Autopsy Hawks vs Cats - Another epic is written in the book of freakin' Epic.

[LuvMyHawks]

Hope that we win or hope that you're still alive?

HEHE Both...

 

[krisholio14]

An interesting stat: the Hawks had 6 players from their 2008 Grand Final team

The Cats had 9, and their names question whether they really are rebuilding so well, or have they just been able to keep their best players going longer than others?
The Cats players include Johnson, Selwood, Bartel, Enright, Lonergan, Taylor.

They're still their best players.



p.s. I wonder if they still use the supplements that Bomber Thompson introduced?

I'm going to refrain from making snide remarks, I'll just point out that 4 of our Ten players from the 08 GF were in their first or second years (Taylor, Selwood, Varcoe) and Lonergan had played about 20 games. That makes six players who had 50 games plus experience at the time who were out there yesterday (Enright, Bartel, S.Johnson, Kelly, Mackie and Stokes - who only just scraped in with 52 games).

Of your 6 who played yesterday, only Cyril was first or second year, or had played less than 50 games. You also had Brad Sewell out injured.

By my reckoning, that means you've got as many 'experienced' players still going from that game as we do. But then we also haven't traded for or FA signed as extensively for veterans like you guys have, and you have 3 players from that game at other clubs also (to our 1).

I know it's your board and all that, but twisting the facts just to set up a cheap shot at us because you're bitter about the result yesterday isn't very sporting

 

[Hawk Dork]

p.s. I wonder if they still use the supplements that Bomber Thompson introduced?

The official line is
"Whilst we have no evidence or information that this individual acted in an improper manner during his employment at the Geelong Football Club, we are ready to cooperate fully with the investigation"

 

[krisholio14]

I walk away from yesterday's result and take away these points:
1. Based on yesterdays performance, we have much more scope for improvement (team & individual level) compared to Geelong + we have 'starting 18' key players to come in..
2. All 50/50 balls fell in Geelong's players hands all day
3. Based on the above 2 points, we were still a very realistic chance to win this match with 10 minutes remaining.

It isn't all doom & gloom, as much as being undefeated was very appealing, this loss will keep the players 'honest' and hopefully give us all a reality check, supporters included.

Both sides have plenty of room for improvement. Hawthorn have important players to come back who will beef up the defense, and we have some important players to come back who can beef up our midfield/attack.

I reckon the main issue yesterday stemmed from the fact you guys haven't been tested at all so far this season. Even Freo let you do as you pleased. This game was the first high intensity game you've played since the GF, and as you'd expect, the skills, especially by foot, weren't quite crisp enough.

I think this game is one you absolutely had to get under the belt, and I would suggest you'll sharpen right up from here.

There's certainly no need to stop the train and get off at Panic Station just yet.

 

[Bosk]

2008, have you forgotten which match we won against them that year?

Guess I misread and assumed he was talking about Round 1, 2009.

 

[cryptor]

Both sides have plenty of room for improvement. Hawthorn have important players to come back who will beef up the defense, and we have some important players to come back who can beef up our midfield/attack.

I reckon the main issue yesterday stemmed from the fact you guys haven't been tested at all so far this season. Even Freo let you do as you pleased. This game was the first high intensity game you've played since the GF, and as you'd expect, the skills, especially by foot, weren't quite crisp enough.

I think this game is one you absolutely had to get under the belt, and I would suggest you'll sharpen right up from here.

There's certainly no need to stop the train and get off at Panic Station just yet.

Good post. Even if we'd managed to get up and win by 19 points ourselves it wouldn't have meant too much other than to appease some of our fans who think we have an inability to beat Geelong despite doing so in the previous encounter.

Both teams will line up significantly different in round 22 and will likely be employing different tactics from yesterday arvo as well. The game awarded 4 points and little more. I doubt Geelong (the club, not the fans perhaps) will walk away from this game thinking the next game between these two sides is in the bag.

 

[wallyt99]

I think this game is one you absolutely had to get under the belt, and I would suggest you'll sharpen right up from here.

As long as we take it one game at a time, and give 110%...

 

[Procrastinator35]

And I posted in that thread that I thought the thread was out of line and personal attacks were uncalled for and if they had anything to say to use the autopsy thread - the same thing should have happened to the hodge and roughead threads.

You don't like, quite rightly, someone labelling tazz as soft but fully support davo23 calling someone an idiot - can you not see the hypocrisy of that statement. This is a forum for footy discussion and whether they be positive or negative opinions it should never get personal - not towards the players or those who post here.

Gotta say Couch Potato....You are coming across as the voice of reason & an excellent arbitrator to boot....You've got my vote as the next mod to be sure!

Good post. Even if we'd managed to get up and win by 19 points ourselves it wouldn't have meant too much other than to appease some of our fans who think we have an inability to beat Geelong despite doing so in the previous encounter.

Both teams will line up significantly different in round 22 and will likely be employing different tactics from yesterday arvo as well. The game awarded 4 points and little more. I doubt Geelong (the club, not the fans perhaps) will walk away from this game thinking the next game between these two sides is in the bag.

I like your positivity Cryptor, but gotta say: 1 win in 13 hardly represents grounds for optimism in my books....They've got our number & they know it!

If you think in terms of long range principles, then I'm afraid what lies before us is an utter train wreck when it comes to Geelong...And I'm afraid it aint gonna turn around any time soon!....Not whilst Clarko & the current leadership group insist on continuing to serve up the same glib performance & post-match excuses time & again

Last year's Prelim win was but a mere glitch in the unshackling of the aforementioned train wreck....Lets be honest with ourselves!

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

I'm going to refrain from making snide remarks, I'll just point out that 4 of our Ten players from the 08 GF were in their first or second years (Taylor, Selwood, Varcoe) and Lonergan had played about 20 games. That makes six players who had 50 games plus experience at the time who were out there yesterday (Enright, Bartel, S.Johnson, Kelly, Mackie and Stokes - who only just scraped in with 52 games).

Of your 6 who played yesterday, only Cyril was first or second year, or had played less than 50 games. You also had Brad Sewell out injured.

By my reckoning, that means you've got as many 'experienced' players still going from that game as we do. But then we also haven't traded for or FA signed as extensively for veterans like you guys have, and you have 3 players from that game at other clubs also (to our 1).

I know it's your board and all that, but twisting the facts just to set up a cheap shot at us because you're bitter about the result yesterday isn't very sporting

We haven't signed any FA's. You signed Rivers and McIntosh whom are both 30 this year.

Hawks in the last few years have recruited players 25/26 or younger. Lake the only exception. However Gunston was only 20 and is only 22 now.

 

[krisholio14]

We haven't signed any FA's. You signed Rivers and McIntosh whom are both 30 this year.

Hawks in the last few years have recruited players 25/26 or younger. Lake the only exception. However Gunston was only 20 and is only 22 now.

How old was Burgoyne?

I also couldn't remember off the top of my head if you'd picked up a FA or not, but regardless, you have traded for more experienced guys.

And look, I am not taking a pot shot at your recruiting strategy, just merely pointing out a few things to a person who was clearly making an inference that we've been cheating.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

 

[Dipper]

Agree with Lake( did not mention him as I was more interested in forward options although based on yesterdays evidence both Lake and Shoenmakers would have helped), and maybe McEvoy although this is purely on reputation rather than evidence due to the small number of games he has played with us

I am also optimistic. Good teams, and that’s what we are, do not need to include too many players to change a feature/characteristic. For example at the end of 2012, we were ‘judged’ to be a slow, one paced team that could not break the lines as well as run out games. In 2013, we simply added Hill and waited for natural improvement in Smith and Shiels' in running ability, tweaked the game plan a little and suddenly we were a very good running team!!

It's funny that you compare it to when the team was considered slow, I see it exactly the same way.Couple of years ago we were the best kicking side but slow and lacked contested marking all over the ground.In a short space of time I thought we'd done very well to add that run and give ourselves marking options in two of the areas that were the most problematic;full back and kick out from defence, with the addition of Lake and McEvoy.But you're correct we're still struggling in the forward half, Hale goes ok but Roughy is frustrating.

The number of times Geelong players took a grab along the boundary also brought home their general advantage.

We just need to include 2 or 3 better marking players, they do not have to be strictly ‘tall’ players, just better at marking than their opponents. Then we need to be smart enough to keep targeting them again and again and again. (Unlike what we do now – which is to keep expecting Poppy to mark above his head under pressure)

Without wishing this to become a love in I'm in agreement again, it's not just talls but players that are a good grab for their size, once again I think this is where Hallahan and Anderson are key, added to the fact that they both go hard, win the ball and kick a goal.

It'll be interesting to see if Schoenmakers can give us some value, maybe play him in a similar way to Gunston, if the stay at home defenders have to look after Hale and Roughy and Gunston gets a top player then there must be scope for Schoey to get on his bike and take advantage as long as we don't become top heavy.

 

[cryptor]

I like your positivity Cryptor, but gotta say: 1 win in 13 hardly represents grounds for optimism in my books....They've got our number & they know it!

If you think in terms of long range principles, then I'm afraid what lies before us is an utter train wreck when it comes to Geelong...And I'm afraid it aint gonna turn around any time soon!....Not whilst Clarko & the current leadership group insist on continuing to serve up the same glib performance & post-match excuses time & again

Last year's Prelim win was but a mere glitch in the unshackling of the aforementioned train wreck....Lets be honest with ourselves!

1 in 13 is a horrible record, agreed. I just don't know how people can put so much weighting on games from so long ago. I would only go back as far as our second game against them mid year last season as having any relevance. By the time round 22 comes around and we play them again then that game probably won't hold much relevance either. We just need to get our best team out on the ground against them and stop being so predictable.

 

[H2F]

How old was Burgoyne?

I also couldn't remember off the top of my head if you'd picked up a FA or not, but regardless, you have traded for more experienced guys.

And look, I am not taking a pot shot at your recruiting strategy, just merely pointing out a few things to a person who was clearly making an inference that we've been cheating.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

Hey Krisholio, does Geelong have a bogey team or someone you at least generally struggle with?

 

[Alsmypal]

I can only hope that Clarko was keeping some cards up our sleeve for when it matters.

From my obs yesterday.
McEvoy underdone and should've dropped in the space in front of Hawkins.
Rioli ordinairy why not swing him on to half back to get a kick n bring him into the game.
Roughead MIA and unfortunately I hate to say it doesn't have that X factor Buddy has.
Where's Sewell at? Langford was great I know he's learning his trade but we needed some damage done to.
Cheney was never going to win that battle it was clear to everyone. I only hope were building his currency up for trade time.

All in all though I was still happy as I know there is plenty to come back and we needed a bit of hunger back in the boys!

 

[Jack Gun Cyril Stun]

hehehe surely this is said in jest. If Geelong make top 4 I will be surprised. Very average list. Its round.5.

Let Shakespeare do his cooling thing....he works in mysterious ways but gets results!

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

We haven't signed any FA's. You signed Rivers and McIntosh whom are both 30 this year.

Hawks in the last few years have recruited players 25/26 or younger. Lake the only exception. However Gunston was only 20 and is only 22 now.

Burgoyne had just turned 27. Has nearly played 100 games for Hawthorn.

I'm not arguing that hawthorn haven't recruited experienced players but every player bar Lake has/will give us at least 5 years of good football.

Can you say that about Rivers and McIntosh? They are clearly 2 recruits to attempt (succeeding) to remain competitive over the short term.

 

[becalm]

Burgoyne had just turned 27. Has nearly played 100 games for Hawthorn.

I'm not arguing that hawthorn haven't recruited experienced players but every player bar Lake has/will give us at least 5 years of good football.

Can you say that about Rivers and McIntosh? They are clearly 2 recruits to attempt (succeeding) to remain competitive over the short term.

Not to much to worry about We were in front with 12 minutes to play.
Two observations 1/ Geelong is the best team in the competition at blocking for their for their team mate.
Harry Taylor quite often is blocked for when he takes a mark. Im sure the coaching panel are well aware of this, the next step is to find a way of combating it. 2/ Suckling needs to harden up and as pointed out by someone earlier is too predictable and slow on his left foot for a team like Geelong.

 

[H2F]

So I did some homework and guess who Geelong struggled with.

You guessed it the team we always pump.

Funny that, because other than Cloke Collingwood play a small forwardline and a tall defence.

Who would have thought???

 

[H2F]

We play a tall forwardline and a small defence.

What a freakin surprise!!!

 

[kenneje]

It's probably been mentioned, but again it was glaringly obvious that we were relying on Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne to be the match winning midfielders when the game was on the line, and they just couldn't get it done. That's not to say they won't ever get it done, I mean Mitchell carried us through the first 3 quarters of last years prelim and Burgoyne the final quarter, but they're getting older and the one position IMO we're going to struggle dominating in 3-4 years is the clearances.

We just don't have a young, up and coming match winning midfielder. Anderson looks to be a gem, but I struggle to think of one other side (bar Geelong) that doesn't have a very very very good under 24/5 year old midfielder that is playing every week and has shown they're going to be brilliant. You think of Richmond with Cotchin, Adelaide with Danger, the expansion sides with a dozen each, Sydney with Bird/Mitchell etc., and I think that it's becoming more and more important for the future of the club to go hard after a midfielder... or top draft picks so we can develop one ourselves.

I understand that means we will probably lose a few very good players that I absolutely love, but we got overrun in the midfield yesterday, and I can't imagine feeling overly confident in a few years time saying to Hallahan, Anderson and Langford to go win us a prelim that's on the line. That's not to say they won't be bloody good.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

We play a tall forwardline and a small defence.

What a freakin surprise!!!

I get the impression you are leading up to a knockout punch.

 

[H2F]

The secret to beating Geelong is playing a small forwardline and a tall defence.

Just like the third quarter of the 2008 Grand Final.

 

[H2F]

Push Roughead back with Lake, forces Taylor forward, makes Bartel go back, bye bye Geelongs system.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Push Roughead back with Lake, forces Taylor forward, makes Bartel go back, bye bye Geelongs system.

SHHHHHHHH.....Careful Clarko might hear you!....How dare you question his game-plan that has failed miserably time & again against the CATS!

 

[TyHawk]

Geelong played their guts out and we seemed a bit flat and even then it took the last 10 minutes for Hawkins to kick 3 of his 5 and won by 19! Lake in would be huge ! I know they had no Motlop or Christensen but Shiels and Anderson would even out the ledger there IMO. What the Cats do so well is that they cut our running and kicking angles and make us go loop towards the boundary and this was so evident with whenever Suckling, Smith, Birchall and Hill had the ball. We need Burgoyne in the guts along with Jed to tuck the ball under arms and just break tackles and run in straight lines! Burgs did this from the centre bounce in the last qtr and that put Cats defense on the back foot immediately...need to keep working hard and keep running and I reckon we'll be well on our way! Off course Roughy needs to get on his bike as well.that's the way I see it. Cats now are on top and are the team to chase as Clarkos so bluntly put it in his Presser. Nothing is lost yet, we were in the same predicament last year and we all know how tha turned out!