him. What a joke. At 3:28 to go when Mitchell took the kick from half back he was filling space on the Toyota logo, then he strategically ran into the space where McEvoy was looking to kick after marking Mitchell's kick on the wing. He had no right to be anywhere near that position. Commentators even pointed out his antics earlier in the quarter when he was hanging around the middle like a bad smell. Wouldn't surprise me if he got a couple of the coaches votes.
AFL need to send a nice little email to Nick, GTFO cheat.

Why would the AFL sanction one of their own employees for helping their team win.

 

[heh]

I love the commentary, it's pretty funny if you ask me. I don't see how it's cliche at all.

Must admit it entertained me at the time. And I hate bt.

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Must admit it entertained me at the time. And I hate bt.

I liked BT on MMM but can't stand him on channel 7.

But yeah, really like the Puopolo call, probably my favourite call since 1113333333, 1111111111111133333333333333333333!

I think it's a bit boring if he just says 'Puopolo snaps the goal'. He actually summed up the situation in a funny and unique way. It highlighted the fact that Pops was always gonna leave Laidler for dust in a foot race.

 

[heh]

I liked BT on MMM but can't stand him on channel 7.

But yeah, really like the Puopolo call, probably my favourite call since 1113333333, 1111111111111133333333333333333333!

I think it's a bit boring if he just says 'Puopolo snaps the goal'. He actually summed up the situation in a funny and unique way. It highlighted the fact that Pops was always gonna leave Laidler for dust in a foot race.

It was a funny call.

I have only heard him a couple of times on radio, I think that medium helps him, as he has to call the game and there isn't as much space that needs "filling"

It also might help that listeners wouldn't be able to tell when he gets every second players name wrong.