Hawthorn - four peat?

[South of the Yarra]

What a load of rot. In Collingwood's case "second chance" was being beaten, then sitting on its haunches for a couple of weeks until grand final day. In Hawthorn's case it was being beaten then playing two matches, one involving an interstate trip, then entering the grand final (all three matches without a week off). Quite a different type of "second chance"! If Hawthorn had had Collingwood's type of second chance they would have pulverised their opposition by 200+ points.

Exactly the same, a top team being rewarded with a second chance. Actually hawthorn weren't a top team. Fancy a system so soft that a team not finishing top gets a second chance. God some teams get easy Premierships.

 

[Procrastinator35]

A corkie and a hammy, then a string of fringe players.

Who else apart from Gunston missed the PF?

We're the Hawks missing any best22 in the 2014 and 2015 GFs??

Judd was unlucky to do his knee, the Hawks were lucky that there injury crisis in 2014 occurred in June-July and not late Aug-Septber.

In 2012, both Goo & Whitey were top 12 & missed the GF, with Podge & Cyril carrying bad injuries & shouldn't have played.

It's no co-incidence that said injury crisis in 2014, happened in a 2 week period, on the back of 3x6 day breaks on heavy, rain-sodden grounds & to most of our senior players.

That was by far & away the worse schedule fixture ever....Fortunately it happened in round 7 & 8, so we had ample time in which to recover, given our excellent start to the year!

 

[doppleganger]

In 2012, both Goo & Whitey were top 12 & missed the GF, with Podge & Cyril carrying bad injuries & shouldn't have played.

It's no co-incidence that said injury crisis in 2014, happened in a 2 week period, on the back of 3x6 day breaks on heavy, rain-sodden grounds & to most of our senior players.

That was by far & away the worse schedule fixture ever....Fortunately it happened in round 7 & 8, so we had ample time in which to recover, given our excellent start to the year!

So you agree with me.

Bit of bad luck in 12 conspired against the Hawks, since then hv very much lucky to hv a full list in September.

 

[Procrastinator35]

So you agree with me.

Bit of bad luck in 12 conspired against the Hawks, since then hv very much lucky to hv a full list in September.

NO....Never said that.

I said we learnt from our mistakes in 2011 & 2012 to better manage our players in guarding against fatigue-related soft-tissue injuries via squad rotations....In so doing, giving ourselves the best chance of having a fully fit & healthy squad from which to choose for the business end of the season.

In 1971 we lost Peter Knights in the 2nd Semi final....We coped with it.
In 1978 we lost David O'Halloran, also in the 2nd semi....A young Dipper came in & took his spot & was close to best on ground next to Matthews.
In 1983 we lost Buckenara to a knee inside the first 10 minutes....We coped.
In 1989 we lost Tony Hall...We coped.

 

[doppleganger]

NO....Never said that.

I said we learnt from our mistakes in 2011 & 2012 to better manage our players in guarding against fatigue-related soft-tissue injuries via squad rotations....In so doing, giving ourselves the best chance of having a fully fit & healthy squad from which to choose for the business end of the season.

In 1971 we lost Peter Knights in the 2nd Semi final....We coped with it.
In 1978 we lost David O'Halloran, also in the 2nd semi....A young Dipper came in & took his spot & was close to best on ground next to Matthews.
In 1983 we lost Buckenara to a knee inside the first 10 minutes....We coped.
In 1989 we lost Tony Hall...We coped.

Yet in 2014 you were still hit by an injury crisis!? Just lucky it happened in June instead of September.

LoL at you rattling off events from the 70s as if they hv any relevance to clarkson's Hawks!!

In 2001 you were Goldspinked!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yet in 2014 you were still hit by an injury crisis!? Just lucky it happened in June instead of September.

LoL at you rattling off events from the 70s as if they hv any relevance to clarkson's Hawks!!

In 2001 you were Goldspinked!

Just offering some examples of how teams can still win premierships, even when losing star players to injury.

Also....I believe the correct technical term is GOLD-SPANKED!

 

[Spook]

So you agree with me.

Bit of bad luck in 12 conspired against the Hawks, since then hv very much lucky to hv a full list in September.

Yes for sure. We all agree that to win a flag you need to have luck with injuries and luck with many other things. I am sure that most Hawks supporters agree that even though we have had certain injuries and issues in the last 4 seasons we have been lucky and fortunate that many other things went our way; which has to to win a premiership in a competition as tight at the AFL.

 

[Spook]

Just offering some examples of how teams can still win premierships, even when losing star players to injury.

Also....I believe the correct technical term is GOLD-SPANKED!

Freo last year losing both Johnson and McPharlin prior to finals is a great example that injuries to a certain combination of players can serverly dent your chances. And Hawks threpeat after drafting Lake and Frawley just goes to show how important key pos backs are to your chances.

 

[DT2000]

Only one side has achieved the four peat in the history of the VFL/AFL.

Should the Hawks salute in 2016, they would have a great case to be considered the best team of all time.

How do you rate their chances?

It's not a three-peat, it is a two-peat. The first win (of the three) is not a repeat so they have only repeated twice, not three times.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Freo last year losing both Johnson and McPharlin prior to finals is a great example that injuries to a certain combination of players can serverly dent your chances. And Hawks threpeat after drafting Lake and Frawley just goes to show how important key pos backs are to your chances.

Absolutely....A key reason for regretting the loss of Lake for 2016....When you consider also how admirably the Eagles coped all year after having lost both Brown & McKenzie, it's not hard to see how fortunate we've been...Though I'm a firm believer & staunch advocate of the motto: You make your own luck.....That's why you have a squad of 46 players. Our squad this year was perfectly balanced....That was planned through fore-thought....As too was our targeting of experienced role-players in the 4 year-compromised drafts....Yet opposition posters have the gall & temerity to criticize us for such strategic acumen.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

A corkie and a hammy, then a string of fringe players.


Who else apart from Gunston missed the PF?

We're the Hawks missing any best22 in the 2014 and 2015 GFs??

Judd was unlucky to do his knee, the Hawks were lucky that there injury crisis in 2014 occurred in June-July and not late Aug-Septber.

Most teams that cop an injury crisis in June- July aren't good enough to make the top 4... Reality is the top 3 in this years B&F count Gibson, Rioli & Mitchell all missed 8+ games in 2014..... what a team.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Probably a valid point. 1/3rd of the hawks 22 on GF day were players recruited from other clubs.


Gunston
Hale
Gibson
Mcevoy
Lake
Frawley
Burgoyne

1/3rd of that list however were not needed/wanted by their clubs.

 

[DarkSaint]

Think next year will be the closest season to date. I can see all the top 8 sides being seperated by 2 or so wins and % will play a large part in ladder positions.

 

[doppleganger]

Most teams that cop an injury crisis in June- July aren't good enough to make the top 4... Reality is the top 3 in this years B&F count Gibson, Rioli & Mitchell all missed 8+ games in 2014..... what a team.

Absolutely true, Hawks a champion team and you make your own luck and all that.

All I was saying that despite the brilliant man management, 2014 was still littered with injury, just lucky that it happened in June and the players were fit, fresh and hungry come September.

A guy like WhiteX was terribly unlucky with injury, he wasn't poorly managed.

Whilst other teams sit back and ponder what ifs, Hawks supporters get to pick one of three dvd's to chuck on!!

History is written by the Victors, and the Hawks have plenty of stories to tell

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Sometimes we under sell our achievements of Collingwood from 27-30 especially the 1929 season. Not sure if our younger generation realise how incredible it was to go through a home and away season undefeated. We won games at away grounds that were inhospitable and extremely hard to win at. This included wins at Glenferrie Oval, Corio Oval, Arden St Oval, Junction Oval, Windy Hill, Punt Rd Oval, Lake Oval, Brunswick Oval and MCG.
Carlton who finished second in H and A dropped games at Vic Park, Punt Rd and Princess Park. Richmond who finished 3rd after H and A dropped games at Vic Park, Lake Oval, MCG, Punt Rd Oval and Corio Oval.

Unless you have sat in the outer at some of these grounds or ones similar then you won't understand what a remarkable achievement it is to do what our team did. Never ever under sell that achievement.

You cant seriously rate a win at Glenferrie in 1929.
Hawthorn entered comp in 1925 and didnt win a game for about 40 years!

 

[doppleganger]

You cant seriously rate a win at Glenferrie in 1929.
Hawthorn entered comp in 1925 and didnt win a game for about 40 years!

Collingwood has a better win % at Glenferrie than at VicPark!!

 

[South of the Yarra]

You cant seriously rate a win at Glenferrie in 1929.
Hawthorn entered comp in 1925 and didnt win a game for about 40 years!

Just like you cant rate a win against Brisbane in 2015 at Aurora. Hawthorn did win 3 of their 4 winning games at Glennferrie.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Just like you cant rate a win against Brisbane in 2015 at Aurora. Hawthorn did win 3 of their 4 winning games at Glennferrie.

We haven't played at Glennferrie for over 40 years now....In fact, 11 of our premierships have eventuated since we stopped playing there....Our move to Princes Park in 1974, culminated with the arrival of the most successful era in our history in delivering over 6 premiership cups.

Something else to blame/hate Carlton for!....However, we thank them.

Compare & contrast both Hawthorn & Collingwood's win/losses against each other from 1974 onward....It makes for illuminating reading.

 

[TyHawk]

Yet in 2014 you were still hit by an injury crisis!? Just lucky it happened in June instead of September.

LoL at you rattling off events from the 70s as if they hv any relevance to clarkson's Hawks!!

In 2001 you were Goldspinked!

Threepeat though.

 

[TyHawk]

Absolutely true, Hawks a champion team and you make your own luck and all that.

All I was saying that despite the brilliant man management, 2014 was still littered with injury, just lucky that it happened in June and the players were fit, fresh and hungry come September.

A guy like WhiteX was terribly unlucky with injury, he wasn't poorly managed.

Whilst other teams sit back and ponder what ifs, Hawks supporters get to pick one of three dvd's to chuck on!!

History is written by the Victors, and the Hawks have plenty of stories to tell

Sorry but I believe with THAT many games missed between Cyril, Mitchell, Gibson, lake and Stratton, Hawthron shouldn't have been able to win 17 games for the H&A season! And be very underdone come September due to lack of game time.

 

[Samthegun]

Exactly the same, a top team being rewarded with a second chance. Actually hawthorn weren't a top team. Fancy a system so soft that a team not finishing top gets a second chance. God some teams get easy Premierships.

Except in Collingwood's case it wasn't a "second chance." It was a red carpet straight through to the grand final. (Ref. 1929). Why should a team get rewarded by entry straight into the big dance (with a week off) when they actually lose in the opening round of the finals? Soft system indeed that allows a finalist to only play two finals, lose one and still win the premiership. Not that I could be bothered looking, but I'm pretty sure they changed this system for the very reason that it was soft.

Weighing everything up, I would probably only rate Collingwood's 4-peat slightly ahead of a modern day B2B. I wouldn't even rate it higher than Geelong's dominance of 2007 - 2011.

 

[Samthegun]

Perhaps

But its all relative

We would have got the advantage in 2012/13 but would have been in a significantly weaker position in 2008, 2014/15

In what sense? I think you're getting my post mixed up with the other guy's post.

 

[Samthegun]

Why would a team who finished H&A in 3rd get the same benefit as a team who finished H&A in 1st?

A 1929 1st is in no way equivalent to a 2015 first. 1929 was a twelve team competition with three dud teams perennially at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[doppleganger]

A 1929 1st is in no way equivalent to a 2015 first. 1929 was a twelve team competition with three dud teams perennially at the bottom of the ladder.

You Hawks fans have officially lost the plot...1st is no longer 1st??

I'd rather my side be ranked 1th in the Power Rankings anyway!

 

[Tiger08]

At some point everyone will realise how much advantage they get from all their left footers and taking the ball clockwise around the ground. Then they might do something about it.

No.. Great team. Great club. If the bodies hold up they are every chance next year.