People do realise that while elite performances have improved markedly, records kept by schools to the general fitness of kids ( running times etc )indicate the kids of a couple of decades ago were fitter across the board ?
Hawthorn 1989 vs Melbourne 2014
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- Aug 6, 2010
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Cause kids are generally fatter these days.
I'm not seeing the relevance to this debate.
Just trying to quantify the difference. People have already alluded to the umpires approach to the game.
Now the game is so much less thuggish we have players today who wouldnt have stepped on a footy field back then for all the tea in china
Maybe the whole thing could be debated with Michael tuck as a sme on 1970s and 1980s and Dustin fletcher on the 1990s 2000s
Its a counterpoint. Not everything automatically improves.
Personally Im not convinced either way
I see what you mean, the more lenient view on thuggery of the 80s would open Melbourne up to an enormous amount of intimidation from the Hawks.
I concede that point, certainly possible it could change the outcome.
- Sep 10, 2006
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Melbourne would win quite easily. Anyone who says otherwise is seriously underestimating the difference between the game then and the game now.
Hawthorn would have no idea how to cope with any of today's tactics and they'd be absolutely exposed by the oppositions fitness and the ridiculous number of interchanges. In fact, most of the things the Melbourne team were doing would be so completely baffling to them their heads would probably explode trying to comprehend what was going on.
Hawthorn would have no idea how to cope with any of today's tactics and they'd be absolutely exposed by the oppositions fitness and the ridiculous number of interchanges. In fact, most of the things the Melbourne team were doing would be so completely baffling to them their heads would probably explode trying to comprehend what was going on.
- Aug 6, 2010
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I'd agree that the difference in physicality would bring it a bit closer. Hawthorn would use it to good effect I'd imagine. Half of them wouldn't be playing the next week under the current system, but it wouldn't matter.
Yes the melbourne players would be putting all that fitness to good use
Actually this weeks hawks sydney game could be a bit of an insight too. Sydney have beefed up their players and the hawks have prepared them more toned
Sydney are the ones spending 10 to 20% than the next team more as the hawks were doing in the early nineties ( we stole platten off carlton apparently)
Sydney are more likely to seek out the boundary line which was a feature of the game back then that afficionados conveniently forget hawks use the running structures more
So hawks by a lazy ten ? Sounds easy
Actually this weeks hawks sydney game could be a bit of an insight too. Sydney have beefed up their players and the hawks have prepared them more toned
Sydney are the ones spending 10 to 20% than the next team more as the hawks were doing in the early nineties ( we stole platten off carlton apparently)
Sydney are more likely to seek out the boundary line which was a feature of the game back then that afficionados conveniently forget hawks use the running structures more
So hawks by a lazy ten ? Sounds easy
- Aug 21, 2007
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Every player in the league would have the stamina to play 100% gametime without any issues if the game was being played at the pace and intensity that it was in 1989.
I mentioned before that a defender filled the hole in front of a leading forward back then, look out. Now its the forward who makes the adjustment. Maybe thats when flooding started.
I dont personally call what the forward did as thuggery, more obstruction from the defender
- Aug 21, 2007
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This argument is getting made quite a lot, and I don't really agree with it at all. Do people think that every player these days is a cleanskin with no mongrel in them at all? Yes, the hawks were a very physical side to the point of thuggery, but they were allowed to be. Teams these days aren't. If you suddenly turn the rules off then there would be plenty of modern players who would be incredibly intimidating.
Its one of the most mentally tough teams of all time versus one of the most mentally weak. Of all time really !
Its muddying the waters
Did you miss the melbourne fc 2014 bit ?
What about Hawks 1989 v Gold coast 2014. At least they have some mongrel and skill
- Jul 31, 2012
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OK, but isn't the premise of the exercise to pit the best team from 1989 against the worst team from 2014?
I think Melbourne would win, I just don't see how any team from the 80s could stand up to the pace of the game today. Those of you that think Hawthorn would win should go back and look at a replay of a game played in the late 80s, it was still very stop start footy.
Todays footy does not stop, it pings from one end to the other and it is hard to see how a team with 80s fitness could keep up with a team of today.
Not to mention that todays footballers are basically full time professionals and their skills are way up on players of the 80s. Close to quarter time then probably a blow out.
Todays footy does not stop, it pings from one end to the other and it is hard to see how a team with 80s fitness could keep up with a team of today.
Not to mention that todays footballers are basically full time professionals and their skills are way up on players of the 80s. Close to quarter time then probably a blow out.
I read it a s superior preperation, tactics and fitness as meaning everything is better than 25 years ago.
It seem like you have to take "everything into account too"
One think out of the hawks recently is amos frank was disadvantaged too much by language to absorb hawthorns game plans etc. theres obviously much more emphasis on that these days.
Though I note soccer is quite a subtle game and they dont have a problem with players of different languages
It seem like you have to take "everything into account too"
One think out of the hawks recently is amos frank was disadvantaged too much by language to absorb hawthorns game plans etc. theres obviously much more emphasis on that these days.
Though I note soccer is quite a subtle game and they dont have a problem with players of different languages
- Aug 21, 2007
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You don't think guys like Dawes, Dunn, Jamar, Tyson, Tapscott, Pedersen and Jones have any mongrel in them? Hell, Bernie Vince took a cheap shot at Kane Cornes and probably would have taken his head off if there weren't 1000 cameras and the prospect of a lengthy suspension on the cards.
I'm not saying that Melbourne 2014 are more physical than Hawthorn 1989, not at all. But the idea that Melbourne wouldn't be able to defend themselves in any way is a bit ridiculous.
It has to work both ways, the OP asked us to ignore the minor rule changes??? and have the Hawks as they were in 1989 play Melbourne today in this new sport called AFL under this new sports rules.
It may give Melbourne a silly chance.
But how about we play the game and the rules as they were in 1989, now lets see how many melbourne blokes run back and sit in the hole knowing they could get seriously hurt. Lets see how many Melbourne blokes take a mark knowing that they can seriously be spoilt and they won't get a free kick.
Todays Melbourne or any side would be in Counselling before half time, they would all be in tears at half time. They would need a team of doctors to give them all a pain killer shot to just return to the field for the second half. And I am not talking anything out of the ordinary just real tough every day footy. By the end of the first quarter they would be to scared to pick up the footy, let alone be able to hit a target which by the way even these days they are not that great at. Hawks would smash them.
Play under todays uncontested rules, then Melbourne would have a chance.
Athletes have never beaten footballers and I think the same here.
It may give Melbourne a silly chance.
But how about we play the game and the rules as they were in 1989, now lets see how many melbourne blokes run back and sit in the hole knowing they could get seriously hurt. Lets see how many Melbourne blokes take a mark knowing that they can seriously be spoilt and they won't get a free kick.
Todays Melbourne or any side would be in Counselling before half time, they would all be in tears at half time. They would need a team of doctors to give them all a pain killer shot to just return to the field for the second half. And I am not talking anything out of the ordinary just real tough every day footy. By the end of the first quarter they would be to scared to pick up the footy, let alone be able to hit a target which by the way even these days they are not that great at. Hawks would smash them.
Play under todays uncontested rules, then Melbourne would have a chance.
Athletes have never beaten footballers and I think the same here.
Lost count of the times the hawks would kick to jarman beyond the press and hed casually beat his man, and hit dunstall on the chest
Ball went from end to end pretty damn quick. If they did it today itd be called slingshot footy also remember waverley park was a good but bigger than some grounds today
Well also players today are so much stronger and bigger than they were 25 years ago. If Hawks of 89 went the physical route they would come off second best.
- Aug 21, 2007
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That's what it does mean, but there is no point wondering if Hawthorn 2014 could beat Richmond 1989, because they could do that if you banned them from exercising or touching a footy for 12 months.
The idea of this sort of thread is to argue that overall fitness, skills and tactics have evolved so much that the worst sides from 2014 (even Brisbane and St Kilda) could comfortably account for the best sides in 1989.
No it didn't. There were passages of end to end footy but 90% of the game was one on one and traditional positional play. Go back and have a look. Players skills were no where near what they are today, they were smaller and they were never trained for speed.
The 89 Hawks would put aup an account of themselves beacaues they are one of the all time great teams but they would be pretty easily beaten.
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Except now the guy kicking to Jarman has 3 guys on him and is being forced onto his wrong side and tackled as he kicks it (and his skill level is pretty average anyway), and Jarman has to deal with his man bodying him out and another guy coming in as the chop out, and if the ball hits the ground, the Melbourne players area already all over it. If Jarman does get the ball, he looks up and there are two guys on Dunstall plus a zone set up everywhere he might like to lead, with a 202cm 105kg ruckman sitting in his leading space in the corridor.
It was quick for the time. Compared to today's footy it's a snails pace and the skills are deplorable.
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