Preview Hawthorn v Bulldogs, 3 August 2014, 3.20pm @ York Park

[Thaihawk]

A win to the Blues tonight and victory over the Bulldogs will put Fremantle 2 wins and % behinds us with 4 games to go. Will be very tough to finish above us in that scenario even if they beat us in Perth.

gave this a like, but wanted to give it a hate also, as I hate that "C" word. When I last checked ti in my dictionary, the definition started with, ..a brown paper bag full of bank notes ...

 

[Great 2008]

I have stayed out of the Schoey as a defender debate. IMO he is solid without being spectacular. I would still rather see him running amok around half forward (as he is a beautiful long kick) but we never seem to have that luxury.

Not sure about this weekends conditions either. We are currently having an entire winters worth of rain dropped in a week.

 

[Hodginator]

I have stayed out of the Schoey as a defender debate. IMO he is solid without being spectacular. I would still rather see him running amok around half forward (as he is a beautiful long kick) but we never seem to have that luxury.

Not sure about this weekends conditions either. We are currently having an entire winters worth of rain dropped in a week.

The conditions v GC were pretty ordinary down there as well.

 

[Taskmaster]

Again, this is incorrect. Cheney had the unfortunate match-up of playing on Hawkins. But nope, it's all Schoenmakers' fault yet again. Keep trying, kid. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

If you read my post I am not bashing Shoey, f..k me. Its just my opinion. And others, not just me have the same opinion, But obviously you know everything and anything about the game and everyone needs to shut the f..k up. Grow up clown!!!!

 

[Taskmaster]

That's way too much explaining which proves the point Schoenmakers ain't a very good defender! It's pretty simple really, he continually needs the third man up or he's cooked ( we are talking about high balls against monsters)! Tippett carves him up more often than not, don't just give Goals as evidence, when observing Forwards versus Defenders, the scoring shots should be counted and not just the goals FfS!
Anyway spoke to Brian Lake just yesterday at Broady Shopping Centre and he reckons he is ready to go and that he is counting days till he's back! I told him the 4 week suspension was a tad harsh, he kinda agreed but also said " that's what you get for choking someone lololo". Yep, can't wait for Lake to be back and I couldn't give a stuff whether Spangher or Schoenmakers are the ones sacrificed.

Watch what you say TyHawk. Some here, may get upset with your opinion.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

But again, Tippett had 6 marks for the game, Schoenmakers had 4. At least one of those Tippett marks wasn't even on Schoenmakers as he was responsible for the turnover further up the ground.

So we've established Tippett had four shots on goal and 6 marks. Definitely gets the three votes in my book!

I also find it kinda funny that you're trying to blame Schoenmakers for a forward not being able to convert his shots. Kinda proves my point, doesn't it? Ryan is to blame for everything.

 

[Brishawk]

Shoey is the only defender now that has me (and all those around me watching the games) thinking (and saying it aloud!) the following:-

1) When the ball is kicked to Shoey one on one with any forward, "oh no, a mark and goal coming up",
2) When Shoey has the ball in his hands in the D50, "oh no, don't get caught with HTB".

I don't spend a lot of time in looking for stats but when you see and say these things then just goes to show how he is performing, in our opinion.

Have you considered that your perception doesn't seem to match the reality and it is causing you to enjoy football less than you should?

 

[Gold Member]

Yep, can't wait for Lake to be back and I couldn't give a stuff whether Spangher or Schoenmakers are the ones sacrificed.

Hard to like a post when it finishes in a puddle of warm dribble.

 

[purringgirl]

The conditions v GC were pretty ordinary down there as well.

Oh dear god I hope not... that game was arctic. I'm going to the game in Tassie, just checked the weather, cloud increasing and 12... please no rain.

Hey guys how much should you expect to pay for tickets at Aurora? I got 2 at $33.60 (each) seems like a MASSIVE rip off (Northern stand)

 

[Brishawk]

That's way too much explaining which proves the point Schoenmakers ain't a very good defender! It's pretty simple really, he continually needs the third man up or he's cooked ( we are talking about high balls against monsters)! Tippett carves him up more often than not, don't just give Goals as evidence, when observing Forwards versus Defenders, the scoring shots should be counted and not just the goals FfS!
Anyway spoke to Brian Lake just yesterday at Broady Shopping Centre and he reckons he is ready to go and that he is counting days till he's back! I told him the 4 week suspension was a tad harsh, he kinda agreed but also said " that's what you get for choking someone lololo". Yep, can't wait for Lake to be back and I couldn't give a stuff whether Spangher or Schoenmakers are the ones sacrificed.

Of the two of us I am the only one who has posted any evidence whatsoever. How about you go through the stats and point out to me something that shows Tippett monsters Shoey? How about you compare Shoey's record to other key defenders of his age when all these monster forwards were allegedly taking him apart? If you are going to claim a 9 disposal, 2 goal (only 1 of which was directly against Shoey), 6 mark game is carving up the key defender then by all means demonstrate that other key defenders are not equally 'carved up' by Tippett - that would at least provide some context.

 

[IdiotBox]

Simpkin has been surprisingly really good recently, provides a link in our push forward and also can chip in with a few running goals, i believe he got 2 against adelaide?.......anyways he has been decent and will only go out if the coaches believe Sewell holds more importance in a game....

I thought Simpkin laid some really impressive crucial ball-and-all tackles in the last quarter just when the $yds were trying to regain the momentum. He stays for now.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Of the two of us I am the only one who has posted any evidence whatsoever. How about you go through the stats and point out to me something that shows Tippett monsters Shoey? How about you compare Shoey's record to other key defenders of his age when all these monster forwards were allegedly taking him apart? If you are going to claim a 9 disposal, 2 goal (only 1 of which was directly against Shoey), 6 mark game is carving up the key defender then by all means demonstrate that other key defenders are not equally 'carved up' by Tippett - that would at least provide some context.

It certainly makes roughy's 4 goal, 8 scoring shot, 18 possession, 7 mark game on all australian Ted Richards look pretty good.

 

[B&GBlood]

Give Woody a full game in the middle. It was a very strange choice making him the sub as he was too slow around the ground,and three touches isn't a quality sub's output.

Woody made some telling contests that did not register a possession.

 

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

Shoey is the only defender now that has me (and all those around me watching the games) thinking (and saying it aloud!) the following:-

1) When the ball is kicked to Shoey one on one with any forward, "oh no, a mark and goal coming up",
2) When Shoey has the ball in his hands in the D50, "oh no, don't get caught with HTB".

I don't spend a lot of time in looking for stats but when you see and say these things then just goes to show how he is performing, in our opinion.

What can I say - feeling is mutual. I feel very nervous when he is one on one. I don't think this is working unless he finds some space in forward pocket. Even there the "HTB" worry is there. I still wonder what happened to him after he got injured last year?

 

[bris tarangau]

Have you considered that your perception doesn't seem to match the reality and it is causing you to enjoy football less than you should?

Perceptions does add to the enjoyment of watching Hawks play.

 

[WWSD]

Does Will Langford get the job on Ryan Griffen or Tom Liberatore? Would like us to have a player to also tag Jackson Macrae. I reckon this match won't be a one-sided game. This time last year we only won by 19 points. I'd be happy with a win and no injuries.

 

[becalm]

The last time anyone kicked 3+ goals on Shoey was round 3 2013. Before that you have to go back to 2012 finals series in which Cloke (6) and Tippet (4) kicked goals on him. I went through most of 2012 and couldn't see anyone back to back big bags. When is this mythical time you speak of when Shoey was getting bags of goals kicked on him 'week after week'? For the record, Hawkins has kicked 3+ goals on him twice (both in 2012). Cloke has done it a few times but Shoey has also beaten him too (e.g. rd 17 2012 where Cloke kicked 1 goal and round 1 2012 he kept Cloke to 2 goals). And considering Collingwood kick to Cloke about 35 times a game its no great shame to have goals kicked against you (see Lake in 2014). Tippett was held to 2 goals in round 3 2012 and Shoey had 22 disposals so its no like he never beat him either. In fact against Shoey, Tippett has kicked 1, 2, 4, 2. In their past 4 meetings. So we can say it is likely the 4 goals was the anomaly given it is nearly double the average. To put this in perspective Shoey was 21 in 2012. Michael Talia (who everyone thinks we should have drafted) is 21 and can't get a game for the bulldogs even though every B-grade or better full forward kicks a bag against them. Expectations have been way ahead of reality for Shoey even though by league standards he was performing very well at a young age for a KPD.

Yeh some people get an impression which is not supported by facts. Expect him to beat Cloke 35 out of 35 times even though the ball is being kicked to Cloke.

 

[MrPremiership]

every club needs a whipping boy, and with the retirements and delistings of Josh Thurgood and Tom Murphy, unfortuntely Schoe has become that player

 

[badgrill]

A win to the Blues tonight and victory over the Bulldogs will put Fremantle 2 wins and % behinds us with 4 games to go. Will be very tough to finish above us in that scenario even if they beat us in Perth.

Whooh! I liked that then just as quickly had to Unlike it as I felt diiiiirty.

 

[becalm]

I thought Simpkin laid some really impressive crucial ball-and-all tackles in the last quarter just when the $yds were trying to regain the momentum. He stays for now.

Never been a fan of Simpkin, but his job on Malceski was very good. I think that performance makes him more flexible and therefore must enhance his chances to stay in the side when more players become available for selection.

 

[Gene Simmons]

If we get Lake back in to take the #1 forward, Shoey is more than capable of taking #2 forward and Gibbo assisting as 3rd up.

Whooh! I liked that then just as quickly had to Unlike it as I felt diiiiirty.

I'm gunna be barracking for Carlton tonight, Essendon tomorrow, Collingwood Sunday... bad things do come in three!

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Shoey's biggest downfall as a defender, is that he is too worried where his man is when the ball is coming in, rather than reading the fall of the ball and putting himself in the way of the ball and his opponent. Thats the most frustrating thing.

And cant agree more with the above. Spang has had to do it without the help of Lake and Gib. Whereas Shoey still leaks too many goals with those 2 boys in the side. Teams play through him ie Geelong!

And for all the air fairy supporters, this is not a Shoey bashing, just stating some things that he can improve on, IF, he is going to become a good defender.

I still think he is better suited up forward.

When was the last time Schoey played on Hawkins?

Earlier this year Hawkins smashed Cheney

I think it was round 1, 2013 where Hawkins kicked a massive 2.1.

Or are we talking about pre knee reco?

I'm the first to admit that Schoenmakers looks hopeless and gets lost - but across the course of the game and season the numbers are stacking in his favour.

Ugly but effective.

 

[Hodginator]

I think Kelly will be named on the extended bench tonight and then cut back to emergency tomorrow night.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Does Will Langford get the job on Ryan Griffen or Tom Liberatore? Would like us to have a player to also tag Jackson Macrae. I reckon this match won't be a one-sided game. This time last year we only won by 19 points. I'd be happy with a win and no injuries.

Yep....In fact if you watch the replay of that game it wasn't until after 3 quarter time that we broke the shackles. With Simpkin coming on as the sub & being directly responsible for both winning the ball out of the centre & for all of the 4 goals which followed in a 7 minute period to decide the result.

 

[dipper86]

When was the last time Schoey played on Hawkins?

Earlier this year Hawkins smashed Cheney

I think it was round 1, 2013 where Hawkins kicked a massive 2.1.

Or are we talking about pre knee reco?

I'm the first to admit that Schoenmakers looks hopeless and gets lost - but across the course of the game and season the numbers are stacking in his favour.

Ugly but effective.

You have to admit.....in the second quarter some ugly instances in Shoey's game reared its ugly head, one out Shoey vs Tippett, midfield getting beat. It was an absolute fine line between Tippett ripping the game apart in a 10 minute period, sometimes that's all it takes. Thankfully Tippets kicking for goal rivals James Manson's. Once our midfield controlled the contest Shoey was safe.......but, can we rely on our midfield dominating the play for 4 quarters. unrealistic, Shoey will get isolated.

Now if Lake doesn't play and Shoey marks up on Hawkins who I consider the strongest power forward in the game, he will be molested and rag dolled if Geelong get enough ball for a period of time in the contest. All it took last time was a 5 minute period by Hawkins to blow us out of the water in the last quarter earlier this year. Cheeney who is undersized, yet has a better ability at reading the play and understanding of how to use his body better than Shoey currently.

I'd be extremely nervous if Hawkins lines up on Shoey.